Vaccine

[Desert Hound]

My main complaint is with the unvaccinated folks who socialize without masks. To use your phrase, they are adults who are not taking care of themselves. Worse, they are adults pushing their burden onto others.

Vaccinated people who are masked and grumbling are fine. They’re doing the right thing. They have every right to not like it.

Vaxxed people now are getting the virus and spreading at similar rates to the unvaxxed. Delta has changed the equation.

So while you guys are grumbling and feeling self righteous...remember that with delta you guys are also spreading the D. So you are not saving the world, etc. Masked or unmasked the virus isnt stopping.

Being vaxxed however reduced chances of hospitalization. And in your case being young and health you have basically no risk pre vaxx and even less so now. So stop grumbling, take off your mask and go live life. Have a beer inside someplace without a mask.

 

[Grace T.]

Some of us have been saying this for a while but we were told no, it's just conspiracy theories, and you guys have no evidence and it's been disproven.

Sharyl Attkisson: Serious Questions About The Way Covid Deaths Have Been Counted

"Full Measure" host Sharyl Attkisson investigates how Covid-19 cases and deaths are being counted and finds some suspicious overcounting: As hindsight comes into clearer focus, we're learning a lot about mistaken advice and policies amid the Covid-19 pandemic. One still murky and disputed area...

www.realclearpolitics.com

 

[Bruddah IZ]

Studies show vaccinated patients transmit to fewer people:
Peak load is high, but vaccinated patients spend considerably less time at peak load. The shortened time means fewer exposures.

And fewer deaths. You're case hyping again. IFR of .009 from March 6th to present. Run along now.

 

[Grace T.]

Thoughtful Vox piece....

So, it wasn’t a “hot vax summer” after all

What does “going back to normal” even mean anymore?

www.vox.com

 

[GoldenGate]

Some of us have been saying this for a while but we were told no, it's just conspiracy theories, and you guys have no evidence and it's been disproven.

Sharyl Attkisson: Serious Questions About The Way Covid Deaths Have Been Counted

"Full Measure" host Sharyl Attkisson investigates how Covid-19 cases and deaths are being counted and finds some suspicious overcounting: As hindsight comes into clearer focus, we're learning a lot about mistaken advice and policies amid the Covid-19 pandemic. One still murky and disputed area...

www.realclearpolitics.com

....Brought to you by the people who penned such classics as "Serious questions about the way election votes have been counted" and "Serious questions about the way Holocaust victims have been counted".

 

[Bruddah IZ]

Grace wants us to have UK rule relaxation without having a UK vaccination rate.

The UK 16+ vaccination rate is 89% for first shot. 81% fully vaxxed.

If they tried this with a Mississippi or Idaho vax rate, they’d be up shit creek- just like Mississippi and Idaho are.

Nope. You're case hyping again. Idaho and MS have been running IFR's between .011 and .023 (outlier) since March 2020 pre-vax, max mask, max SIP. You give Bovine Scatology a bad name.

 

[watfly]

Some of us have been saying this for a while but we were told no, it's just conspiracy theories, and you guys have no evidence and it's been disproven.

Sharyl Attkisson: Serious Questions About The Way Covid Deaths Have Been Counted

"Full Measure" host Sharyl Attkisson investigates how Covid-19 cases and deaths are being counted and finds some suspicious overcounting: As hindsight comes into clearer focus, we're learning a lot about mistaken advice and policies amid the Covid-19 pandemic. One still murky and disputed area...

www.realclearpolitics.com

Team Chicken Little had no option but to claim conspiracy because the raw death number was always the scariest number they could pump up. We'd mention % risk and they always came back to "yeah but 600,000 deaths". Which is admittedly scary and is awful. However, early on health departments were disclosing that gunshot deaths (among others) with a positive Covid test were categorized as a Covid death. Now the CDC is admitting that 95% of deaths categorized as Covid had on average 4 other causes of death. Does that mean that some of those were still killed by Covid, yes, but certainly many died of other primary causes.

 

[Bruddah IZ]

My main complaint is with the unvaccinated folks who socialize without masks. To use your phrase, they are adults who are not taking care of themselves. Worse, they are adults pushing their burden onto others.

Vaccinated people who are masked and grumbling are fine. They’re doing the right thing. They have every right to not like it.

 

[Bruddah IZ]

A lot of the folks you talk to, whether online or in real life, have a superficial and uninformed opinion of the virus, what works, and what we ought to do.

To this day many if not most people still think the numbers go up and down according to people's behavior. When the numbers go up, that means people are misbehaving. When they go down, people must have started listening to public health officials again.

