Vaccine

whatithink said:
The UK government has a variety of contingency plans in preparation for a potential winter surge, for England, as health is devolved there and Scotland, Wales & N Ireland can and do have separate policies.

They include
- reintroduction of some nationwide restrictions such as social distancing or masks (based on NHS capacity)
- introduction of Covid boosters (at least for the most vulnerable but possibly wider)
- biggest ever flu jab campaign
- Covid passports to access large, crowded venues such as nightclubs
- shortly to give the go ahead for vaccination in children 12 to 15

UK (not England) vaccination rates are at 66% (of total population), with at least 1 shot at 72%.
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British press is reporting Johnson will outline winter plans for England (the other kingdoms being subject to local control) on Tuesday:

1. they dropped the vaccine passport for most venues (likely remains for some like air travel). There was a study that said the passport makes the holdouts less likely to get it, and if their scientists are right and the vaccine is like the flu vaccine (and not chicken pox) and people can still transmit, there’s no point
2. Boosters for folks that want them with vulnerable getting first priority.
3. a flu jab campaign
4. The go ahead will likely be given for 12-15 but not mandates. If the Uk scientists are right, it does nothing to help this age group (in which the unvaccinated are safer than a vaxxed 50 year old) and the vaccines may only help limit (not control) community soread
5. The coronavirus act will be allowed to expire but the pm will maintain broad powers to mask and lockdown under the health act. But there will be no plans (only contingencies) for winter as the uk is placing it’s better on vaccination.
 
Grace T. said:
British press is reporting Johnson will outline winter plans for England (the other kingdoms being subject to local control) on Tuesday:

1. they dropped the vaccine passport for most venues (likely remains for some like air travel). There was a study that said the passport makes the holdouts less likely to get it, and if their scientists are right and the vaccine is like the flu vaccine (and not chicken pox) and people can still transmit, there’s no point
2. Boosters for folks that want them with vulnerable getting first priority.
3. a flu jab campaign
4. The go ahead will likely be given for 12-15 but not mandates. If the Uk scientists are right, it does nothing to help this age group (in which the unvaccinated are safer than a vaxxed 50 year old) and the vaccines may only help limit (not control) community soread
5. The coronavirus act will be allowed to expire but the pm will maintain broad powers to mask and lockdown under the health act. But there will be no plans (only contingencies) for winter as the uk is placing it’s better on vaccination.
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Harrison Pitt draws lessons for 2020-2021 from Hayek’s 1944 book, The Road to Serfdom. Two slices:

While the situation varies across the Anglosphere, in all of its countries, from Australia to Britain, the relationship between the individual and the state has fundamentally transformed — and these conditions will likely outlive the pandemic. Sydney remains under a draconian lockdown, as does New Zealand after the discovery of just one case of the coronavirus. The British and Canadian governments intend to make freedom conditional on state-issued vaccine passports, while President Joe Biden, fresh from his Afghanistan debacle, recently called on parents to mask up their children when they leave the house.

These measures can easily be relaxed or intensified by government officials at a moment’s notice. But while restrictions can be tweaked, few in power have renounced the overarching authority they represent. In this sense, they are symbols of an abiding new normal, which, before 2020, was utterly unthinkable in free societies.

Hayek’s defense of liberty was driven by more than a moral revulsion to state force. He also argued that letting individuals take personal responsibility for their lives makes greater practical sense. Hayek’s ingenious arguments against a centrally run economy, therefore, are equally devastating to the idea of a centrally run biosecurity state.
 
Hayek also understood that such temporary measures, implemented for a limited purpose, rarely remain that way. In Law, Legislation and Liberty, Hayek accepted that sometimes the liberal order ‘may yet have to be temporarily suspended when the long-run preservation of that order is itself threatened. During such emergencies, be it a war on germs or Germans, protecting civil society itself becomes the ‘overruling common purpose’.

But when defined vaguely enough, that ‘overruling common purpose’ can be invoked to continue denying liberty even after the initial threat has waned or passed. As Hayek wrote, ‘”Emergencies” have always been the pretext on which the safeguards of individual liberty have been eroded — and once they are suspended it is not difficult for anyone who has assumed emergency powers to see to it that the emergency will persist.’

If anything, it is harder for governments to relinquish such powers. Once people get attached to the idea of a benevolent, all-caring state, it appears compassionless to return to normal. COVID restrictions were initially put in place to ‘slow the spread’ so that hospitals would not be overwhelmed with patients. Now, public health officials use them for a myriad of different purposes: to minimize ‘long COVID’ or to prevent cases entirely.
 
