Was the vent treatment really based on modeling or historical medical treatment for severe respiratory issues? The initial fear that was greatly exaggerated was the fear that we wouldn't have enough vents (see Cuomo). I certainly heard some horror stories from NY hospitals unnecessarily putting people on vents. I hope that wasn't political.
Vaccine
- Thread starter Multi Sport
- Start date
You missed the point. If the models were good enough to predict the waves in particular cities before they happened, you could have employed a targeted approach city by city instead of putting the entire country (including places which didn't have waves) in lockdown. Because once you did it, you spent your bullet and you couldn't get there again (particularly after BLM). It's also based on the assumption (which even the Chinese stubbornly are being forced to recognize) that you can't lock down in perpetuity.
The Australia/NZ/China/Vietnam experience v. the rest of the world is pretty illustrative. The only thing that really worked by way of lockdowns were nearly complete and months long lockdowns like they did there. Not the half lockdowns that the US did (weed stores, fast food, and construction open where employees were passing it back and forth to each other), and not the intense short burst lockdowns Europe did (it just pushed it back a few weeks). So the debate in retrospect is really very simple: Were Australia/NZ/China/Vietnam right given the cost or not.
They've been trying to do exactly that. We have sewage data that highlights which places are flaring up. They had it down to treatment plant by treatment plant. It is easy enough to use that to decide what rules are on/off.
Trouble is, you can't turn rules on and off like a light switch. People accuse you of flip flopping and think that every change proves that there is no reason for any of it. You saw exactly that sentiment here.
In the end, one side effect of all the complaints is that policy got sticky. The fight over whether to have rules trumped all other discussions- including the discussions about how to make the rules smarter.
That wasn't the problem. Be honest about it. The problem was they burned their credibility. First it was the mask thing, no mask. Then it was the lockdowns for Iowa. Then it was the outdoor stuff. Then while the outdoor stuff was still going on you had the BLM (which ended any hope of a reasonable discussion once and for all because then people just saw it was politics). You saw the same thing going forward after that with Fauci fudging his immune thresholds, the cloth masks, the vaccine mandates and handing over school policies to the teachers union. They f up and every one of those f ups made getting to a sensible policy impossible. A more reasonable approach would have been to have an honest discussion with the public about the tradeoffs, treat them like grownups, and then left the politics out of it.
You see it in the LA County attempts to reinstall the mask mandate. This time around, compliance won't be universal. You'll have some places where it's hard (mostly affecting those without power like kids, or in doctor's offices/hospitals/govt buildings), some places of reluctant compliance with a whole bunch of incidents (mostly big corporations) and everywhere else compliance will be spotty. The stupidity behind it is it's a cloth mask mandate, which we already know given the current infection rates, do nothing particularly for people working indoors with one another for long periods of time, and for which things like indoor dining will be exempting (making for meaningless things like indoor restaurants). There's no point to it at this point, and it's yet another thing they'll torch their credibility with.
Step right up and get your Jim Jones Kool Aid while supplies last.
www.foxbusiness.com
FDA authorizes Novavax COVID-19 vaccine for emergency use
Novavax's COVID-19 vaccine was granted emergency use authorization by the FDA on Wednesday, setting it up to be a fourth vaccine option for Americans.
www.foxbusiness.com
Hüsker Dü
DA
Shawn Styles?
kickingandscreaming
PREMIER
Here's a great example of how talking points "work" for those incapable of critical thinking.
First, we have @watfly responding to a study @EvilGoalie 21 posted. Here is where @watfly used compelling first - in reference to long-term impacts on children.
@EvilGoalie 21 replies with some explanation of how he/she/they arrived at their interpretations and ends civilly with the following
and
@watfly responds to @EvilGoalie 21.
Anyone sincerely interested in what was going on would find it easy to see the use of compelling here was in the same context as it was above in bold. However, someone only interested in getting their talking points out might respond with as much thought as a dog when it sees a squirrel as we see below.
I point out E lost the thread
Husker comes to his defense, stating that I wasn't following the thread. No surprise from the Borg Collective of Talking Point trolls.
Pages of discussion follow based on someone spouting talking points that had nothing to do with the original point of contention. Even @EvilGoalie 21, one of the two involved in the initial discussion, appears to have lost the thread now. Interestingly, this is presented as a possible "defense" of E that, if true, actually indicates that E lost the thread. Strange.
Morals of the story: When an argument you support isn't going well, change it to a talking point you feel can't be refuted. If a point you made was meaningless in context, create a new scenario where the point is meaningful - extra points if you can get "someone else" to do it for you.
First, we have @watfly responding to a study @EvilGoalie 21 posted. Here is where @watfly used compelling first - in reference to long-term impacts on children.