The fact that people in completely different states with completely different policies see their numbers go up and down at exactly the same time doesn't faze them at all, because they don't bother to inform themselves about what's actually happening.

As if this needed refuting for a thousandth time, I present to you the hospitalization graph for the southern states around the time of the recent spike:




Can you tell which of these states has had a mask mandate during this time?

Can you tell which one has the highest vaccination rate? The lowest?

Of course not: the trajectories and in large part the lines themselves are all the same.

You would think we would be having a discussion about why this should be. Why do these states look exactly the same despite their varying policies implemented at varying times?

 

[GoldenGate]

Team Chicken Little had no option but to claim conspiracy because the raw death number was always the scariest number they could pump up. We'd mention % risk and they always came back to "yeah but 600,000 deaths". Which is admittedly scary and is awful. However, early on health departments were disclosing that gunshot deaths (among others) with a positive Covid test were categorized as a Covid death. Now the CDC is admitting that 95% of deaths categorized as Covid had on average 4 other causes of death. Does that mean that some of those were still killed by Covid, yes, but certainly many died of other primary causes.

Between January 26, 2020–February 27, 2021, 545,600–660,200 more persons than expected died in the United States from all causes. Even more remarkable, about 50,000 fewer people died from influenza during that period for obvious reasons. How do you explain an extra 600-700k deaths that 13 month period? Let me guess. There is a conspiracy on top of a conspiracy....All the deaths listed as Covid-19 deaths were really gunshot wounds and such, except when you add up all the deaths and realize that makes no sense, in which case you claim no one died at all. Right?

 

[Desert Hound]

....Brought to you by the people who penned such classics as "Serious questions about the way election votes have been counted" and "Serious questions about the way Holocaust victims have been counted".

....Brought to you by the people who penned such classics as "Serious questions about the way election votes have been counted" and "Serious questions about the way Holocaust victims have been counted".

You can find countless articles peppered through the NY Times, WAPO, NBC, dem politicians asking about vote counts etc. Refer back to 2016, 2018 and even leading up to 2020. So stop your foolishness.

 

[Bruddah IZ]

A lot of the folks you talk to, whether online or in real life, have a superficial and uninformed opinion of the virus, what works, and what we ought to do.

To this day many if not most people still think the numbers go up and down according to people's behavior. When the numbers go up, that means people are misbehaving. When they go down, people must have started listening to public health officials again.

The fact that people in completely different states with completely different policies see their numbers go up and down at exactly the same time doesn't faze them at all, because they don't bother to inform themselves about what's actually happening.

As if this needed refuting for a thousandth time, I present to you the hospitalization graph for the southern states around the time of the recent spike:

View attachment 11698


Can you tell which of these states has had a mask mandate during this time?

Can you tell which one has the highest vaccination rate? The lowest?

Of course not: the trajectories and in large part the lines themselves are all the same.

You would think we would be having a discussion about why this should be. Why do these states look exactly the same despite their varying policies implemented at varying times?

Tom Woods

 

[Bruddah IZ]

Between January 26, 2020–February 27, 2021, 545,600–660,200 more persons than expected died in the United States from all causes. Even more remarkable, about 50,000 fewer people died from influenza during that period for obvious reasons. How do you explain an extra 600-700k deaths that 13 month period? Let me guess. There is a conspiracy on top of a conspiracy....All the deaths listed as Covid-19 deaths were really gunshot wounds and such, except when you add up all the deaths and realize that makes no sense, in which case you claim no one died at all. Right?

I heard COVID cured cancer and heart disease. No wonder they employed draconian SIP's andNPI's.

 

[Bruddah IZ]

​ Some other interesting charts: Washington state, which has had all kinds of irrational restrictions but also heavy vaccination, has seen death numbers that look like the following, recently surpassing the height of their worst spike:

​

​ Since it's fashionable to blame Florida governor Rob DeSantis for everything, Ian looks at this chart and jokes, "Why did Ron DeSantis not do more to promote vaccinations in Washington?"

 

[Bruddah IZ]

​ Now let's check in on Maine:

​

​ Miller writes: "98% of everyone over 65 in Maine is at least partially vaccinated, 93% are fully vaccinated, yet hospitalizations are nearly as high as they were last winter. Let’s see, do we blame this on Ron DeSantis, Sturgis, or college football fans in the South? So many tempting choices!"

