Vaccine

what-happened said:
nahh, it's the truth. They've completely lost control of the narrative and are no longer a respected source of info for covid.. Their credibility has taken a hit. As a casual consumer of info, you are likely well served by the CDC.
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I can see several untruths in your statement. Would you like to try again?
 
Desert Hound said:
In the end it makes little difference.

Unless a covid variation comes out that is very deadly, people are moving on.

We are done with masks, distancing, shutting stuff down, etc.

It simply doesn't work.

It is simple. If you want the vax have at it. If others don't, it isn't on you.

It is why despite a NY mandate on masks, etc the gov said she will not enforce it.
It is why CO said, ok we are done.
It is why the Biden admin is now starting to talk about switching the messaging to now we have to live with the virus.
You will see more government entities take this position.

People will follow along for a short period of time various restrictions.

2 yrs into this they will not. Especially because the vast VAST majority of the population has little to no risk.
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Here is a main CNN contributor starting to realize REALITY is different from what he hoped for. When will dad bow down to reality?

Chris Cillizza

@ChrisCillizza
I've been thinking a lot about why the latest surge has hit me so hard and I think it's because I have been fooling myself -- to some extent -- for the last 18 months

@ChrisCillizza
I told myself that the reason to get vaccinated (and boosted) was a) to avoid serious illness if I got Covid and b) to keep myself from passing the virus along to my mom (and other more vulnerable people)

That was what all the experts said the vaccine did. It lessened our chances of severe infection, hospitalization and death.

But, deep down, I think I believed that being vaccinated (and boosted) would keep me from getting Covid-19 AT ALL.

Why? Not sure, honestly. But I spent the better part of a year waiting for a vaccine and doing everything I could to keep my family from getting the virus. It's hard to just turn that switch off.

I think that's why yesterday -- when it felt like every person I knew was either being diagnosed with Covid or had been exposed to it -- hit me so hard.

Because the reality is -- and has always been even if I didn't realize it -- that the vaccines don't, really, prevent you from getting the virus. Or, at least, they don't guarantee it won't happen.

My friend @cwarzel described the view of many people he knew as "chill" about the reality that lots and lots of us (maybe all?) are going to get Covid at some point in the not-too-distant future.

I'm, um, not in the "chill" stage. But, I at least am realizing how badly I miscalculated what the vaccine means and what it is supposed to do.
According to all the available data, it's doing its job (preventing serious illness and death among those infected). But it can never do what I had hoped: Ensure no one I loved will become infected.

My work now is getting used to that reality. I realize I am way behind lots of other people in doing that. But, you have to start somewhere.

--
And dad and others? This is what is starting to happen all over the place. People are starting to realize this is here to stay and once they come to that reality, they will not put up with restrictions much longer.
 
Desert Hound said:
Here is a main CNN contributor starting to realize REALITY is different from what he hoped for. When will dad bow down to reality?

Chris Cillizza

@ChrisCillizza
I've been thinking a lot about why the latest surge has hit me so hard and I think it's because I have been fooling myself -- to some extent -- for the last 18 months

@ChrisCillizza
I told myself that the reason to get vaccinated (and boosted) was a) to avoid serious illness if I got Covid and b) to keep myself from passing the virus along to my mom (and other more vulnerable people)

That was what all the experts said the vaccine did. It lessened our chances of severe infection, hospitalization and death.

But, deep down, I think I believed that being vaccinated (and boosted) would keep me from getting Covid-19 AT ALL.

Why? Not sure, honestly. But I spent the better part of a year waiting for a vaccine and doing everything I could to keep my family from getting the virus. It's hard to just turn that switch off.

I think that's why yesterday -- when it felt like every person I knew was either being diagnosed with Covid or had been exposed to it -- hit me so hard.

Because the reality is -- and has always been even if I didn't realize it -- that the vaccines don't, really, prevent you from getting the virus. Or, at least, they don't guarantee it won't happen.

My friend @cwarzel described the view of many people he knew as "chill" about the reality that lots and lots of us (maybe all?) are going to get Covid at some point in the not-too-distant future.

I'm, um, not in the "chill" stage. But, I at least am realizing how badly I miscalculated what the vaccine means and what it is supposed to do.
According to all the available data, it's doing its job (preventing serious illness and death among those infected). But it can never do what I had hoped: Ensure no one I loved will become infected.

My work now is getting used to that reality. I realize I am way behind lots of other people in doing that. But, you have to start somewhere.

--
And dad and others? This is what is starting to happen all over the place. People are starting to realize this is here to stay and once they come to that reality, they will not put up with restrictions much longer.
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I'm sure a lot of people feel the same way. While I don't think the media and politicians explicitly stated that you can't get the virus if your vaccinated they certainly led you to believe that it would be rare. Also by mandating the vaccine they gave you the impression that the vaccine was very effective against infection...because you can't spread Covid if you don't get Covid. The basis for the mandates was to prevent community spread which we've now found that the vaccine is ineffective against community spread.
 
watfly said:
I'm sure a lot of people feel the same way. While I don't think the media and politicians explicitly stated that you can't get the virus if your vaccinated they certainly led you to believe that it would be rare. Also by mandating the vaccine they gave you the impression that the vaccine was very effective against infection...because you can't spread Covid if you don't get Covid. The basis for the mandates was to prevent community spread which we've now found that the vaccine is ineffective against community spread.
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What definition of "ineffective" are you using there?
 
Hüsker Dü said:
Gee who framed it like that for you?
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Interesting statement. Why would I need someone to frame it that way for me? Unlike you, or at least the perception of you, I am a skeptic when it comes to messaging from our government entities. I prefer conduct my own analysis and seek out other experts and compare. Don't you remember 2 weeks? How about 4th of July cookouts. I could go on and on.
 
what-happened said:
Does it stop community spread? Are the NFL and NHL not communities? Are you a pfizer/moderna investor?
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It has been demonstrated that vaccines are effective at reducing the rate of community spread and probably are also effective at reducing the total number of cases (I will leave the statistical work on that point to someone more inclined than I am for that work).
 
what-happened said:
Interesting statement. Why would I need someone to frame it that way for me? Unlike you, or at least the perception of you, I am a skeptic when it comes to messaging from our government entities. I prefer conduct my own analysis and seek out other experts and compare. Don't you remember 2 weeks? How about 4th of July cookouts. I could go on and on.
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What does any of that have to do with raw numbers from CDC?
 
espola said:
It has been demonstrated that vaccines are effective at reducing the rate of community spread and probably are also effective at reducing the total number of cases (I will leave the statistical work on that point to someone more inclined than I am for that work).
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It has also been demonstrated to not stop community spread. Is the benchmark reduction of total cases or minimizing adverse disease outcomes? Now you are sounding like the CDC. Can't we just say the vaccines suck and only those who are vulnerable should consider taking a vaccine?
 
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