Vaccine

[Grace T.]

I don't think doctors or nurses having actual demonstrated success with how to best try to treat or help people with covid were ignored. The best practices have changed over the pandemic. There were some ideas suggested for possible treatments that didn't pan out.

Universities are not controlled environments any more than large businesses or other institutions. There are productivity expectations, labor issues, budget problems, people problems, just like anywhere. And they are not the ones setting government policies nor school policies. Not being able to control all variables is very different from identifying the involved variables, thinking about how they influence outcomes, and trying to find approaches for both analysis and possible solutions to problems.

I was on a jury where the other juro

How do you pick and choose which "expert" you trust? Do you ask your mechanic for advice on cancer treatment? Look for advice on investments from your wedding planner? Btw, it's news to me that experts in any field are part of a closed society, and everyone who is an expert in their field is similar. Some gross generalization and assumptions here.

Back in the fall I had a secondary bacterial infection that nearly killed me which they think resulted from a weakened immune system from covid. I knew the antibiotic wasn’t working but my gp and specialist insisted that I play out the entire course, even one night when I was on the floor in agony screaming in front of my kids. I insisted on being switched instead of going off and taking another culture. Doctors argued but gave in. It saves my life the doctors conceded.

same Story on covid…day 10 couldn’t breath…it was at the beginning and they didn’t know what to do…I told my doc put me in a steroid. Doc said it kept me out of the hospital saved my life maybe.

2008 my financial advisor told me to hold certain assets. I told her the bottom was about to drop out. She called me crazy. I was spared the worst (my younger sibling did not listen and bought at the top of a bubble)

no you don’t listen to you mechanic for cancer. You do assume the experts are idiots and rather than defer you question the hell out of them. The internet is also the great info leveler which is why the experts have been routinely been beaten by knowledgeable outsiders. The entire idea of the enlightenment was not to follow blindly but to think critically. That’s why the recent tech tendency to censor info is so dangerous.

 

[Grace T.]

Yes. A reduction in R can co-exist with an increase on cases. And an increase to R can co-exist with a drop in cases. Differential equations are like that. I’d explain it, but it requires about two years of graduate level math which you never took.

Either take the classes, or listen to the people who took the classes. Until then, you’re an unqualified person who insists on bad mouthing the people who are qualified.

Seems like I got under someone’s skin. And you didn’t even understand the point I corrected you on (which is a very basic basic point) and just doubled down on the mistake. This is why you don’t defer to experts

 

[crush]

How do you pick and choose which "expert" you trust? Do you ask your mechanic for advice on cancer treatment? ((No, that is stupid))

Ask questions to Doctors and not auto mechanics Roadrunner. Ask Docs you know and trust too. Watch their body language and listen to what comes out of their mouth. Are they defensive? Are they mocking you for daring to ask a Q? Are they just following the boss's orders? If so, go up the chain of command. Get to the truth damn it. Do you have any contacts in the Marines Rr? Ask them what they think. Question everything and everyone because your life and your hearers will be affected by your choice and dont be the first to get in line for booster jabs this time. I slowed played this big time because I knew from my Stanford friend who is a doctor and my pals in the military that this is not good. I took all that information and planted it on the right side of my brain. After that, I went online to see what the folks were saying. That's when the assholes on FB drew lines because they were pissed off HRC lost and blamed it on me and the rain. Sore losers then went out of their way to cheat and win at all cost. Russia and more Russia, Impeach twice and then the big heist Nov 3rd. This was a military sting operation fool. That alone should scare you straight. Dont F with people who have been big time screwed over by the War Vampires. The Scam with a Plan is what were all fighting over now. It;s the flu. Grace thinks otherwise. She plays it safe and looks for common ground. Where two side fight, no one is right, right?

 

[crush]

Seems like I got under someone’s skin. And you didn’t even understand the point I corrected you on (which is a very basic basic point) and just doubled down on the mistake. This is why you don’t defer to experts

It's EOTL. Exposed!!!

 

[espola]

Not really. Politicians who think they are above the rules are dime a dozen in both parties.

