Vaccine

[Soccerfan2]

Yet, the article boils everything down to 6 grossly oversimplified "dichotomies". You don't find that incredibly ironic? For example it's not "health-lives vs economy-livelihoods" its "covid health vs other health conditions, mental health, education, economy, livelihoods, social well-being etc." We've isolated one issue above everything else. These aren't 1v1 issues, these are 1v1,000's of issues.

I appreciate you providing this, there is some thoughtful questions and good information. The problem is there is just a ton of conflicting information out there, much of which pretends you can isolate cause and effect to a single variable. You can't, life doesn't exist in a lab.

The other problem is the pace at which information is changing. Pre-pandemic X was true, and had been true for a very long time. That X has now changed 5 times in the last 18 months. I appreciate that X can change as more information becomes available, but you can't expect everyone to jump on the bandwagon every time X changes. A reasonable person is going to say "hey, wait a second....".

I also find this statement incredibly arrogant:
Public health experts, economists, social scientists, and bioethicists must work jointly to assist governments in shaping the best policies that protect
the overall societal well-being.

These are ivory tower, 10,000 foot view people. I want people on the ground floor and front lines giving input. People that deal with issues in real life on a day to day basis. Not some lab or university classroom hermit deciding what's best for me and my neighbors.

I appreciate that the pandemic is unprecedented, but pre-pandemic if you had sent your kid to school and out in public with a N95 mask for the entirety of the flu season, you would be getting reported to CPS by someone, likely a teacher, and rightly so. That's fucked up that this behavior is perfectly acceptable now given the negligible risk to children and its not the children's responsibility to protect adults.

Teacher here. Opposite my expectations, 95% of my 6-7 year olds don’t care. They’re perfectly used to wearing the mask. We take them off when we go outside, and I have to remind them every single day to take them off. I rarely have to remind them to put them on. I hate wearing the mask, but it’s not that big a deal. It sure did seem to cut down on the spread of illness of all kinds from kid to kid last year. Kids don’t have political bias so their reaction is quite pure and uncomplicated.

 

[Roadrunner]

These are ivory tower, 10,000 foot view people. I want people on the ground floor and front lines giving input. People that deal with issues in real life on a day to day basis. Not some lab or university classroom hermit deciding what's best for me and my neighbors.

So people who write research articles and reviews, who conduct, analyze, study, invent, discover, teach, explore and create new things are fake people who don't deal with real issues, don't have real lives? and they only live in the ivory tower neighborhood as hermits? That's a myth used to dismiss others. Aren't we all neighbors? What world do you live in?

 

[crush]

See below what soccer fan 2 said

I broke down your quote with my take in (( )). Thanks for being Honest, Open and Transparent with how you feel and teach.

"Teacher here." ((thanks for sharing))

"Opposite my expectations" ((it's good to look at both points of view))

"95% of my 6-7 year olds don’t care." ((what city you teach in?))

"They’re perfectly used to wearing the mask." ((yes, when you train a child, they will do as trained and told))

"We take them off when we go outside," ((oh good))

"I have to remind them every single day to take them off." ((This breaks my heart and pisses me off at the same time))

"I rarely have to remind them to put them on." ((Again, you have proven the point how brainwashed some kids are))

"I hate wearing the mask," ((but?))

"but it’s not that big a deal." ((Because I do as I'm told so I can get paid))

"It sure did seem to cut down on the spread of illness of all kinds from kid to kid last year." ((and? So force kids to wear a mask to cut spread of other illnesses?))

"Kids don’t have political bias" ((No, but their teachers sure do and their lies the problem))

"Their reaction is quite pure and uncomplicated." ((Pure is 100% true and anyone messing with them will have a millstone tied around their neck when this is all over with. No offense, but this is why were in this mess. Some teachers ((not all)) think it's ok to get jabbed as many times as told, wear mask 24/7 and take boosters. You guys are their sells reps and pushing the Jab or a punishment. Study up on the Nuremberg Code, MOO!!))

 

[NorCalDad]

Grace doesn't care about data. She is just trying to rationalize a prepared political position.

Which also cues all the references to quacks on Twitter....I still can't read a @Grace T. post here without remembering some of the links she would send out trying to support her argument. Hard to forget those.

 

[crush]

At least the Governor is wearing a mask, right? It's so obvious what his real health issue but some just can;t see the truth.

 

[espola]

Which also cues all the references to quacks on Twitter....I still can't read a @Grace T. post here without remembering some of the links she would send out trying to support her argument. Hard to forget those.

I've had a hard time believing that one person could get so many things wrong day after day, unless she has a staff working for her.

 

[kickingandscreaming]

I also find this statement incredibly arrogant:
Public health experts, economists, social scientists, and bioethicists must work jointly to assist governments in shaping the best policies that protect
the overall societal well-being.

