Vaccine

Desert Hound said:
Not sure who you think I was disagreeing with.

That said most people just go with the ads, pronouncements that these vehicles are zero emission.

They don't know where the power comes from.

Your math for your model failed to take into consideration the emissions required to produce the various parts. If you watched that video and or read other analysis about total actual emissions you will find that currently they are not clean as advertised.
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Nope. I included it. A 25k car has considerably more production emissions than a 15k car. Roughly 5/3 as much.

The coal burner with a long tailpipe still emits less CO2. Eventually, the 20 pounds of CO2 per gallon just dominates.

To get the opposite result, you have to use an unreasonably short estimate for the lifespan of the car.

Back when I ran the numbers, WSJ published a comparison that assumed 50,000 miles. ICE car lifespan and ev battery life are both around 200,000 miles. So the WSJ piece was underestimating operating emissions by a factor of four.

I assume your video is playing that kind of game. And it's not worth 20 minutes of my time to find out exactly how they play it.
 
watfly said:
The argument that is made in the Ted Talk I posted is that the "carbon" to build the electric car is significantly higher than a gas vehicle and electric cars won't last long enough to offset that difference (if I'm recalling correctly). Whether you believe it or not its a fascinating watch.
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Sounds like they used the same cheat as the old WSJ piece: assume the electric dies before the break even point.
 
dad4 said:
Sounds like they used the same cheat as the old WSJ piece: assume the electric dies before the break even point.
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Your criticizing something you refuse to watch...weak. He actually makes a case for hybrids being the most environmental friendly. His overall conclusion is that at this point is that we need a mix of gas, electric and hybrid cars. That's why he is wearing a shirt that says "The future is eclectic".
 
watfly said:
Your criticizing something you refuse to watch...weak. He actually makes a case for hybrids being the most environmental friendly. His overall conclusion is that at this point is that we need a mix of gas, electric and hybrid cars. That's why he is wearing a shirt that says "The future is eclectic".
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I like hybrids for a distance car. You get to use electricity for the grocery store runs, but still have long range for the ski trip.

But, if you don't have a place to charge them, I don't see how you make up for the added production cost. There is no need for a 15kwh battery if you never use it for more than regenerative braking.
 
dad4 said:
I like hybrids for a distance car. You get to use electricity for the grocery store runs, but still have long range for the ski trip.

But, if you don't have a place to charge them, I don't see how you make up for the added production cost. There is no need for a 15kwh battery if you never use it for more than regenerative braking.
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Unless I'm missing your point, you don't charge hybrids.
 
watfly said:
If you believe the guy from the Ted Talk that would defeat the advantage of a hybrid car.
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"The guy from the TED talk" admitted early in his presentation that he was just trolling for attention.

I assume that is why TED put the disclaimer on the youtube version.
 
dad4 said:
Nope. I included it. A 25k car has considerably more production emissions than a 15k car. Roughly 5/3 as much.

The coal burner with a long tailpipe still emits less CO2. Eventually, the 20 pounds of CO2 per gallon just dominates.

To get the opposite result, you have to use an unreasonably short estimate for the lifespan of the car.

Back when I ran the numbers, WSJ published a comparison that assumed 50,000 miles. ICE car lifespan and ev battery life are both around 200,000 miles. So the WSJ piece was underestimating operating emissions by a factor of four.

I assume your video is playing that kind of game. And it's not worth 20 minutes of my time to find out exactly how they play it.
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There is only one coal-burning power plant left in California. It's out in the desert at Trona where coal is burned in a chemical process to refine the salts from Trona Lake and the excess heat is used to cogenerate electricity for the plant and surrounding area.
 
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dad4 said:
You need a better source than a video which has been disowned by its own publisher.
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I see we are back to trust the experts who are credentialed and agree with me on a particular topics and everyone else is garbage rather than critique particular statements made in the talk. Why, then, am I not surprised?

Part of the issue is what you buy. Leasing a new Telsa with all the bells and whistles every 2 years is less environmentally friendly than running the old volvo beater that's fully paid off into the ground.


www.theatlantic.com

When Does the Clean-Energy Infinity Loop Start?

Digging up minerals for rechargeable batteries has a high initial cost, but eventually those minerals can be recycled indefinitely.
www.theatlantic.com www.theatlantic.com
 
dad4 said:
You need a better source than a video which has been disowned by its own publisher.
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What part of "if you believe this guy" don't you and Espola understand? It's one of thousands opinions regarding green energy. If Tedx was that concerned about it they would have removed it from their Youtube channel. They simply labeled it viewer beware because it challenges popular opinion, which makes the scientific community uncomfortable when someone deviates from the defined narrative.

It's lazy reasoning how you and Espola have a tendency to challenge the source but not the substance.
 
Dr. Mary Bowden (@mdbreathe) is a licensed Texas physician who kept nearly 4,000 patients out of the hospital with a successful COVID treatment rate of 99.97%.

She is currently suing the FDA for blocking her ability to treat her patients and for politicizing the practice of medicine.

A few days ago, Twitter banned her account with 120K followers because she is standing up to the FDA and fighting for medical freedom.

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watfly said:
What part of "if you believe this guy" don't you and Espola understand? It's one of thousands opinions regarding green energy. If Tedx was that concerned about it they would have removed it from their Youtube channel. They simply labeled it viewer beware because it challenges popular opinion, which makes the scientific community uncomfortable when someone deviates from the defined narrative.

It's lazy reasoning how you and Espola have a tendency to challenge the source but not the substance.
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You see that as an exclusive on dad and E’s part? You must have the trump brigade on ignore.
 
watfly said:
What part of "if you believe this guy" don't you and Espola understand? It's one of thousands opinions regarding green energy. If Tedx was that concerned about it they would have removed it from their Youtube channel. They simply labeled it viewer beware because it challenges popular opinion, which makes the scientific community uncomfortable when someone deviates from the defined narrative.

It's lazy reasoning how you and Espola have a tendency to challenge the source but not the substance.
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If you have a real argument, find someone who thought it was worth writing down.

"Watch my rambling and repetitive video" is not the same as communication.
 
dad4 said:
If you have a real argument, find someone who thought it was worth writing down.

"Watch my rambling and repetitive video" is not the same as communication.
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I'm a visual learner! I don't have the attention span to sit down and read a book.

Have you watched the video? How would you know its rambling and repetitive? You act like the video is some great science denier diatribe. His basic premise is that we have to look at the bigger picture when we're talking about a carbon footprint and that its incorrect to call electric cars "zero emissions". Sorry it send you into tailspin that anyone would question the woke status quo. More evidence that academics don't toleration deviation from the so-called consensus.
 
watfly said:
I'm a visual learner! I don't have the attention span to sit down and read a book.

Have you watched the video? How would you know its rambling and repetitive? You act like the video is some great science denier diatribe. His basic premise is that we have to look at the bigger picture when we're talking about a carbon footprint and that its incorrect to call electric cars "zero emissions". Sorry it send you into tailspin that anyone would question the woke status quo. More evidence that academics don't toleration deviation from the so-called consensus.
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Does it really take a Ted talk to explain the fact that industrial processes consume energy and produce CO2 emissions?

If that's the only take away, I think I'm justified in skipping it.
 
Fauci vents about Americans' opposition to forced masking: 'It's almost inexplicable'
Fauci complained: 'What world are we living in?'
 
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