Vaccine

watfly said:
I'll rely on my doctor, thanks. There are many ways to skin this cat, we shouldn't be forced by the government to take their imperfect treatment.

Look on one far side you have those that are afraid and/or government reliant that will do what the government instructs them to do pretty much no questions asked. On the other far end you have the anti-government types that regardless of how good it may be they aren't going to do it because the recommendation simply came from the government. Most people are in the middle and weigh the cost-benefits personally but in many cases community wise as well. They require a compelling reason like effectiveness and alternatives to follow the governments recommendation. If it was that great, you would only have the anti-government types avoiding the vaccine. A red flag gets raised when you have to coerce, bribe and mandate to force someone to get the vaccine.
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Misinformation and bold face lies can persuade many in the middle. That’s how trump got elected, that’s why people don’t trust one flank of the media because the other flank told them not to, that they were the sole purveyors of the truth (silly ain’t it?), it’s called propaganda at least it use to be called that, now it’s just how we are being ‘informed’ in many cases . . . but hey, we bite, they feed.
 
Hüsker Dü said:
Misinformation and bold face lies can persuade many in the middle. That’s how trump got elected, that’s why people don’t trust one flank of the media because the other flank told them not to, that they were the sole purveyors of the truth (silly ain’t it?), it’s called propaganda at least it use to be called that, now it’s just how we are being ‘informed’ in many cases . . . but hey, we bite, they feed.
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Your right:
www.reuters.com

Democrat Biden warns against rushing out coronavirus vaccine, says Trump cannot be trusted

Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden on Wednesday rejected President Donald Trump's charge that he is spreading fear about the safety of a potential coronavirus vaccine, urging Trump to defer to scientists and not rush its rollout.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com

Not justifying it but plenty of misinformation from both sides. Some wasn't so much blatant misinformation as unsupported speculation like CDC saying vaccination = no mask.

Not a Trump guy so you're barking up the wrong tree again. BTW, I don't think Trump won the election as much as Hilary lost the election. Unfortunately our options were terrible. The fact that he won illustrates how bad a candidate she was.
 
watfly said:
I'll rely on my doctor, thanks. There are many ways to skin this cat, we shouldn't be forced by the government to take their imperfect treatment.

Look on one far side you have those that are afraid and/or government reliant that will do what the government instructs them to do pretty much no questions asked. On the other far end you have the anti-government types that regardless of how good it may be they aren't going to do it because the recommendation simply came from the government. Most people are in the middle and weigh the cost-benefits personally but in many cases community wise as well. They require a compelling reason like effectiveness and alternatives to follow the governments recommendation. If it was that great, you would only have the anti-government types avoiding the vaccine. A red flag gets raised when you have to coerce, bribe and mandate to force someone to get the vaccine.
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You skipped the role of deliberate disinformation.

It’s very easy to take a rare side effect and make it sound huge. Just talk about the effect, and remove any numbers which tell you probability.

Look at Hound’s post above. A ton of fear mongering, but not a single word telling you how common it is. The actual numbers are around 3 cases per million people vaccinated. Even that was too much for CDC, so they are recommending women choose Moderna or Pfizer. But, the author wants to convince you that the vaccines are unsafe. So he omits the probabilities entirely.

This stunt is bipartisan. NYT did the same thing with long covid among teenagers. Talk up the effect, ignore the probabilities. Make it sound unsafe.

As a result, Republicans vastly overestimate the risks of the vaccine, and Democrats vastly overestimate the risks of the virus. Neither side ends up well informed.
 
CDC advisory panel recommends Pfizer and Modern vaccines over Johnson & Johnson
The recommendation comes after nine deaths linked to Johnson & Johnson's vaccine
 
watfly said:
Your right:
www.reuters.com

Democrat Biden warns against rushing out coronavirus vaccine, says Trump cannot be trusted

Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden on Wednesday rejected President Donald Trump's charge that he is spreading fear about the safety of a potential coronavirus vaccine, urging Trump to defer to scientists and not rush its rollout.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com

Not justifying it but plenty of misinformation from both sides. Some wasn't so much blatant misinformation as unsupported speculation like CDC saying vaccination = no mask.

Not a Trump guy so you're barking up the wrong tree again. BTW, I don't think Trump won the election as much as Hilary lost the election. Unfortunately our options were terrible. The fact that he won illustrates how bad a candidate she was.
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Agree with most of that, but yes evolution is inevitable.
 
The J&J vaccine might be on the chopping block....I also don't under the rationale if blood clots are such a concern, why are they pulling the J&J shot, but not restricting the mRNA vaccines in the under 30 males?

www.npr.org

CDC narrows use of J&J vaccine due to concerns about rare blood clots

The agency implemented experts' advice because of a rare and sometimes fatal blood-clotting problem known as TTS. More than 16 million people in the U.S. have received a shot of the J&J vaccine.
www.npr.org www.npr.org
 
Grace T. said:
The J&J vaccine might be on the chopping block....I also don't under the rationale if blood clots are such a concern, why are they pulling the J&J shot, but not restricting the mRNA vaccines in the under 30 males?

