Vaccine

dad4 said:
It’s in the second to last sentence.

Reading grace’s posts is such a hellscape.
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I stand corrected. My weak excuses are that I hadn't had my morning coffee yet and I was rushing to catch up on my wake-up reading because I had to pee.

I worked on communication radios and intercoms in my time in the Navy. I learned that sometimes the fault that caused a failure to comprehend a message was with the receiver, and sometimes with the sender.
 
espola said:
You're babbling.
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Babble I will, about the TRUTH.

Hey Adam Espola Schiff, when you're confronted with the TRUTH
you sidestep and proceed with more Lies.
Lucky for you that the Juicy Smollet Bathhouse Trial isn't on National
display via the Criminal News Network as the public would get to
witness real time how individuals such as YOU operate.
Tell the Forum some lies about your sordid past Adam Espola Schiff.
Both of You have the same issues with a Media suppressed lurid history.
 
thirteenknots said:
Babble I will, about the TRUTH.

Hey Adam Espola Schiff, when you're confronted with the TRUTH
you sidestep and proceed with more Lies.
Lucky for you that the Juicy Smollet Bathhouse Trial isn't on National
display via the Criminal News Network as the public would get to
witness real time how individuals such as YOU operate.
Tell the Forum some lies about your sordid past Adam Espola Schiff.
Both of You have the same issues with a Media suppressed lurid history.
Click to expand...

Admitting you have a problem is the first step to recovery, but it appears you have a long way to go.

Perhaps you can answer a question for me -- how many sockpuppet accounts does 4nos have?
 
dad4 said:
I fail to see how anything on social media qualifies as a “hellscape”.

Hellscape ought to refer to real world catastrophes. The eastern front in world war two was a hellscape, for example. Egghead wannabes arguing on twitter? That’s a tempest in a teapot, not a hellscape.
Click to expand...

From MPOV one of the more interesting exchanges in our little klatch. One thing is that just during the course of this pandemic a newer generation of researchers is using forums little twitter to post first views of near real time data concerning covid. The main thing is that its even a faster way to disseminate data than preprint servers. But the other thing is that they are doing so to counter active misrepresentation of their data in the infodemic. They are increasingly saying hey if its a fight we got to fight. Which I admire. But it feeds right into it as well. In what I looked at last night could I pull a post off, say, Florian Krammer's feed and set it up against a line in Phizer's press release and "two sets of experts, two sides, so believe whatever". Sure. It would be complete bullshit but easy to do. Of course I could just as easily set up metaphor against against metaphor and have a guy who looks like my ex-Hell's Angels biker uncle doing target practice with his 0.45 magnum long barrel. Empty milk jugs, one wrapped in diapers. Blows the first one water spraying everywhere. He says "that's a big wet covid sneeze." they he blows the wrapped one says "Mama says cover you mouth. Wear your fucking mask". That would be more fun actually but pushes buttons either way.

Virtual hellscape isn't real world hellscape yet, at least for us priveledged western countries. The citizens of someplace like Ukraine for example might have something to say about how actively manipulated online distortion campaigns can get real, real fast. But like I've said, consider two different maps posted on election night as the "real" thing. Simple extension of what is happening right now.
 
dad4 said:
I fail to see how anything on social media qualifies as a “hellscape”.

Hellscape ought to refer to real world catastrophes. The eastern front in world war two was a hellscape, for example. Egghead wannabes arguing on twitter? That’s a tempest in a teapot, not a hellscape.
Click to expand...

Hellscapes are in the eye of the beholder. Twitter most assuredly is a hellscape, at least as far as social media sites go. This subforum of the soccer forum comes pretty close to one too (minus EOTL its more of a purgatory). Time to brush up on some Milton.

dad4 said:
It’s in the second to last sentence.

Reading grace’s posts is such a hellscape.
Click to expand...

I like this. And you have the assurance from espola that since it's criticizing the post and not the speaker's character, it most assuredly is not an ad hominem.
 
