Vaccine

Desert Hound said:
They have not really explained the logic on this have they?

If the vaxxed still spread at close to the same rates as the unvaxxed, what exactly is the point of vax mandates? It certainly doesn't stop the spread?
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The vax mandates will melt into the background once the FDA gives the green light for therapeutics. Just an opinion. We would very well carry on with mandates but stop short on boosters. Boostering every 6-8 months is not tenable, convenient, or efficient. Pills are the way to go.

No one will admit that we've been learning on the fly on how to treat this disease. It's unlike anything we've seen. Remember ventilators? This virus behaves differently, at times not making sense to anyone. But don't worry, more money to be made. Stay tuned for the commercials with people sauntering through a wheat field with sunflowers in their hair, feeling great after taking whatever pill(s) are finally approved. It's coming.
 
dad4 said:
The vaccine is working as well as could be hoped for. Remember that originally, we were hoping for something that was at least 70% effective. We got a 90+% that eventually needs a booster. Sounds like we got our wish.

It's reasonable to be upset that it isn't all over. There are two causes of that:

1- the existence of a national anti-vax campaign.
2- the emergence of a higher transmission variant.

Neither one of those can reasonably be blamed on the vaccine. No vaccine can really do the job if half of us refuse to take it.
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so what is the endgame here
 
Grace T. said:
It's not just that. Western philosophy (Eastern is more complicated and has been polluted by western thought which leads to strange anomalies like a democratic industrial Japan and a communist China which is authoritarian but bears little resemblance to Marxist communism) has been diverging into 3 poles since the American and French revolutions: the traditionalists (who favored the state and patriotism as a buffer against the chaos of Midevalism), the modernists (who valued liberty and reason and came out of the Enlightenment) and the post modernists (who value equity and justice, born in the French revolution, and which has many uncles in many different post modernist philosophies). The poles are wholly different ways of looking at the world and speak different languages and have different values. Two of the poles (the post modernists and traditionalists) have decided they are existential threats to one another.

Opportunistic politicians looking to feed their power play into the divisions. The information bubbles just push it. One thing the pandemic has contributed to is the Great Sorting: people who can't stand their red or blue communities moving out of them....how great the Great Sorting is or will be is interesting and may accelerate or decline depending on what happens in Virginia, but it will be interesting to study to see how real it is, if at all. Virginia (which ranges from deep establishment blue never vote anything but D in Arlington to confederate flags proudly flying down south) may very well tear itself apart.
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I think for the US its less philosophical than that. When 2 of the 3 branches of the legislative branch can be controlled by a minority of the voters, and those 2 branches in turn can control the judicial branch, then there is some very fundamental flaws in the system.

No politician really wants to runs on policy (or be judged on it), culture issues are much easier to run on and much easier to roll with for cycle after cycle.
 
Grace T. said:
It's not just that. Western philosophy (Eastern is more complicated and has been polluted by western thought which leads to strange anomalies like a democratic industrial Japan and a communist China which is authoritarian but bears little resemblance to Marxist communism) has been diverging into 3 poles since the American and French revolutions: the traditionalists (who favored the state and patriotism as a buffer against the chaos of Midevalism), the modernists (who valued liberty and reason and came out of the Enlightenment) and the post modernists (who value equity and justice, born in the French revolution, and which has many uncles in many different post modernist philosophies). The poles are wholly different ways of looking at the world and speak different languages and have different values. Two of the poles (the post modernists and traditionalists) have decided they are existential threats to one another.

Opportunistic politicians looking to feed their power play into the divisions. The information bubbles just push it. One thing the pandemic has contributed to is the Great Sorting: people who can't stand their red or blue communities moving out of them....how great the Great Sorting is or will be is interesting and may accelerate or decline depending on what happens in Virginia, but it will be interesting to study to see how real it is, if at all. Virginia (which ranges from deep establishment blue never vote anything but D in Arlington to confederate flags proudly flying down south) may very well tear itself apart.
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You're babbling.
 
whatithink said:
I think for the US its less philosophical than that. When 2 of the 3 branches of the legislative branch can be controlled by a minority of the voters, and those 2 branches in turn can control the judicial branch, then there is some very fundamental flaws in the system.

No politician really wants to runs on policy (or be judged on it), culture issues are much easier to run on and much easier to roll with for cycle after cycle.
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No it's not. The Ds are being pulled by the post modernist on both the economic and cultural issue front (it's that they don't want to upset their donor base that the emphasis has been more cultural...post modernism suffers from a contradiction that it's adherents are usually the wealthiest and best educated)...the Rs by the traditionalists like Trump. Modernists like Sinema, Manchin, Romney or McCain were caught in the middle of it all and have had to make a choice over what's the lesser of two evils. Some modernists, like McConnell or HRC or Biden, tried to coop the wings, with varying but generally little degrees of success.