I am much more angry at the deliberate incompetence which results in deaths. Cuomo and Levine for restocking the nursing homses with fresh covid patients. DeSantis and Abbott for blocking mask rules in the middle of an outbreak.

Cuomo was ignorant. DeSantis and Abbott both know exactly what they are doing.

 

[Roadrunner]

Whose spreading the misinformation? It's mostly coming from the "ists" with their mixed messaging. The Misinformation in Chief is Fauci. The media is also guilty because they either are trying to fit a narrative (like politicians) or they simply don't understand what they are reporting.

There seems to be this sentiment that the problem is Johnny Q Redneck is spreading misinformation on social media. Johnny Q Redneck is not the problem, he has no credibility. The biggest problem is the "experts" and the media that have implied credibility.

I agree that the problems come in communication. It's been poor. The policy makers might or might not be getting good information, and frequently, they are not considering a full enough set of stakeholders. If you're not at the table, right? We needed transparent, well informed communication from the start, and we didn't get it. We deserve better, and I think most everyone is frustrated.

As a society, too many want to divide us into camps, and dismiss others if their opinion doesn't conform. We're not listening to each other's stories. Families are getting divided. For what? It's really sad.

The misinformation and conspiracy theories are initiated by just a few, and it's not by Johnny. For whatever motivation, there's others who amplify.

 

[dad4]

Cuomo was ignorant. DeSantis and Abbott both know exactly what they are doing.

Not just Cuomo. Cuomo and Levine. They both sent known covid patients back to nursing homes. They should boh be held responsible.

And, no, it wasn‘t ignorance. Why would you include liability immunity if you had no clue there might be a risk? They knew it was a risk, and they chose to do it anyway.

 

[crush]

Not just Cuomo. Cuomo and Levine. They both sent known covid patients back to nursing homes. They should boh be held responsible.

And, no, it wasn‘t ignorance. Why would you include liability immunity if you had no clue there might be a risk? They knew it was a risk, and they chose to do it anyway.

OK, maybe your not EOTL. He loved Cuomo and wanted him to run for President. Let's have an audit. Let's look at all the back & forth on email & text. The truth always comes out

 

[Desert Hound]

No reason, other than trying to avoid a hospital shit show like they had in Arizona.

You see, if CA had the same per capita covid death rate as AZ, an additional 36,000 people would have died.

36,000 extra deaths is what those ivory tower elitists call “a bad thing”.

Hospital shit show? Our ICUs never were full and had to turn away people. So if you got sick and needed care you had it. Now unfortunately like everywhere else in the US many operations, exams, were not scheduled and so that did affect people with other diseases (cancer, etc).

CA per million didn't do much better case wise vs AZ. We just have different populations which have different health issues. A lot of our deaths occurred on the reservations.

And so it isn't like CA did anything good. CO has about the same total cases per million as CA, but 300 or so less deaths per million? Why?
NM has about exactly the same cases per million as CA but 500 more deaths per million? Why? Hint they have lots of people living on reservations.

Etc etc. You conveniently and consistently ignore the above numbers because it doesn't fit into your mold/mindset of lockdowns work. Both CO and NM went the lockdown route similar to CA. Similar cases per million, but vastly different deaths per million.

Speaking of cases...CA has a hair less than 2 million active cases right now. AZ has about 64k.

 

[Grace T.]

I agree that the problems come in communication. It's been poor. The policy makers might or might not be getting good information, and frequently, they are not considering a full enough set of stakeholders. If you're not at the table, right? We needed transparent, well informed communication from the start, and we didn't get it. We deserve better, and I think most everyone is frustrated.

As a society, too many want to divide us into camps, and dismiss others if their opinion doesn't conform. We're not listening to each other's stories. Families are getting divided. For what? It's really sad.

The misinformation and conspiracy theories are initiated by just a few, and it's not by Johnny. For whatever motivation, there's others who amplify.