EvilGoalie 21 said:
From MPOV one of the more interesting exchanges in our little klatch. One thing is that just during the course of this pandemic a newer generation of researchers is using forums little twitter to post first views of near real time data concerning covid. The main thing is that its even a faster way to disseminate data than preprint servers. But the other thing is that they are doing so to counter active misrepresentation of their data in the infodemic. They are increasingly saying hey if its a fight we got to fight. Which I admire. But it feeds right into it as well. In what I looked at last night could I pull a post off, say, Florian Krammer's feed and set it up against a line in Phizer's press release and "two sets of experts, two sides, so believe whatever". Sure. It would be complete bullshit but easy to do. Of course I could just as easily set up metaphor against against metaphor and have a guy who looks like my ex-Hell's Angels biker uncle doing target practice with his 0.45 magnum long barrel. Empty milk jugs, one wrapped in diapers. Blows the first one water spraying everywhere. He says "that's a big wet covid sneeze." they he blows the wrapped one says "Mama says cover you mouth. Wear your fucking mask". That would be more fun actually but pushes buttons either way.

Virtual hellscape isn't real world hellscape yet, at least for us priveledged western countries. The citizens of someplace like Ukraine for example might have something to say about how actively manipulated online distortion campaigns can get real, real fast. But like I've said, consider two different maps posted on election night as the "real" thing. Simple extension of what is happening right now.
Click to expand...

This is a very reasoned post. I like it a lot. The one thing, though, you are neglecting is there's a lot of money riding on the answer to the question. On the line are whether governments should keep pushing the 3rd booster, and an omicron booster as well (the sunk costs to which are rapidly going to begin to mount). 4 shots for every person are now on the table, and quite a big pot of money. For reference, again, see Squid Games, which I am convinced rather than a socialist anti-capitalist allegory, is really a big pharma one.
 
what-happened said:
How am i anti vax and anti mask? Or is that the royal you that you are referring to? What hard decisions? Like sending vulnerable people back into facilities that house vulnerable people? It's pandemic 101. Oh that's right, there were other facilities available that could have housed them. They were being provided by the orangy federal government. Politics trumped public health. Has nothing to do with anti vax, anti mask and everything to do with political idiots. Public health has become divisivie due to politics. You unfortnately are blinded by partisan headlights. Add to that your minimal understanding of publich health and medicine. Perfect setting for your U9 tantrums.
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When the pandemic hit NY, there was little to no knowledge about how impacted hospitals would become or how life threatening Covid was to any specific categories of persons. Within a week, NYC went from 20 to 500 people dying of Covid daily, and 1000 the following week. There was no telling at the time how bad it was going to get and it wasn't clear whether sending nursing home patients who did not need to be in the hospital anymore back to nursing homes where they might still spread it, or leave them in potentially overwhelmed hospitals where they might also spread it. Was it the wrong decision in retrospect? Yes, of course it was. Did they overestimate the ability of nursing homes to prevent internal spread among their residents? Yes. Did they end up being overly concerned about the risk to children and other healthy groups? Also yes. Was this decision "politicizing healthcare". Of course not.

Honestly, it's pretty crazy that even a feeble-minded person like yourself would assert that others are politicizing healthcare in the very same sentence in which you're claiming that it all started in NY and NJ. No, it didn't start with NY and NJ. Cuomo sending nursing home residents was not "politicizing" healthcare. "Politicizing healthcare" started when you and your other anti-mask/vax friends subsequently used a decision that ended up being the wrong one as your excuse over the next two years to support "I can believe whatever I want because freedom" policies and ignore (and even mock) the guidance of virtually every single reputable medical and healthcare organization in the U.S. And all of this bs behavior has led to hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths. So, yes, AZ's shining example of complete and utter stupidity needs discussion far more than NY/NJ, since states like AZ have no fucking excuse to have so many dead bodies and keep making the same stupid decisions, unlike NY. You're just labeling any fact you don't like as "politics" and then ignoring it because that's what your weak mind has learned to do from Fox and Newsmax.
 
