Vaccine

[watfly]

The last I checked, medical professionals still go out to dinner, send their kids to school, and have families. They suffered in exactly the same way as the rest of us. When schools were closed, epidemiologists’ kids were stuck on zoom like everyone else.

We do have elected officials to represent us in this. Your complaint is that, after talking to the experts, your elected officials did not do what you wanted.

Get in line. Elected officials don’t always do what I want either.

How many payroll checks have you missed in the last 18 months? How many people have you attempted to hire in the last 18 months? How many rent checks did you try to collect in the last 18 months? Just get in line? This is the exact arrogance that I'm referring to.

Now admittedly relative to everyone else our family did great during Covid, in part because we took a common sense approach to Covid and not a fear based approach. I was really lucky too because business was great. However, many were much less fortunate. Mostly children because of the burdens we put on them, because adults couldn't handle their own business.

Right now we can't open our youth services club houses to full capacity, because we can't get employees due to the overly generous unemployment benefits. We serve underprivileged kids, they are now left without a safe place to go to after school.

We need to stop making decisions based solely on the opinions of "experts" and start considering the input of stakeholders.

 

[dad4]

The opposite argument which is thrown around by people in your camp is we should “trust the experts”. There are several issues with “trust the experts” such as their experiences are limited by being from the same background, they have similar political tendencies, they are subject to group think, there’s a tendency towards comformity both from societal pressure in your peer group and impacts on career advancement, it breeds an arrogance that they know better and should not be questioned by outsiders. But the 2008 financial crash is a good example about why experts fail and they can be shown up by picky groups of outsiders with a contrarian streak. We’ve seen it in other fields too, most recently the Afghanistan debacle.

Trusting the experts may be bad, but the alternative is worse.

What is happening right now in places where every individual decides for themself whether masks work and whether vaccines work?

The current death rate in those states is about five times the death rate in the “follow the experts” states.

 

[Grace T.]

Which ones?

Let’s review some of my record:

-China would be unable to contain covid
-trump minimizing the covid threat in state of the union
-first on these forums to say we have an issue, mic would be canceled, soccer shut down
-predicted lockdowns nearly a month before they happened (had a full closet of tp)
-predicted the stock market crash (though I concede I didn’t think the recovery would be as advanced)
-advised kiddos school that they’d be shut down..they were ready to go remote day 1
-said 14 days to slow spread was nonsense
-said lockdowns would be proven to be much less effective than expected unless they were hardcore Australian lockdowns.
-thought masks indoors were a good idea, thought the cloth masks would be proven to have minimal effectiveness
-thought masks outdoors and outdoor restrictions were idiotic and would be proven counter productive
-thought masks being better than vaccines was radical oversell
-though schools closed in fall/sports closed were unwarranted and were lower risk give. The cost
-thought there would be a s show of an election
-predicted a very harsh winter wave (on which dad4 and I concurred)
-predicted political violence after the election
-predicted the current inflationary pressures
-said tx Florida removal of restrictions wouldn’t lead to an increase
-said something was up in India which would turn into a more severe global wave
-predicted Asia would go through a much more severe delta wave
-predicted the office reopening in SoCal would be delayed
-warned of the vaccine mandates and coming fight
-concurred with dad 4 about the delta wave but I argued it would be here earlier than fall

the biggest thing I got wrong was in summer 2020 that there might be a threshold where T cell immunity might reduce the level of contagion (though I still think it was part of the answer in Asia with covid prime). What about Espolas record

 

[Grace T.]

Dude is all over you Grace. I wonder why Espola, EOTL and Dad 4 have it for you?

Yeah I wonder…hmmm???

 

[Grace T.]

Trusting the experts may be bad, but the alternative is worse.

What is happening right now in places where every individual decides for themself whether masks work and whether vaccines work?

The current death rate in those states is about five times the death rate in the “follow the experts” states.