Yeah, let's let less than 0.1% of the population decide what we are allowed to do on a daily basis. Paternalism and elitism under the guise of "policies that protect".

 

[kickingandscreaming]

I've had a hard time believing that one person could get so many things wrong day after day, unless she has a staff working for her.

Which ones?

 

[crush]

Yeah, let's let less than 0.1% of the population decide what we are allowed to do on a daily basis. Paternalism and elitism under the guise of "policies that protect".

K & S, if you truly know me, you know it was my Elitist bloodline that had evil tricks up their sleeves for me before my conception and birth. It was all planned for the "Golden Lamb." Sick shit bro that I would never make up. It's worth repeating to help those who think physical only and this life is it and they just die and no more soul. Nope, way more to life then then going back to the ground. The life I know to be true is amazing, I promise. You see, we were all slaves to the masters of this world and those masters are trying to get everyone jabbed. This is a once in a lifetime chance to choose love and goodness over hate, fear and evil. No ifs and or butts about that. Control monsters that have no heart. They do have eternal soul and they already know death is not the end of nothing, only the beginning of eternity. Humans have no clue and are just scared to die. My bloodline was up to no good from what I was told by my foster parents and the research I did. Free Masons, Scottish Rite kind of family with 33 degrees and a list of evil that even, eye, yes me, can get a little spooked by. However, I know the truth and like I have said 100 times, I have had more than 9 lives on this short 55 years on planet earth. I not scared of death and have zero fear of it or the virus. No fear. I think that bugs people who are Science Magicians and trick people with half truths or no truth but they just say it;s true. If i told you everything I know to be true, you would either not believe me like Espola, believe like EOTL and support 80,000,000 abortions from the Plan for the Parent in the Hood or you just might not want to talk with me at all because these discussions can make one feel uneasy or even puke when they find the F out WTF is really going on. No one is going to escape the truth. Its what you do with the truth that matters. I spook some folks. I call them as I see them and I'm not always right. Question everything but if your going to open your mouth, you Best, Better be Great at answering those with super deep spiritual questions about what's after death and how can I prepare for IT.

 

[watfly]

So people who write research articles and reviews, who conduct, analyze, study, invent, discover, teach, explore and create new things are fake people who don't deal with real issues, don't have real lives? and they only live in the ivory tower neighborhood as hermits? That's a myth used to dismiss others. Aren't we all neighbors? What world do you live in?

Often times, yes, they are out of touch with the real world because they live in a controlled environment where they can control variables. They are well meaning but are often not subject to the negative impacts of their own conclusions. In the real world variables can't be controlled. They do provide valuable input and it should be considered to some extent, but they shouldn't solely be relied on. However, during the pandemic we've continued to ignore doctors who were treating Covid patients and having successful results but were ignored because some study didn't have similar results in their controlled study. We've ignored small business owners who were super creative in providing safe places yet were still shut down. We also ignored small business owners who said if you pay people for not working they will have trouble getting employees (this is a huge problem right now and is stifling recovery). We ignored small property owners who couldn't evict their non-paying tenants and have been forced to either sell the property or are now in default on the mortgage.

I've mentioned this before, but I used to give expert witness testimony. We always loved it when the "expert" on the other side was a professor because we knew their opinion would always be theoretical, and rarely related to what actually happened. So yes I'm incredibly skeptical of those that only have education and not real world experience.

 

[dad4]

Often times, yes, they are out of touch with the real world because they live in a controlled environment where they can control variables. They are well meaning but are often not subject to the negative impacts of their own conclusions. In the real world variables can't be controlled. They do provide valuable input and it should be considered to some extent, but they shouldn't solely be relied on. However, during the pandemic we've continued to ignore doctors who were treating Covid patients and having successful results but were ignored because some study didn't have similar results in their controlled study. We've ignored small business owners who were super creative in providing safe places yet were still shut down. We also ignored small business owners who said if you pay people for not working they will have trouble getting employees (this is a huge problem right now and is stifling recovery). We ignored small property owners who couldn't evict their non-paying tenants and have been forced to either sell the property or are now in default on the mortgage.

I've mentioned this before, but I used to give expert witness testimony. We always loved it when the "expert" on the other side was a professor because we knew their opinion would always be theoretical, and rarely related to what actually happened. So yes I'm incredibly skeptical of those that only have education and not real world experience.

The last I checked, medical professionals still go out to dinner, send their kids to school, and have families. They suffered in exactly the same way as the rest of us. When schools were closed, epidemiologists’ kids were stuck on zoom like everyone else.

We do have elected officials to represent us in this. Your complaint is that, after talking to the experts, your elected officials did not do what you wanted.

Get in line. Elected officials don’t always do what I want either.