GoldenGate said:
When the pandemic hit NY, there was little to no knowledge about how impacted hospitals would become or how life threatening Covid was to any specific categories of persons. Within a week, NYC went from 20 to 500 people dying of Covid daily, and 1000 the following week. There was no telling at the time how bad it was going to get and it wasn't clear whether sending nursing home patients who did not need to be in the hospital anymore back to nursing homes where they might still spread it, or leave them in potentially overwhelmed hospitals where they might also spread it. Was it the wrong decision in retrospect? Yes, of course it was. Did they overestimate the ability of nursing homes to prevent internal spread among their residents? Yes. Did they end up being overly concerned about the risk to children and other healthy groups? Also yes. Was this decision "politicizing healthcare". Of course not.

Honestly, it's pretty crazy that even a feeble-minded person like yourself would assert that others are politicizing healthcare in the very same sentence in which you're claiming that it all started in NY and NJ. No, it didn't start with NY and NJ. Cuomo sending nursing home residents was not "politicizing" healthcare. "Politicizing healthcare" started when you and your other anti-mask/vax friends subsequently used a decision that ended up being the wrong one as your excuse over the next two years to support "I can believe whatever I want because freedom" policies and ignore (and even mock) the guidance of virtually every single reputable medical and healthcare organization in the U.S. And all of this bs behavior has led to hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths. So, yes, AZ's shining example of complete and utter stupidity needs discussion far more than NY/NJ, since states like AZ have no fucking excuse to have so many dead bodies and keep making the same stupid decisions, unlike NY. You're just labeling any fact you don't like as "politics" and then ignoring it because that's what your weak mind has learned to do from Fox and Newsmax.
Click to expand...

Yes , we understand . When a Covid death happens in a blue state it’s because that said Governor was failed by the residents of that state . when it happens in a red state it’s because the Governor failed

simply put , Biden can’t fail, he can only be failed
 
GoldenGate said:
When the pandemic hit NY, there was little to no knowledge about how impacted hospitals would become or how life threatening Covid was to any specific categories of persons. Within a week, NYC went from 20 to 500 people dying of Covid daily, and 1000 the following week. There was no telling at the time how bad it was going to get and it wasn't clear whether sending nursing home patients who did not need to be in the hospital anymore back to nursing homes where they might still spread it, or leave them in potentially overwhelmed hospitals where they might also spread it. Was it the wrong decision in retrospect? Yes, of course it was. Did they overestimate the ability of nursing homes to prevent internal spread among their residents? Yes. Did they end up being overly concerned about the risk to children and other healthy groups? Also yes. Was this decision "politicizing healthcare". Of course not.

Honestly, it's pretty crazy that even a feeble-minded person like yourself would assert that others are politicizing healthcare in the very same sentence in which you're claiming that it all started in NY and NJ. No, it didn't start with NY and NJ. Cuomo sending nursing home residents was not "politicizing" healthcare. "Politicizing healthcare" started when you and your other anti-mask/vax friends subsequently used a decision that ended up being the wrong one as your excuse over the next two years to support "I can believe whatever I want because freedom" policies and ignore (and even mock) the guidance of virtually every single reputable medical and healthcare organization in the U.S. And all of this bs behavior has led to hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths. So, yes, AZ's shining example of complete and utter stupidity needs discussion far more than NY/NJ, since states like AZ have no fucking excuse to have so many dead bodies and keep making the same stupid decisions, unlike NY. You're just labeling any fact you don't like as "politics" and then ignoring it because that's what your weak mind has learned to do from Fox and Newsmax.
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You aren’t seriously defending the decision to return patients to nursing homes?

Yes, they were in crisis mode. But they had no reason to believe the policy would work. Your first guess is that returning patients to nursing homes would just create new patients, further overwhelming hospitals. Even when judged by the data available at the time, it was still a horrible decision.
 
Brav520 said:
Yes , we understand . When a Covid death happens in a blue state it’s because that said Governor was failed by the residents of that state . when it happens in a red state it’s because the Governor failed

simply put , Biden can’t fail, he can only be failed
Click to expand...

I see how you get that from a post that specifically states that NY made the wrong decision at the inception of the pandemic. What is AZ's excuse for killing so many people? I mean, it's known about horse paste for months.
 