Sigh this is the same thing you guys said last summer then winter hit

 

[watfly]

The pace of knowledge has been impressive, and yes, full of studies of varying quality with conflicting information. There's still much unknown and unknowable - and that's uncomfortable. The bad actors deliberately spreading streams of disinformation and misinformation don't help either. Anyone who has to be setting policies or just trying to make decisions for their family is likely to feel frustrated. And when the policies don't seem to be aligned with accurate information, it is also frustrating.

Whose spreading the misinformation? It's mostly coming from the "ists" with their mixed messaging. The Misinformation in Chief is Fauci. The media is also guilty because they either are trying to fit a narrative (like politicians) or they simply don't understand what they are reporting.

There seems to be this sentiment that the problem is Johnny Q Redneck is spreading misinformation on social media. Johnny Q Redneck is not the problem, he has no credibility. The biggest problem is the "experts" and the media that have implied credibility.

 

[EvilGoalie 21]

Elected officials don’t always do what I want either.

Yep. Consent of the governed is indeed a path down which many current events lead.

 

[crush]

Whose spreading the misinformation? It's mostly coming from the "ists" with their mixed messaging. The Misinformation in Chief is Fauci. The media is also guilty because they either are trying to fit a narrative (like politicians) or they simply don't understand what they are reporting.

There seems to be this sentiment that the problem is Johnny Q Redneck is spreading misinformation on social media. Johnny Q Redneck is not the problem, he has no credibility. The biggest problem is the "experts" and the media that have implied credibility.

It's complete BS what I have endured as a Golden Child. I'm sick of this, truly I am. I wake up to blond hair every morning still and I'm 54. I never followed this Q thing until after the election was ripped off. The experts are liars and that is not a good thing, especially of the masses are asking for truth and Justice for all. All I ever wanted was to live with people who care for others and follow the truth. The things these little monsters say about me is really getting on my nerves.

 

[crush]

Yep. Consent of the governed is indeed a path down which many current events lead.

Watch this Evil. It's sad to think both men probably be alive if the lie was not allowed. It makes a point about what has really been going on behind the scenes of the most evil people on earth. This all goes together with their evil plan. Get off the evil train dude before it's too late. Unless of course you like to play with evil.

 

[dad4]

Let’s review some of my record:

-China would be unable to contain covid
-trump minimizing the covid threat in state of the union
-first on these forums to say we have an issue, mic would be canceled, soccer shut down
-predicted lockdowns nearly a month before they happened (had a full closet of tp)
-predicted the stock market crash (though I concede I didn’t think the recovery would be as advanced)
-advised kiddos school that they’d be shut down..they were ready to go remote day 1
-said 14 days to slow spread was nonsense
-said lockdowns would be proven to be much less effective than expected unless they were hardcore Australian lockdowns.
-thought masks indoors were a good idea, thought the cloth masks would be proven to have minimal effectiveness
-thought masks outdoors and outdoor restrictions were idiotic and would be proven counter productive
-thought masks being better than vaccines was radical oversell
-though schools closed in fall/sports closed were unwarranted and were lower risk give. The cost
-thought there would be a s show of an election
-predicted a very harsh winter wave (on which dad4 and I concurred)
-predicted political violence after the election
-predicted the current inflationary pressures
-said tx Florida removal of restrictions wouldn’t lead to an increase
-said something was up in India which would turn into a more severe global wave
-predicted Asia would go through a much more severe delta wave
-predicted the office reopening in SoCal would be delayed
-warned of the vaccine mandates and coming fight
-concurred with dad 4 about the delta wave but I argued it would be here earlier than fall

the biggest thing I got wrong was in summer 2020 that there might be a threshold where T cell immunity might reduce the level of contagion (though I still think it was part of the answer in Asia with covid prime). What about Espolas record

The biggest thing you got wrong is your continued insistence that masks do not limit spread from an infected person to others.

And you still get it wrong.

Check your Florida numbers, too. They seem to have had an increase, after all.

 

[Soccerfan2]

No offense, but that's conditioning, not informed consent, and I find it incredibly sad.