I wholeheartedly agree with this actually. Very well thought out.

but it’s not just division though…some groups feel (rightly or wrongly) they are held in active contempt by others, particularly when they dare to question their truth. This is true whether the blm activist who thinks they aren’t being listened to, or the sturgis roadster who wonders why the media is going after him but not Obama because his party was “vaccinated and sophisticated”.

 

[EvilGoalie 21]

Don't forget the many times you have compared the size of the virus to the pitch of the mask fabric.

I find it amusing when the discussion on cloth/surgical masks goes down the road of filtration, leading to them subsequently being dismissed as face diapers.

 

[EvilGoalie 21]

We both get each other.

If the talk turns to book banning I'm not so sure.

 

[crush]

I find it amusing when the discussion on cloth/surgical masks goes down the road of filtration, leading to them subsequently being dismissed as face diapers.

Hahahahaha, so amusing hahahahha. Folks losing their job, hahahahahah. Kids forced to wear a mask even though they obeyed their parents the first time for the jab and parents promised them jab=no mask and we can all go back to normal....... hahahahaha, so amusing and hahahahahaha so funny. I find it odd when people are forced into a horrible decision about jab or no job. That's fucking evil, to mess with one's mind and try and control it with liars who claim to be "experts." Experts my ass. They sold their soul like you obviously did and now have to deal with that decison. Game is over and good wins, yay!!! California will be one big Class Action. Everyone with a brain that is still a no for the jab, will have to get fired, if they got guts to do it. The nurses are on the front line and many are 100% a no for jab. That is not amusing and should WTFing people up but as long as evil is among us giving evil advice, then people will still make evil decisions. Hahahahahahahahahaha, so amusing!!!

 

[crush]

If the talk turns to book banning I'm not so sure.

No, I understand evil and good, light & darkness, Jesus & Satan. I'm not for banning books. I think you should read whatever you like. I'm not for forcing kids to wear a mask all day at school and be taught some crap in books they push. I would pull my kid out so fast today if they were younger. What a bunch of BS they push on kids these days! Evil is pushing hate books that divide and has evil in the hidden message in the book is what I would stay away from.

 

[watfly]

Universities are not controlled environments any more than large businesses or other institutions.

Not really my point about control. I'm talking about the studies themselves are in a controlled environment because they have to isolate the variables they are testing (that's my layman's explanation). Which is the proper way to conduct science but doesn't always translate to the real world. As a matter of note, the biggest difference between universities/education vs. the private sector is tenure. Tenure is a significant limiting factor on accountability.

How do you pick and choose which "expert" you trust?

That's the $1 million question, but I don't think were talking about asking your Uber driver for medical advice. Where talking about which epidemiologist are we supposed to believe? Should I believe the Fox expert or the CNN expert? I say do your own research, take everything with a grain of salt and make the decision that's best for your family. Be accountable for those decisions. I have an issue when politicians cherry pick their experts to make my personal health choices. Is this the perfect solution, nope, far from it. There is the larger public health policy issues and people are going to make the wrong decisions. Some will make the wrong decision and then not be accountable...which is very common these days with the growth of the "victim mentality". Individual freedom is not the perfect solution put it is far more consistent with the values our Country was founded on, which also includes the assumption of risk.

At the end of the day I can live with the restrictions for myself as an adult, but I can't condone what has been done to our children. It's reprehensible what we have done to them in the name of safety theater. Those that claim that mandating masks for all children is for their safety are either 1) lying, they are really more concerned about getting Covid from a kid or 2) so overcome with fear that its destroyed their common sense. Let kids learn, smile and laugh, but most importantly let them breath.

 

[Desert Hound]

Update on San Diego County Covid and kids:

99.95% of age 0-19 have not been hospitalized with Covid in the last 18 months. (525 hospitalizations vs population of 867,245)
99.9998% of age 0-19 have not died with Covid in the last 18 months. (2 deaths vs population of 867,245)

Those numbers seem real scary to me. I have changed my stance. The better start wearing masks that don't help, but do virtue signal that their hearts are in the right place.