The federalist system is the only thing holding the country together right now. It's the only way we get through this really, especially if the Great Sorting becomes even more pronounced and noticeable. Biden was elected as a caretaker president who could hopefully try to pull the country together...the fact that he hasn't is the chief reason why his poll numbers are so down....it was especially the hope of the moderates in the center.
 
dad4 said:
The vaccine is working as well as could be hoped for. Remember that originally, we were hoping for something that was at least 70% effective. We got a 90+% that eventually needs a booster. Sounds like we got our wish.

It's reasonable to be upset that it isn't all over. There are two causes of that:

1- the existence of a national anti-vax campaign.
2- the emergence of a higher transmission variant.

Neither one of those can reasonably be blamed on the vaccine. No vaccine can really do the job if half of us refuse to take it.
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I am not one that buys what Big Pharma is selling. Way too many years living, working under their umbrella. Pfizer did a press release that said 90%, they weren't even finished with their trials yet. they've never gone back to correct the record. The FDA would have approved a vaccine at 50% or above.

I don't buy the fact that there is a coordinated national anti-vax campaign. The government shot itself in the foot with their messaging and stance. At some point they should be held accountable..but they won't be . Blame politicians for politicizing public health. We are just now seeing good numbers in minority vaccination. That could have been addressed much earlier. Instead politicians engaged in a culture war. Vaccine hesitancy is a real thing, just ask people in MS who've been skeptical of any type of federal public health intervention since the 30s.

Delta certainly accelereated spread but the vaccines are effective against Delta. An unbiased, transparent vaccination campaign would have fared better than what occurred. The tone was set in 2019 and early 2020. You can thank DC for that.
 
dad4 said:
You feel the vax isn't living up to billing. I feel it is amazingly effective, even with known limitations. We aren't in agreement on this one.

Seems like most of my kids' vaccinations had boosters. The possibility of a booster doesn't surprise me at all. Kind of what I expected.
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It's a fact that vaccines hitch hike on the immune system of all those cases you hyped from the start. Not to mention sanitation systems and clean drinking water. When you take in to consideration the arsenal of integrated systems that humans rely on vaccines are not that amazing. They are just a part of the arsenal required to help the immuno compromised and the old.
 
MacDre said:
I get it. I enrolled my kid in our local public school for the first time because her school in Mexico is still 100% online. She tells me that many of the kids are struggling. My school district has a housing project, trailer park, and affluent kids. You’d think that with only 450 students in the HS, the district could meet the needs of the disadvantaged kids but it’s not happening. I think the districts solution is to send the kids from the trailer parks and housing projects to the continuation school and leave the HS for the affluent kids. I don’t even want to think about how a district as large as LAUSD is dealing with the fallout from Covid.

I just received a message from the Superintendent that Covid is down, Flu is up, and we have a shortage of bus drivers.
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IMO California elementary schools are great, middle schools are pretty good and our high schools are a disaster, particularly for kids that need extra assistance. I find too many HS teachers are straight up lazy, more worried about their rights than their obligations. A lot of the principals aren't any better. We have a new principal that shows up in a hoody and sweatpants with her shirt hanging out...looks like she just rolled out of bed. Ever since she started she has just cancelled existing school programs because they "require too much work and teacher support". It sometimes takes months for my daughters teachers to grade papers and often weeks to score tests that don't involve a scantron.

It's not just bus drivers that are needed, its a shortage of school food service workers, maintenance workers etc. Remember that 4.3 million people quit their jobs in August.
 
if the vaccination is really really good at protecting you from serious illness and death( which it is ) then what is the concern being around unvaccinated people? Shouldn't you have at least also have some concern being around vaccinated people since they can still spread it ?

you just don't want to get sick, with flu like symptoms ? Ok, understandable , is that the same mentality you have always had around flu season ?
 
Desert Hound said:
I have nothing against vaccines. I have an issue when they try vaxx passports. If someone choses not to get vaxxed, who cares?
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Those paying for it care, e.g. United airlines said it cost them $50K per covid hospitalization, so they said vaccinate or pay an extra $200 a month in healthcare fees. If people choose not to vaccinate, then they can do that, in the knowledge that there may be consequences. That's fine by me, just stop complaining about those consequences if "you" don't like them.
 
whatithink said:
Those paying for it care, e.g. United airlines said it cost them $50K per covid hospitalization, so they said vaccinate or pay an extra $200 a month in healthcare fees. If people choose not to vaccinate, then they can do that, in the knowledge that there may be consequences. That's fine by me, just stop complaining about those consequences if "you" don't like them.
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That's why UA buys insurance for their employees. They nor you should be complaining when UA has to pay for what they agreed to.
 
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