Vaccine

watfly said:
As would I and I suspect would the vast majority of the population. No one wants to get sick, very sick possibly, just to have natural immunity.


I think that's where most of us are coming from. Unfortunately, those that make policy are trying to force implementation of a one size fits all approach, particularly when it comes to requiring vaccines to participate in certain normal activities. The public doesn't respond very well to "my way or the highway" approach.
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Agreed. I get where you are coming from on the question of how to handle (policywise) those who have had covid one or more times and have not been vaccinated. At a practical level, are you advocating for people to be able to meet a vaccine requirement by showing some sort of proof they have had covid? The real issue is wanting everyone to have good immune protection if possible, and then asking what metric or proxy is then useful.
 
Meanwhile, all eyes are on Florida, because the media establishment despises Ron DeSantis, but lunatic Washington state just set an all-time record for hospitalizations:
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Roadrunner said:
Agreed. I get where you are coming from on the question of how to handle (policywise) those who have had covid one or more times and have not been vaccinated. At a practical level, are you advocating for people to be able to meet a vaccine requirement by showing some sort of proof they have had covid? The real issue is wanting everyone to have good immune protection if possible, and then asking what metric or proxy is then useful.
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Personally I'm not in favor of having to meet any vaccine requirement for things like having dinner out, or for providing proof of a prior positive Covid test. I can see a good faith argument for requiring vaccines in Healthcare and military, but it's still problematic for me as a blanket approach.

I could be wrong, but it doesn't seem in the past that we've ever mandated or required a vaccine this soon after a vaccine was developed, certainly not before it was FDA approved (apparently Pfizer is coming on Monday). How long after certain vaccines were developed were they required for public education?

The Covid vaccinations are certainly one of the greatest accomplishments in medical history. However, I can appreciate people's skepticism given the pace that Covid information has been changing, sometimes in contradiction to previous information.
 
Roadrunner said:
It sounds like we are talking about different issues. The first topic I was following was whether it would be better to get immunity via infection or vaccinations. If given the choice, I would pick developing immunity via vaccines. This should not be a fantasy anymore with the amazing development of efficacious vaccines. When SARS-CoV2 infects cells, it can directly kill them, and it can also fuse cells to their neighbors, like a bunch of smaller bubbles merging together. There's also potential for secondary damage. Either route of exposure can lead to immunity, but one way avoids the damage.

If an individual already has some immunity, then their immune system should be able to try to neutralize viruses that it can recognize when the individual is exposed. If they don't have a robust enough response relative to the virus, then the virus can cause damage. It partly becomes a numbers and timing problem when considering the battle between the virus and the immune system.
The vaccine allows one to develop immunity without damage from infection. That is the point, in addition to not allowing the host to effectively spread the virus. If the virus is limited in it's ability to replicate or spread, the probability of variants emerging that can evade the immune system or that can be more damaging will be lower. Coronaviruses are great at not just mutating but also recombining, and the history of viruses shows that they don't always become more benign over time.

Any public health policy should be well grounded in the current knowledge, but will be necessarily impacted by realities and needs on the ground in their location. For example, Vietnam did an amazing job for quite a while limiting covid in their country. But, they have a robust medical system, quarantine facilities, and a government system that is strict. They also dealt with sars-cov1, and the population readily complies with public health edicts. England will be very different. Policies will also be impacted by what is available. Some locations don't have good access to vaccines, for example, let alone boosters. Some places have very limited medical facilities or staff.

I am not really interested in coming up with a one size fits all solution, because that's not practical or sensible. Sorry to disappoint on that.
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Yes we are talking different issues. You are talking about a different question. Neither one of the 2 approaches under discussion is don’t vaccinate. And it’s a fair response re the 3rd world…this is excluding any country without a vaccine response

the issue is the blue state us response and the Uk response are beginning to diverge. Extrapolating a bit here but the blue state is response is ongoing low level npis keeping people from being infected until the booster and maybe delta specific boosters are available. It has no end date for npi restrictions and advocates like Gottlieb readily admit it may be 1-3 more years to normalcy. The uk response is remove almost all restrictions and the booster (except for the most vulnerable) is natural infection. Incidentally that also frees up vaccine doses for use in the 3rd world. The Uk approach means returning to something close like normalcy now. That’s the choice I had asked you to comment on but you seem to prefer friendlier ground of your choosing.
 
crush said:
I guess zombie life is next. No offense, everything you just wrote makes zero sense but you took it and I'm sure you will live with the consequences. Where I draw the line is when someone fires someone for saying, "NO!!!" or kid is blocked. It's great you know how to make a better bio weapon and all but this thing is one big mess. You and so many listened to Dr. F, a known liar. Bill was in on it with Jeffrey. You do understand that right? Does that make you feel a little nervous what these boys were up to? I forgot to ask. Is Jesus the Lord?
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@crush

I’m sorry man… I feel like the older sibling that ruined Santa… you know ‘EvilGoalie 21” by another name.
 