 

[watfly]

Between January 26, 2020–February 27, 2021, 545,600–660,200 more persons than expected died in the United States from all causes. Even more remarkable, about 50,000 fewer people died from influenza during that period for obvious reasons. How do you explain an extra 600-700k deaths that 13 month period? Let me guess. There is a conspiracy on top of a conspiracy....All the deaths listed as Covid-19 deaths were really gunshot wounds and such, except when you add up all the deaths and realize that makes no sense, in which case you claim no one died at all. Right?

Fair question, first of all its an estimate of expected deaths, not an increase in actual deaths from year to year. Furthermore the study specifically admits it doesn't differentiate from direct Covid deaths and indirect Covid deaths, which are due to a disruption of health care caused by fear, lockdown and restrictions as follows:

Finally, estimates of excess deaths not associated with COVID-19 might represent misclassified COVID-19 deaths or deaths indirectly associated with the pandemic (e.g., because of disruptions in health care access or utilization). For example, a previous report described declines in emergency department visits for heart attack, stroke, and hyperglycemic crisis in early 2020 (4). The excess death analyses presented here cannot distinguish between excess deaths that might have been misclassified COVID-19 deaths or those that might have been indirectly associated with the pandemic.

Zero deaths is your claim so you have something to argue against while drinking partisan kool-aid. I suspect deaths from Covid are in the 100,000's. Wouldn't be surprised if it were in the neighborhood of 300,000, but I'm very skeptical that its in the 600,000 range. Of course, we have overwhelming data on the groups that are susceptible to serious health impacts from Covid and its a very narrow and limited population.

 

[Desert Hound]

A lot of the folks you talk to, whether online or in real life, have a superficial and uninformed opinion of the virus, what works, and what we ought to do.

To this day many if not most people still think the numbers go up and down according to people's behavior. When the numbers go up, that means people are misbehaving. When they go down, people must have started listening to public health officials again.

The fact that people in completely different states with completely different policies see their numbers go up and down at exactly the same time doesn't faze them at all, because they don't bother to inform themselves about what's actually happening.

As if this needed refuting for a thousandth time, I present to you the hospitalization graph for the southern states around the time of the recent spike:

View attachment 11698


Can you tell which of these states has had a mask mandate during this time?

Can you tell which one has the highest vaccination rate? The lowest?

Of course not: the trajectories and in large part the lines themselves are all the same.

You would think we would be having a discussion about why this should be. Why do these states look exactly the same despite their varying policies implemented at varying times?

That point seems to escape people all the time.

Despite mandates, distancing, etc. Around the world we see roughly the same graphs, outcomes. It is almost like the gov solutions really have little bearing on the actual outcome of what the virus does.

 

[Desert Hound]

I bet some of you on this forum didn't know you were part of the "fun police".

My Going Maskless Is Different, Says San Francisco Mayor, Because ‘I Was Feeling the Spirit’ | National Review

Know who else feels the spirit and objects to the fun police? Everybody, that’s who.

www.nationalreview.com

MORE COVID-19 HYPOCRISY: San Francisco Mayor London Breed Partied Maskless at a Jazz Club.

The video makes it look like a really hopping time. But notice that there isn’t a mask in sight, even though Breed’s own COVID-19 orders require bar, restaurant, and club customers to wear masks when not actively eating or drinking. A local news channel asked Breed about this, and here’s what she said:
No, I’m not going to sip and put my mask on, sip and put my mask on, sip and put my mask on, eat and put my mask on. While I’m eating, and I’m drinking, I’m going to keep my mask off,” Breed said.
In response to getting up and dancing without the mask on while at the Black Cat, she said she was sitting at her table with her drink but got up to dance because she was “feeling the spirit” and she “wasn’t thinking about a mask, I was thinking about having a good time, and in the process, I was following the health order.”
Breed is right: It is ridiculous to require vaccinated people to mask up under such circumstances. But the obvious solution here would be to rescind the mandate. Breed shouldn’t have to follow it, because no one should have to follow it.

“Feeling the spirit” and “thinking about having a good time, and in the process, I was following the health order,” should be every vaccinated person’s cri de coeur when the mask nazis come in 2021.

 

[EvilGoalie 21]

Okay Fauci.

OK Ioannidis.

 

[espola]

 

[Bruddah IZ]

… is from page 83 of George Will’s hot-off-the-press 2021 book, American Happiness and Discontents: The Unruly Torrent, 2008-2020 – a collection of many of his columns over these years; (the column from which the quotation below is drawn was originally published in the Washington Post on August 9th, 2019) (original emphasis):

What socialists are so fond of saying, national conservatives are now saying: This time will be different. It never is, because government’s economic planning always involves the fatal conceit that government can aggregate, and act on, information more intelligently and nimbly than markets can.