 

[Desert Hound]

That’s why the recent tech tendency to censor info is so dangerous.

It may be the most dangerous thing to our society in all honesty.

And most people don't know, don't care, are fine with it, etc.

 

[watfly]

Back in the fall I had a secondary bacterial infection that nearly killed me which they think resulted from a weakened immune system from covid. I knew the antibiotic wasn’t working but my gp and specialist insisted that I play out the entire course, even one night when I was on the floor in agony screaming in front of my kids. I insisted on being switched instead of going off and taking another culture. Doctors argued but gave in. It saves my life the doctors conceded.

same Story on covid…day 10 couldn’t breath…it was at the beginning and they didn’t know what to do…I told my doc put me in a steroid. Doc said it kept me out of the hospital saved my life maybe.

2008 my financial advisor told me to hold certain assets. I told her the bottom was about to drop out. She called me crazy. I was spared the worst (my younger sibling did not listen and bought at the top of a bubble)

no you don’t listen to you mechanic for cancer. You do assume the experts are idiots and rather than defer you question the hell out of them. The internet is also the great info leveler which is why the experts have been routinely been beaten by knowledgeable outsiders. The entire idea of the enlightenment was not to follow blindly but to think critically. That’s why the recent tech tendency to censor info is so dangerous.

At the end of the day you have to be your own advocate. My dad had some severe complications after a surgery. My mom told the doctor that he was dehydrated. The doctor scolded my mom "what do you know hydration". He adamantly denied that that was the problem. After some back and forth and advocacy from the nurse they pumped him full of fluids. He was back to normal in less than a day.

The problem is not that some doctors and experts are stupid. The problem is they're arrogant and are not to be questioned. It's the same arrogance from politicians and public health officials that think they know what's best for everyone.

 

[espola]

Not really my point about control. I'm talking about the studies themselves are in a controlled environment because they have to isolate the variables they are testing (that's my layman's explanation). Which is the proper way to conduct science but doesn't always translate to the real world. As a matter of note, the biggest difference between universities/education vs. the private sector is tenure. Tenure is a significant limiting factor on accountability.


That's the $1 million question, but I don't think were talking about asking your Uber driver for medical advice. Where talking about which epidemiologist are we supposed to believe? Should I believe the Fox expert or the CNN expert? I say do your own research, take everything with a grain of salt and make the decision that's best for your family. Be accountable for those decisions. I have an issue when politicians cherry pick their experts to make my personal health choices. Is this the perfect solution, nope, far from it. There is the larger public health policy issues and people are going to make the wrong decisions. Some will make the wrong decision and then not be accountable...which is very common these days with the growth of the "victim mentality". Individual freedom is not the perfect solution put it is far more consistent with the values our Country was founded on, which also includes the assumption of risk.

At the end of the day I can live with the restrictions for myself as an adult, but I can't condone what has been done to our children. It's reprehensible what we have done to them in the name of safety theater. Those that claim that mandating masks for all children is for their safety are either 1) lying, they are really more concerned about getting Covid from a kid or 2) so overcome with fear that its destroyed their common sense. Let kids learn, smile and laugh, but most importantly let them breath.

You're after tenure now?

Tell me you don't know what you are talking about without actually saying "I don't know what I'm talking about".

 

[watfly]

You're after tenure now?

Tell me you don't know what you are talking about without actually saying "I don't know what I'm talking about".

I have always hated tenure, but this is the first time I could sneak it into the conversation. Was that too much of a stretch?

I'd say about 50% of the time I don't know what I'm talking about, but I think it sounds really good. Your the fact checker, do you think its less than 50%? I'm open to revising downward.

 

[Kicker4Life]

Not really. Politicians who think they are above the rules are dime a dozen in both parties.

I am much more angry at the deliberate incompetence which results in deaths. Cuomo and Levine for restocking the nursing homses with fresh covid patients. DeSantis and Abbott for blocking mask rules in the middle of an outbreak.

There should be no mandate for masks…if you are concerned, wear one, if not, don’t. The hospital I’ll is yours to pay if needed.