Grace T. said:
This is a very reasoned post. I like it a lot. The one thing, though, you are neglecting is there's a lot of money riding on the answer to the question. On the line are whether governments should keep pushing the 3rd booster, and an omicron booster as well (the sunk costs to which are rapidly going to begin to mount). 4 shots for every person are now on the table, and quite a big pot of money. For reference, again, see Squid Games, which I am convinced rather than a socialist anti-capitalist allegory, is really a big pharma one.
Click to expand...

I could just as easily say that you choose to accentuate the money, power, dark side of human nature it's all a conspiracy so a pick a side stuff. But it's all good. Helpful in a way actually. YMMV
 
GoldenGate said:
I see how you get that from a post that specifically states that NY made the wrong decision at the inception of the pandemic. What is AZ's excuse for killing so many people? I mean, it's known about horse paste for months.
Click to expand...

Have you seen the Biden Covid Death Tracker?
 
dad4 said:
You aren’t seriously defending the decision to return patients to nursing homes?

Yes, they were in crisis mode. But they had no reason to believe the policy would work. Your first guess is that returning patients to nursing homes would just create new patients, further overwhelming hospitals. Even when judged by the data available at the time, it was still a horrible decision.
Click to expand...

I was pretty clear that it was the wrong decision. But it wasn't a decision "politicizing healthcare". The only "politicizing healthcare" here is being done by those who keep pointing to that poor decision as an excuse to completely ignore all of the things that mitigate spread and reduce deaths.
 
He lied , tried to cover it up, wrote a book about his success , and won an Emmy

people were talking that he should be the dem nominee for president , given how well he did on Covid

but yeah , it hasn’t been polticized
 
EvilGoalie 21 said:
I could just as easily say that you choose to accentuate the money, power, dark side of human nature it's all a conspiracy so a pick a side stuff. But it's all good. Helpful in a way actually. YMMV
Click to expand...
It's my econ training. Incentives.

A big failure of utopian schemes (whether Marxism or zero covid) is they make policy around how they wish people were, instead of what they are.
 
GoldenGate said:
I was pretty clear that it was the wrong decision. But it wasn't a decision "politicizing healthcare". The only "politicizing healthcare" here is being done by those who keep pointing to that poor decision as an excuse to completely ignore all of the things that mitigate spread and reduce deaths.
Click to expand...
At a minimum, the Levine appointment was a clear example of politicizing healthcare.

By the time of the appointment, it was clear that the decision to return patients to nursing homes resulted in added cases and deaths. If you were just looking for the most qualified person, there is no way you’d choose someone with that on their resume. You’d look to places like WA and CA that seemed on top of it.
 
GoldenGate said:
When the pandemic hit NY, there was little to no knowledge about how impacted hospitals would become or how life threatening Covid was to any specific categories of persons. Within a week, NYC went from 20 to 500 people dying of Covid daily, and 1000 the following week. There was no telling at the time how bad it was going to get and it wasn't clear whether sending nursing home patients who did not need to be in the hospital anymore back to nursing homes where they might still spread it, or leave them in potentially overwhelmed hospitals where they might also spread it. Was it the wrong decision in retrospect? Yes, of course it was. Did they overestimate the ability of nursing homes to prevent internal spread among their residents? Yes. Did they end up being overly concerned about the risk to children and other healthy groups? Also yes. Was this decision "politicizing healthcare". Of course not.

Honestly, it's pretty crazy that even a feeble-minded person like yourself would assert that others are politicizing healthcare in the very same sentence in which you're claiming that it all started in NY and NJ. No, it didn't start with NY and NJ. Cuomo sending nursing home residents was not "politicizing" healthcare. "Politicizing healthcare" started when you and your other anti-mask/vax friends subsequently used a decision that ended up being the wrong one as your excuse over the next two years to support "I can believe whatever I want because freedom" policies and ignore (and even mock) the guidance of virtually every single reputable medical and healthcare organization in the U.S. And all of this bs behavior has led to hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths. So, yes, AZ's shining example of complete and utter stupidity needs discussion far more than NY/NJ, since states like AZ have no fucking excuse to have so many dead bodies and keep making the same stupid decisions, unlike NY. You're just labeling any fact you don't like as "politics" and then ignoring it because that's what your weak mind has learned to do from Fox and Newsmax.
Click to expand...