And I agree, I don't care about adults having to wear masks, big deal. However, the negative impacts of having to wear a mask for children far outweigh the risks of Covid, and its not the children's responsibility to protect adults from Covid. That's the adults responsibility.

Thank you for being a teacher.

Politics certainly are a heavy filter. It takes intention to see through it.

 

[Grace T.]

The biggest thing you got wrong is your continued insistence that masks do not limit spread from an infected person to others.

And you still get it wrong.

Check your Florida numbers, too. They seem to have had an increase, after all.

Against prime I said help a little. Against delta I said only surgical plus and n95s make an impact. If you want to play “check the numbers”: check the uk the day mask mandates went away, or Iceland or Israel now, or to go to favorite hits Los Angeles in the winter.

 

[EvilGoalie 21]

Watch this Evil. It's sad to think both men probably be alive if the lie was not allowed. It makes a point about what has really been going on behind the scenes of the most evil people on earth. This all goes together with their evil plan. Get off the evil train dude before it's too late. Unless of course you like to play with evil.

Sorry, don't click on stuff like that. the other night I decided it was timely to go back and look at this great book the Kite Runner. About a person who lived through true evil and sought to find peace. Here is a quote.

"I wondered if that was how forgiveness budded; not with the fanfare of epiphany, but with pain gathering its things, packing up, and slipping away unannounced in the middle of the night."

 

[espola]

Let’s review some of my record:

-China would be unable to contain covid
-trump minimizing the covid threat in state of the union
-first on these forums to say we have an issue, mic would be canceled, soccer shut down
-predicted lockdowns nearly a month before they happened (had a full closet of tp)
-predicted the stock market crash (though I concede I didn’t think the recovery would be as advanced)
-advised kiddos school that they’d be shut down..they were ready to go remote day 1
-said 14 days to slow spread was nonsense
-said lockdowns would be proven to be much less effective than expected unless they were hardcore Australian lockdowns.
-thought masks indoors were a good idea, thought the cloth masks would be proven to have minimal effectiveness
-thought masks outdoors and outdoor restrictions were idiotic and would be proven counter productive
-thought masks being better than vaccines was radical oversell
-though schools closed in fall/sports closed were unwarranted and were lower risk give. The cost
-thought there would be a s show of an election
-predicted a very harsh winter wave (on which dad4 and I concurred)
-predicted political violence after the election
-predicted the current inflationary pressures
-said tx Florida removal of restrictions wouldn’t lead to an increase
-said something was up in India which would turn into a more severe global wave
-predicted Asia would go through a much more severe delta wave
-predicted the office reopening in SoCal would be delayed
-warned of the vaccine mandates and coming fight
-concurred with dad 4 about the delta wave but I argued it would be here earlier than fall

the biggest thing I got wrong was in summer 2020 that there might be a threshold where T cell immunity might reduce the level of contagion (though I still think it was part of the answer in Asia with covid prime). What about Espolas record

Don't forget the many times you have compared the size of the virus to the pitch of the mask fabric.

 

[crush]

Against prime I said help a little. Against delta I said only surgical plus and n95s make an impact. If you want to play “check the numbers”: check the uk the day mask mandates went away, or Iceland or Israel now, or to go to favorite hits Los Angeles in the winter.

Dad is losing it big time. You have been so in the middle you piss me off sometimes Grace. I said it before and I will say it again, I think you would have made a good judge or mediator. I know a mediator who makes $8,000 for a days work and some paper work. All satire aside, dad does seem emotional today and using four letter words like EOTL did. It was about two years ago that I allowed the "F: word to come out of my mouth from the pit of my stomach. I held the "F" word in for 31 years. I never cuzzed, ask my kids and my wife. She would never have married me if I swore, I swear to the Lord. I dont swear at people either or if I did by accident it was wrong. It was needed to make my point crystal clear to some evil farts and it worked for what I used it for. I now realize that the "F" word is for all of us to use, just use it carefully and not too much and only to help people see their foolish ways. My Evangelical Religious pals think I'm in sin. We agree to disagree and I will let the Lord sort all the judging and the rewards. That's his job, not mine. I'm only hear to poke people with the truth. Bottom line Grace, Dads numbers look like shit again and his brain is all fucked up Looking for straws to grasp when there are no more straws to grasp, makes one look like a complete moron!