N00B said:
@crush

I’m sorry man… I feel like the older sibling that ruined Santa… you know ‘EvilGoalie 21” by another name.
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Well, actually I was just trying to wrap my head around the idea that it's going to be pretty thin under the tree for me this year. What with lyin', cheatin', reading filthy books, working on behalf of know or alleged pedophiles and now apparently unleashing the zombie apocalypse I have a feeling I'm on the Big Guy's naughty list. That's probably not even a complete tally. With a quarter of a year left to go. And here I was hoping for a new PCR machine.
 
And a new pair of goalie gloves that don't have to be transported between games and practice tied down to the outside of the car. I guess I can kiss that goodbye too.
 
EvilGoalie 21 said:
Well, actually I was just trying to wrap my head around the idea that it's going to be pretty thin under the tree for me this year. What with lyin', cheatin', reading filthy books, working on behalf of know or alleged pedophiles and now apparently unleashing the zombie apocalypse I have a feeling I'm on the Big Guy's naughty list. That's probably not even a complete tally. With a quarter of a year left to go. And here I was hoping for a new PCR machine.
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Hahahahaha Evil. I'm trying to find work today and food for next month so keep me in your thoughts. The pressure is on me like no other time in my life. I mean that 100%. As a man, I can;t buy & sell unless I get jabbed. You think this is funny, dont you? I was at Trader Joes yesterday. I'm starting to see regular folks with signs asking for help. This is going to get a lot worse for middle class families and giggle all you want. I know you and the others think this is all fun & games trying to ruin other peoples ability to live. BTW, Hunter is the only one I know who reported to the Big Guy. You will see the truth some day Evil.
 
What a wonderful place to live....not!!

NYC vaccination program will require IDs to eat indoors to prevent 'fraud'
New York was the first city in the nation to require such proof of vaccination

"The ID requirement is to help reduce fraud. Venues covered by the vax screening program are required to check ID for those 18+. Checking ID for 12+ is optional. The NYC Covid Safe app allows you to upload a picture of your ID if you don't want to carry it," he added.
 
Surgeon general expects more businesses will mandate COVID-19 vaccine after FDA approval

"This is important for a couple of reasons," Murthy said about the FDA approval. "Number one, there were some people who may have been waiting for this, and who may come up in the sense, so to speak, to get vaccinated. So, it may help increase vaccination rates to some extent. But I also think that there are universities and businesses that have been considering putting in vaccine requirements in order to create a safer, a workplace, a learning environment. And I think this announcement from the FDA would likely encourage them and make them feel more comfortable in putting some requirements in place."

I will do my best to look for a way to make a living but I will never get jabbed. My buddy is not doing well you guys. I have first hand eye witness news. Let's see what happens when push comes to shove.
 
“Few people will ever go broke overestimating the desire among Americans to inflict punishment on their perceived political enemies. But not only will blue-state vax requirements end up disproportionately impacting Democratic-voting minority populations, they will also discourage basic human activity among populations that have already long since been nudged into vaccination.”
 
I just watched a video of a German Doctor ((30 years looking at blood cells)) and her two attorneys just showed me and others wtf is going on under the microscope. The blood cells stack up on each other. They light up and become positive charged. She has never seen anything like it. She has death threats and the lawyers are concerned to take it to the judges because? Watch out is all I can say. This is where the rubble meets the road. Good luck you guys and stay safe and just say no until you know more. Fear based life is soon coming to an end soon :)
 
No I don't have an issue with people at a Pelosi fundraiser not wearing a mask. I would be wearing one there either.

I do however have an issue when in public she is pushing mask mandates, has one for the House, etc. And of course every time she is on TV whether outdoors or indoors you can see her with a mask.

Rules are for the little people.

nypost.com

Video shows hordes of maskless people at Pelosi fundraiser

Nancy Pelosi was apparently caught addressing an outdoor crowd of mask-less Democratic big wigs in COVID-19-riddled Napa Valley over the weekend.
nypost.com nypost.com
 
JUST IN - NYC mandates vaccinations for all public school teachers, staff. No way to opt out. It marks the first flat-out vaccination mandate for city workers in the nation’s most populous city (AP)
 
The US Food and Drug Administration on Monday granted full approval to the Pfizer/BioNTech Covid-19 vaccine for people age 16 and older. This is the first coronavirus vaccine approved by the FDA, and is expected to open the door to more vaccine mandates.
"The vaccine has been known as the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine, and will now be marketed as Comirnaty, for the prevention of COVID-19 disease in individuals 16 years of age and older,"

This weekend, officials familiar with the decision said they discussed how to prepare for the rollout once the FDA grants full approval, given it will be a major messaging opportunity to encourage vaccination.

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Albert Bourla, the chair and chief executive officer of Pfizer, said the decision reaffirms the vaccine's safety.

“Based on the longer-term follow-up data that we submitted, today’s approval for those aged 16 and over affirms the efficacy and safety profile of our vaccine at a time when it is urgently needed. I am hopeful this approval will help increase confidence in our vaccine, as vaccination remains the best tool we have to help protect lives and achieve herd immunity. Hundreds of millions of doses of our vaccine already have been administered in the U.S. since December 2020, and we look forward to continuing to work with the U.S. government to reach more Americans," Bourla said.
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He wants all of you. I wish you all the best......

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