You are beyond clueless. All of these words clearly prove that. You have a basic misunderstanding of disease protocols, you follow some silly political playbook, and you kneel at the pew of your ideology.

You are out of your mind If you think for one second that experts in the field (not ones why play one on TV) didn't recommend basic protocols for novel infections disease/outbreaks. Continue to froth at the mouth with meaningless words. You are good for entertainment purposes. Now please turn to page 8, paragraph 2, bullet #3 and type out your response. As it turns out, Cuomo is in fact a dirt bag. His aspirations were clearly political. He is a perverted, egotistical man

I know I'm not going to change your small, narrow mind. But it is amusing how easily disturbed and protective you become. Science and medicine were trumped by politics.
 
espola said:
Abortion is legal on request up to 12 weeks development in all countries except Poland, Vatican City, and a handful of mini-states. Even in those cases, nearby borders allow women to effectively have full choice in the matter.
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Pretty good summary as to the reasoning behind the future ruling by the Supreme Court on a question revolving around states rights and a question of 15wks vs 20 wks on termination of pregnancies. Guess you agree given your comment above… now that wasn’t divisive at all, right?
 
what-happened said:
You are beyond clueless. All of these words clearly prove that. You have a basic misunderstanding of disease protocols, you follow some silly political playbook, and you kneel at the pew of your ideology.

You are out of your mind If you think for one second that experts in the field (not ones why play one on TV) didn't recommend basic protocols for novel infections disease/outbreaks. Continue to froth at the mouth with meaningless words. You are good for entertainment purposes. Now please turn to page 8, paragraph 2, bullet #3 and type out your response. As it turns out, Cuomo is in fact a dirt bag. His aspirations were clearly political. He is a perverted, egotistical man

I know I'm not going to change your small, narrow mind. But it is amusing how easily disturbed and protective you become. Science and medicine were trumped by politics.
Click to expand...

Yes, states like AZ, FL and TX have it figured out. Definitely no clearly political decisions by perverted egotistical governors in those states, especially their attempted bans on hospitals and nursing homes requiring that their staff get vaccinated. No politics there. Clearly they know better than the hundreds of front line hospitals that are requiring that their staff get vaccinated, right?

The fact that you keep pointing to a bad decision that everyone agrees was bad to avoid addressing how the governors of pretty much every southern state continue ignoring virtually every disease protocol in existence just shows the level of your desperation. No one believes it was a good decision, yet here you are trying to pretend that I do, because it's the only way to avoid talking about literally every single stupid and inexcusable decision made by each of the states with by far the highest death rates over the last year and a half. Carry on with the anti-vax/mask agenda, which is turning out to be very lucrative for the mortuary business. So weird that none of today's batch of Herman Cain Award winners were nursing home residents, however.

https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/comments/rbqk6e
https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/comments/rbvj27
https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/comments/rbu4e9
https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/comments/rboic7
https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/comments/rbx7sb
https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCain...an_succumbs_to_covid_before_getting_a_chance/
https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCain...this_antivaxxer_lost_her_sister_and_then_her/
https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCain.../bill_was_a_marine_bill_made_his_own_choices/
https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/comments/rbqxqu/scottish_sportsman_accepts_his_award/
https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCain.../he_loved_beer_but_wasnt_sold_on_the_vaccine/
 
dad4 said:
At a minimum, the Levine appointment was a clear example of politicizing healthcare.

By the time of the appointment, it was clear that the decision to return patients to nursing homes resulted in added cases and deaths. If you were just looking for the most qualified person, there is no way you’d choose someone with that on their resume. You’d look to places like WA and CA that seemed on top of it.
Click to expand...

What the fuck are you talking about? NY didn't appoint them. I take it you're just going to point to whatever the fuck thing as evidence of "politicizing healthcare" so that you can then ignore whatever you want from health experts, since something was politicized so therefore everything is?
 
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