www.npr.org

CDC narrows use of J&J vaccine due to concerns about rare blood clots

The agency implemented experts' advice because of a rare and sometimes fatal blood-clotting problem known as TTS. More than 16 million people in the U.S. have received a shot of the J&J vaccine.
www.npr.org www.npr.org
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p.s. small editorial....if they do pull the J&J or severely restrict it, I think it will be the final nail in the credibility of the roughly 1/3 of the public that is now leaning skeptical of the public health advisors. Coupled with the mask story from the Atlantic, it will have burned the remaining good will of public health with the panic skeptical community (from my quick initial read of the twitter response). The question then is does it carry the middle 30%....it might.
 
dad4 said:
You skipped the role of deliberate disinformation.
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That's what our brains are for. I don't want the government deciphering the information for me. We live in a country that allows people to make bad decisions and then suffer the repercussions. Unfortunately that can result in collateral damage. Its an imperfect system. I get that you don't trust other people to make the right decisions, but that's how our country works. With freedom comes risks you assume as a citizen that you can't control. Your points aren't necessarily unreasonable on their face its just not "how things work" aka not reality. It seems your issue is more with how our country works than with any disinformation or anti-vaxxers.

We're all a product of our situation. You are dependent on the government for your livelihood, while I'm dependent on the freedoms of capitalism for mine. That tremendously shades our opinions. Selfishness is just a matter of perspective based upon what side of the fence you're standing.

This is going to be a wildly unpopular opinion, but misinformation for the most part is protected free speech. Its a slippery slope when we let a government, organization or communication platform determine what is misinformation or not. See Wuhan Lab Leak for example. Misinformation is most often in the eyes of the beholder.
 
watfly said:
That's what our brains are for. I don't want the government deciphering the information for me. We live in a country that allows people to make bad decisions and then suffer the repercussions. Unfortunately that can result in collateral damage. Its an imperfect system. I get that you don't trust other people to make the right decisions, but that's how our country works. With freedom comes risks you assume as a citizen that you can't control. Your points aren't necessarily unreasonable on their face its just not "how things work" aka not reality. It seems your issue is more with how our country works than with any disinformation or anti-vaxxers.

We're all a product of our situation. You are dependent on the government for your livelihood, while I'm dependent on the freedoms of capitalism for mine. That tremendously shades our opinions. Selfishness is just a matter of perspective based upon what side of the fence you're standing.

This is going to be a wildly unpopular opinion, but misinformation for the most part is protected free speech. Its a slippery slope when we let a government, organization or communication platform determine what is misinformation or not. See Wuhan Lab Leak for example. Misinformation is most often in the eyes of the beholder.
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Without the government you would be whittling wood.
 
dad4 said:
Even that was too much for CDC, so they are recommending women choose Moderna or Pfizer.
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It isn't fear mongering if the CDC says they recommend women choose another vaccine. Right? They appear concerned enough to recommend this group of people take a different drug.

And that is why they do long term studies before bringing drugs to the market. And it is precisely because of that unknown that makes it irresponsible to mandate someone to take a vaccine.
 
Hüsker Dü said:
Misinformation and bold face lies can persuade many in the middle. That’s how trump got elected, that’s why people don’t trust one flank of the media because the other flank told them not to, that they were the sole purveyors of the truth (silly ain’t it?), it’s called propaganda at least it use to be called that, now it’s just how we are being ‘informed’ in many cases . . . but hey, we bite, they feed.
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Your flank does not care about MisInformation, that is for sure
 
Desert Hound said:
It isn't fear mongering if the CDC says they recommend women choose another vaccine. Right? They appear concerned enough to recommend this group of people take a different drug.

And that is why they do long term studies before bringing drugs to the market. And it is precisely because of that unknown that makes it irresponsible to mandate someone to take a vaccine.
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Well, it's really worse than that since it looks like they are going at a minimum "prioritize" the other vaccines. Either they've allowed a dangerous drug to be out on the market for 12 months (in which case those people who said long term analysis was needed were right), or they are for various reasons trying to push people into not making a choice and only taking the mRNA vaccines (which BTW has been a key objection against people reluctant to jab their kids). They don't even realize what they are doing but it's becoming a S show of epic proportions as they torch the last of their credibility. When this is all over, there will be a portion of society that will want to tear the FDA and CDC to the ground and start from scratch.
 
Hüsker Dü said:
Misinformation and bold face lies can persuade many in the middle. That’s how trump got elected, that’s why people don’t trust one flank of the media because the other flank told them not to, that they were the sole purveyors of the truth (silly ain’t it?), it’s called propaganda at least it use to be called that, now it’s just how we are being ‘informed’ in many cases . . . but hey, we bite, they feed.
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Hüsker Dü said:
So for you it must be 100% full proof or you ain’t buying? Check, got it.
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Hüsker Dü said:
Why ask me? If it helps I’m in. I wear a helmet when I ride as well, always have.
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Hüsker Dü said:
Agree with most of that, but yes evolution is inevitable.
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The sicknesses/blisters you get from slinging the Democrats filthy water
must be atrocious.
 
watfly said:
I'd like to think I would be a hunter-gatherer and fishing for my next meal.
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I would be just find and dandy. I already have a cave I know of that you can only get to during really low tide. It's idea for this situation. I have wetsuit and spear and that's all one needs to catch fish. I guess we know what Husler and Dad and GG are afraid of. They need government so bad their willing to steal for it and lie through their teeth to keep government as their Papi.
 
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