Covid vaccine passports scrapped for winter by Boris Johnson

Boris Johnson will announce this week that he is scrapping plans that would have required vaccine passports for entry to nightclubs, cinemas and sports grounds.

On Tuesday, the prime minister will announce plans to try to keep Covid under control over the winter. He will say that he has abandoned the proposed compulsory certification scheme, which would have forced venues to check people’s vaccine status.
 
Delta is Dying

An earlier study at the Cleveland Clinic of more than 52,000 health-care workers from December 16, 2020 to May 15, 2021 (just before Delta became dominant in the U.S.) found that both natural immunity and vaccine immunity provide good protection against infections. Not one of the 1,359 previously infected subjects who remained unvaccinated was reinfected. Their risk of infection was no higher than for vaccinated people, whether they were previously infected or uninfected.

Moreover, natural immunity thus far appears to be at least as long-lasting as vaccine immunity. Even before vaccines were widely available, studies indicated that four types of immune memory persist for more than six months after infection. The Cleveland Clinic results suggested that natural immunity provides protection against reinfection for ten or more months, leading the authors to conclude that previously infected Covid-19 patients are “unlikely to benefit” from vaccination. Another study found that convalescent individuals maintained immunologic protection for 12 months without vaccination, though protection could be enhanced by vaccination.

Covid-19 treatments have improved as well. Several versions of monoclonal antibodies have been authorized and are now readily available. These medicines are highly effective at keeping early Covid-19 from progressing, thus decreasing the risk of hospitalization or death by 70 percent to 85 percent, particularly for people at high risk of developing severe disease. Steroids and new, more effective ICU protocols have also led to lower Covid-19 mortality.
 
dad4 said:
No. I freely admit that we could be over this in a couple months if we used crop dusters to spray live Delta virus over the whole population.

Then just wait a few days. Anyone still alive must be immune!

It's just a bad idea, that's all.
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A Subtle Catastrophe

The Biden plan rests on mutually exclusive premises. First, there is the implicit assertion that the vaccines work. Indeed, they work so well that we should force 80 million people to get vaccinated, whether they want to or not. This, of course, flies in the face of the other presupposition: that we need to vaccinate damn near everyone because people are simply not safe otherwise.

Aren’t those who voluntarily took a vaccine already protected? If not, the vaccines are not all that effective, and mandating them will not make them any more so. If that’s not the objective, are we really protecting the anti-vaxxers from themselves? Since when is that an appropriate use of government power? Either way, forcing people to submit to a vaccine they don’t want as a condition of their continued employment doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.
 
Quiz for the day: Multiple choice too for those WHO need to take a stab in the dark. WHO said, "If you don't get vaccinated, your going to die" and that hospitals should become "scary" and look to "inflate" the Divoc A.I. numbers to sound like death is right around the corner.

A. Espola/EOTL
B. Golden Gate/EOTL
C. Husker/EOTL
D. Dr. Rudyk/McDonald Marketing Group and the Rest
 
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"Unfortunately, as a country, we have experience in dealing with exemptions, but we've got to be vigilant there and make sure that people are using them, you know, in the spirit that they're intended and not abusing them or asking for exemptions when they don't apply," Murthy told CNN’s "State of the Union." "That's an area that we continue to monitor in the days and weeks ahead."

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MacDre said:
Dude doesn’t seem to like folks from Norcal. I’d recommend that you stop being a stereotypical Norcal Hippie and moving to the OC and hanging with the homie Crush if you want to get unblocked.

Will that work @met61?
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You could be right @MacDre. Maybe, someday, @met61, @crush and myself can be buds someday. One can dream.

Until then, I will go back to burning incense while listening to The Dead in my hot tub. You know, doing those stereotypical NorCal things.
 
MacDre said:
Dude doesn’t seem to like folks from Norcal. I’d recommend that you stop being a stereotypical Norcal Hippie and moving to the OC and hanging with the homie Crush if you want to get unblocked.

Will that work @met61?
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Dre and NoCalDad, free surf lessons for you and your goats if you come to the Great OC. Free!!! I love all you guys from NoCal. OC is now the new melting pot of all things that are cool and hip. Catch me why I'm still in South OC :)
 
This is not a joke. The Chinese national hockey team just arrived in Sweden. Seriously afraid of coming to Covid Land. Curious to know how they will dress for match in the graveyard of ambition when it comes to handling the pandemic.

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