 

[crush]

The other night I ((Evil)) decided it was timely to go back and look at this great book the Kite Runner. About a person who lived through true evil and sought to find peace.

Why is The Kite Runner a banned book?

The Kite Runner has been on the American Library Association's top ten lists for most challenged books in 2008 (for offensive language, sexually explicit material, and being unsuited to age group), in 2012 (for depictions of homosexuality, offensive language, religious viewpoints, sexually explicit), in 2014

Is The Kite Runner a true story?

No, The Kite Runner is not a true story.

I get you Evil, I really do. To know Evil is to do Evil, right? I played on both sides when I was younger ((experimenting with dark shit)) and saw the "good vs evil" choice early on. We both get each other.

 

[Kicker4Life]

We do have elected officials to represent us in this. Your complaint is that, after talking to the experts, your elected officials did not do what you wanted..

What about when your elected official makes one set of rules for the population yet lives free of those rules in his/her life?

Feelings in that one?

 

[dad4]

Against prime I said help a little. Against delta I said only surgical plus and n95s make an impact. If you want to play “check the numbers”: check the uk the day mask mandates went away, or Iceland or Israel now, or to go to favorite hits Los Angeles in the winter.

If you’re going to try to understand epidemiology at that level, take a class in biological dynamical systems.

You keep making the same error misunderstanding the effect of a change to R.

You falsely believe that “a reduction to transmissibility means cases will drop”. Then, when the world fails to match your misunderstanding, you assume that transmissibility must not have been impacted.

You’re way out of your depth here, and you are giving advice which will harm people, if they believe it.

 

[Grace T.]

Dad is losing it big time. You have been so in the middle you piss me off sometimes Grace. I said it before and I will say it again, I think you would have made a good judge or mediator. I know a mediator who makes $8,000 for a days work and some paper work. All satire aside, dad does seem emotional today and using four letter words like EOTL did. It was about two years ago that I allowed the "F: word to come out of my mouth from the pit of my stomach. I helf the "F" word in for 31 years. I never cuzzed, as my kids and my wife. She would never have married me if I swore. I dont swear at people. It was needed to make my point crystal clear and it worked for what I used it for. I now realize that the "F" word is for all us to use, just use it carefully and not too much and only to help people see their foolish hearts. My Evangelical Religious pals think I'm in sin. We agree to disagree and I will let the Lord sort all the judging and the rewards. That's his job, not mine. I'm only hear to poke people with the truth. Bottom line Grace, Dads numbers look like shit again and his brain is all fucked up Looking for straws to grasp when there are no more straws to grasp, makes one look like a complete moron!

Here’s another little prediction: I think both team panic and team reason are at the edge of their patience with each other. The slow moving collapse of the Biden admin isn’t helping things…while there was the appearance of leadership it’s enough to keep things in check. Barring another unifier like 9/11 or something or a reset such as Biden resigning for health reasons, that check on things is gone now. Things get more ugly here particularly as we head into winter and there are more (particularly school) disruptions (even if just schools disrupted due to exposures). I’m not 100% on board with a bad winter wave but if the info showing the vaccine weakens 8 months out is true (and there does appear to be at least some solid evidence this is the case), we could be in for a bad one…my variable right now is whether the delta burns out and/or is replaced by another variant. The summer southern delta wave from here moves north but don’t know yet how long it will last.

 

[dad4]

What about when your elected official makes one set of rules for the population yet lives free of those rules in his/her life?

Feelings in that one?

Not really. Politicians who think they are above the rules are dime a dozen in both parties.

I am much more angry at the deliberate incompetence which results in deaths. Cuomo and Levine for restocking the nursing homses with fresh covid patients. DeSantis and Abbott for blocking mask rules in the middle of an outbreak.