 

[crush]

Often times, yes, they are out of touch with the real world because they live in a controlled environment where they can control variables. They are well meaning but are often not subject to the negative impacts of their own conclusions. In the real world variables can't be controlled. They do provide valuable input and it should be considered to some extent, but they shouldn't solely be relied on. However, during the pandemic we've continued to ignore doctors who were treating Covid patients and having successful results but were ignored because some study didn't have similar results in their controlled study. We've ignored small business owners who were super creative in providing safe places yet were still shut down. We also ignored small business owners who said if you pay people for not working they will have trouble getting employees (this is a huge problem right now and is stifling recovery). We ignored small property owners who couldn't evict their non-paying tenants and have been forced to either sell the property or are now in default on the mortgage.

I've mentioned this before, but I used to give expert witness testimony. We always loved it when the "expert" on the other side was a professor because we knew their opinion would always be theoretical, and rarely related to what actually happened. So yes I'm incredibly skeptical of those that only have education and not real world experience.

Excellent take Wat Fly and you have first hand experience. You seem to like the truth and I bet like to watch people lie under oath and squirm like a little worm, like when a video camera, lights & action and when lot's of questions are pepper sprayed. Even the best liar will get his ass handed to him on cross examination with email and texts attached. The Truth & Justice Train is coming for us all! Stop lying, cheating, bribing, blackmailing, black list, intimidate or whatever you do to win and look good. If your in high places of leadership, do not give out false or deadly misinformation during a war. Trust me on this one you guys. I care about all of you and your being watched big time. Nuremberg Code is a Law for ALL humans. It's basic human rights 101.

 

[Desert Hound]

When schools were closed, epidemiologists’ kids were stuck on zoom like everyone else.

Let me fix that for you.

When schools were closed FOR NO REASON IN STATES LIKE CA, epidemiologists' kids were stuck on zoom like everyone else.

 

[crush]

Let me fix that for you.

When schools were closed FOR NO REASON IN STATES LIKE CA, epidemiologists' kids were stuck on zoom like everyone else.

Hound, unfortunately their is a reason for all this and it's not good.

 

[Grace T.]

I've had a hard time believing that one person could get so many things wrong day after day, unless she has a staff working for her.

That’s funny considering my record…it’s even funnier considering your record

 

[watfly]

Teacher here. Opposite my expectations, 95% of my 6-7 year olds don’t care. They’re perfectly used to wearing the mask. We take them off when we go outside, and I have to remind them every single day to take them off. I rarely have to remind them to put them on. I hate wearing the mask, but it’s not that big a deal. It sure did seem to cut down on the spread of illness of all kinds from kid to kid last year. Kids don’t have political bias so their reaction is quite pure and uncomplicated.

No offense, but that's conditioning, not informed consent, and I find it incredibly sad.

And I agree, I don't care about adults having to wear masks, big deal. However, the negative impacts of having to wear a mask for children far outweigh the risks of Covid, and its not the children's responsibility to protect adults from Covid. That's the adults responsibility.

Thank you for being a teacher.

 

[dad4]

Let me fix that for you.

When schools were closed FOR NO REASON IN STATES LIKE CA, epidemiologists' kids were stuck on zoom like everyone else.

No reason, other than trying to avoid a hospital shit show like they had in Arizona.

You see, if CA had the same per capita covid death rate as AZ, an additional 36,000 people would have died.

36,000 extra deaths is what those ivory tower elitists call “a bad thing”.

 

[Grace T.]

So people who write research articles and reviews, who conduct, analyze, study, invent, discover, teach, explore and create new things are fake people who don't deal with real issues, don't have real lives? and they only live in the ivory tower neighborhood as hermits? That's a myth used to dismiss others. Aren't we all neighbors? What world do you live in?

The opposite argument which is thrown around by people in your camp is we should “trust the experts”. There are several issues with “trust the experts” such as their experiences are limited by being from the same background, they have similar political tendencies, they are subject to group think, there’s a tendency towards comformity both from societal pressure in your peer group and impacts on career advancement, it breeds an arrogance that they know better and should not be questioned by outsiders. But the 2008 financial crash is a good example about why experts fail and they can be shown up by picky groups of outsiders with a contrarian streak. We’ve seen it in other fields too, most recently the Afghanistan debacle.

 

[crush]

No reason, other than trying to avoid a hospital shit show like they had in Arizona.

You see, if CA had the same per capita covid death rate as AZ, an additional 36,000 people would have died.

36,000 extra deaths is what those ivory tower elitists call “a bad thing”.

Dad, your sounding a lot like EOTL.......I think your EOTL.

 

[crush]

That’s funny considering my record…it’s even funnier considering your record

Dude is all over you Grace. I wonder why Espola, EOTL and Dad 4 have it for you?