@EvilGoalie 21 replies with some explanation of how he/she/they arrived at their interpretations and ends civilly with the following
and
@watfly responds to @EvilGoalie 21.
Anyone sincerely interested in what was going on would find it easy to see the use of compelling here was in the same context as it was above in bold. However, someone only interested in getting their talking points out might respond with as much thought as a dog when it sees a squirrel as we see below.
I point out E lost the thread
Husker comes to his defense, stating that I wasn't following the thread. No surprise from the Borg Collective of Talking Point trolls.
Pages of discussion follow based on someone spouting talking points that had nothing to do with the original point of contention. Even @EvilGoalie 21, one of the two involved in the initial discussion, appears to have lost the thread now. Interestingly, this is presented as a possible "defense" of E that, if true, actually indicates that E lost the thread. Strange.
Morals of the story: When an argument you support isn't going well, change it to a talking point you feel can't be refuted. If a point you made was meaningless in context, create a new scenario where the point is meaningful - extra points if you can get "someone else" to do it for you.
Happened again
SILVER ELITE
plenty of nuance in regards to invasive/mechanical venting. I will not dive into blood oxygen levels and the old dogma associated with it and vent needs. Italy was the testing ground. It became evident rather early that mech venting wasn't the best treatment and in fact simpler and more widely available devices was the better practice. Based on their population, Italian docs/nurse/specialists had to do plenty of doctoring to take care of patients. hats off to them - and many learned from their experience. They did a great job of early intervention, treating immediate symptoms, and managing a very stretched care system. They saved many lives (and many were lost, especially early, amongst the older population). There really wasn't much they could have done differently given what they knew, did'nt know.
But....much sexier and sensational here in the good ol us of a to talk abut vent shortages and what we could do about it...how cool was it to have the government trot out the DPA and save us from ourselves. So yes, plenty of political influence in getting vents manufactured when we knew that the trend in treatment was to not use mech vent machines. Remember warrior king cuomo? he was the ultimate vent advocate - without them NYC would have suffocated.
Your response proves my point.
When the CDC tried to fix their mask rule, what did people do? They immediately jumped on it as proof that the rules are all bad, and used the policy correction as an excuse to attack the agency's credibility.
Like you did above.
Having done that, what right do you have to ask for a flexible policy? You by your own words helped create the exact conditions which cause public agencies to become inflexible. No use complaining about it after you helped cause it.
No, it was because the CDC purposefully lied to people in order to preserve the PPE for health care workers. If you lie, you destroy your credibility and trust. Do it enough, and your credibility goes in the shitter, like public health's currently is. They didn't "fix" anything (talk about destroying cred). You think if there's another pandemic anyone will believe them? There's a reason the boy who cried wolf is a timeless story.
p.s. Birx has now all but admitted she lied to both the public and Trump about 15 days to slow the spread, knowing from the get go it would be longer.
It is/was a two fold issue. 1) America was founded on the principles of independence, freedom and limited government and culturally many Americans are still firm believers in those principles, 2) Many of the restrictions lacked credibility and even if they were credible they were often selectively enforced depending on how important or elite you were.
No? These statements are not in opposition.
The CDC lied in an effort to protect front line health care workers. The right wing media used this to undermine public health efforts in general. As a result, our public health officials learned to think long and hard about any future policy corrections.
This is one unified story, not two in opposition. Your part in it isn't honorable, either.
Hüsker Dü
DA
Sun Up San Diego!
Man, you can't even admit that lying shouldn't be part of public policy and then throw around terms about "right wing media". Talk about blaming the victim there. Don't lie and you don't have the problem. And it wasn't just one lie...it was repeated lies...like Birx has admitted about the 15 days, or BLM, or the school reopenings, or Fauci and his thresholds.
So if my part isn't honorable, your part in all this, and the resulting harm to children that resulting from your fear and selfishness, is downright disgusting.
For the enforcement he'll just blame the politicians instead of his virtuous saint-like technocratic elite. If only the scientists had been put in charge....
Heinlein was prescient.
Victim? The only thing that lie cost you was a chance to buy up the PPE our doctors needed.
So, yeah. You got lied to. So what? Unless you are the kind of person to buy up PPE during a health emergency, it did not impact your life one bit.
I'm not a fan of the lie, but your reaction to it is far out of proportion to any harm you suffered.
And then Trump shared about therapeutics and was hammered for telling everyone to inject bleach and horse poop in their arms. No one lies like this unless their being blackmailed or their in on the heist or just cold blooded killers.
No, they lied so you and your Bots here would preach lies to get people to inject poison in their immune system and their kids immune system. It's called fraud and people are dying and those who lied will pay the ultimate price.
I know what your about and it's not good dad. Seriously, you make feel sick to my stomach lair!!!