Vaccine

dad4 said:
If you waste your time with insults instead of actually making a point, that’s your problem, not mine.

So, ignoring the irrelevant half of your post,

5- ”don’t work as advertised” is a phrase which sounds like it means more than it does.

Oh, I understand it.

Some places will save a few lives with vaccine requirements or mask mandates. This will happen mostly in cities with 80+% of adults already vaccinated.

Other places will do nothing. This will happen mostly in places with 80+% of ICU beds in use. The majority of the remaining covid deaths will happen in these areas.

That much is clear.
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Again the guy who throws around the subtle insults, argues from a position of contempt and then complains about stuff he doesn’t want to hear. It’s more subtle than what the trolls do but at it’s heart it’s the same.

“not as advertised” is a perfect description of the vaccines particularly against the omicron. Not our fault the science failed. At least it helps still with severe disease.
 
Grace T. said:
Again the guy who throws around the subtle insults, argues from a position of contempt and then complains about stuff he doesn’t want to hear. It’s more subtle than what the trolls do but at it’s heart it’s the same.

“not as advertised” is a perfect description of the vaccines particularly against the omicron. Not our fault the science failed. At least it helps still with severe disease.
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Ps it’s not clear at all your prediction of lives saved/icus will take place. The ifr for the omicron for the vaxxed so far is coming in around that of a cold. For the unvaxxed the flu. I didn’t fully understand a paper I was reading this am and it’s in German so I didn’t post but as best as I understand it the new mutation is missing some components that create the toxicity—-> the c storms. It’s still early though so it’s still possible.
 
Grace T. said:
Again the guy who throws around the subtle insults, argues from a position of contempt and then complains about stuff he doesn’t want to hear. It’s more subtle than what the trolls do but at it’s heart it’s the same.

“not as advertised” is a perfect description of the vaccines particularly against the omicron. Not our fault the science failed. At least it helps still with severe disease.
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The science didn't fail. We are significantly better off with the vaccine than before.
 
Grace T. said:
Ps it’s not clear at all your prediction of lives saved/icus will take place. The ifr for the omicron for the vaxxed so far is coming in around that of a cold. For the unvaxxed the flu. I didn’t fully understand a paper I was reading this am and it’s in German so I didn’t post but as best as I understand it the new mutation is missing some components that create the toxicity—-> the c storms. It’s still early though so it’s still possible.
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If the omicron variant results in immunity to all variants to those who recover, it might be seen as an analog to the role of cowpox in the fight against smallpox.
 
espola said:
The science didn't fail. We are significantly better off with the vaccine than before.
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Agree but again it wasn’t what was hoped for.
espola said:
If the omicron variant results in immunity to all variants to those who recover, it might be seen as an analog to the role of cowpox in the fight against smallpox.
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Good point! Wow you are all over the place: sometimes insightful sometimes trollish.
 
Grace T. said:
Agree but again it wasn’t what was hoped for.

Good point! Wow you are all over the place: sometimes insightful sometimes trollish.
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I don't rush.

As for "hoped for", show me a rational analysis written at the time that thought this vaccine was the end-all. Covid arose by mutation from previously known wild circulating viruses. Why would anyone think that was going to stop?

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WAPO June 2021


What can I do after I get vaccinated?
Can I return to my old activities?
The CDC says that if you are fully vaccinated, you can resume all your usual activities without masks or physical distancing in most cases, even when you are indoors or in large groups. However, you still need to follow guidance at your workplace and any rules in effect at any businesses you visit, as well as state and local restrictions, if those are more stringent.
If you travel, you are still required to wear a mask on planes, buses, trains and other forms of public transportation.
You are considered fully vaccinated two weeks after you receive the one-dose Johnson & Johnson shot, or two weeks after the second dose of either the Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna vaccine.
Even after that point, you should still watch out for symptoms of covid-19, especially if you’ve been around someone who is sick. If you have symptoms, you should get tested and stay home and away from others.
If you have a compromised immune system, or are taking medications such as steroids that weaken the immune system, you should talk to your health-care provider to discuss your activities. You may need to keep taking precautions to prevent covid-19.
You do not need to quarantine or be tested if you are exposed to the virus as long as you do not develop symptoms. Fully vaccinated employees of high-density workplaces, such as meatpacking plants, who do not have symptoms also do not need to quarantine after an exposure. But a test is recommended to be certain.
Fully vaccinated international travelers coming to the United States are still required to get tested within three days of their arrival or show documentation that they’ve recovered from covid-19 in the past three months. They should still get tested three to five days after their trip.
The CDC updated its previously more cautious guidance on May 13, citing falling infection rates in the United States and real-world evidence of the effectiveness of the coronavirus vaccines even against more contagious variantscirculating in the country. Officials also noted the rarity of breakthrough infections in those who are fully vaccinated and the lesser severity of the relatively few infections that have occurred.
 
espola said:
I don't rush.

As for "hoped for", show me a rational analysis written at the time that thought this vaccine was the end-all. Covid arose by mutation from previously known wild circulating viruses. Why would anyone think that was going to stop?

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Wow and here I thought you were blind die hard do it die right or wrong all in for herd immunity Fauci and July 4 Joe Biden. But you are capable if critiquing them. Wow. Color me shocked man. I may have had you wrong. Even if you revert to your trollish ways at least I’m impressed by the moments of lucidity.
 
Grace T. said:
Wow and here I thought you were blind die hard do it die right or wrong all in for herd immunity Fauci and July 4 Joe Biden. But you are capable if critiquing them. Wow. Color me shocked man. I may have had you wrong. Even if you revert to your trollish ways at least I’m impressed by the moments of lucidity.
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I have no idea what that means.
 
kickingandscreaming said:
What is also becoming clear is the damage we are doing to child development and the mental health of everyone with the mandates. Your view is consistently myopic.
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Unvaccinated, unmasked adults go to high risk places like bars and restaurants. In the process, they cause more covid cases, hospitalizations, and deaths.

But, if I criticize them for it, somehow that damages child development?

You're using kids as an excuse for the bad behavior of adults.
 
kickingandscreaming said:
Is it odd that only vaccinated individuals are considered in the % necessary for herd immunity and nothing is said about the population of individuals who are not vaccinated but survived COVID?
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The article includes this --

"In Manaus, Brazil, a large outbreak early in the pandemic caused scientists to conclude that nearly 70 percent of the population had been exposed and, after a lot of illness and death, the population had reached herd immunity."

Herd immunity in a population before there was a vaccine.
 
dad4 said:
Unvaccinated, unmasked adults go to high risk places like bars and restaurants. In the process, they cause more covid cases, hospitalizations, and deaths.

But, if I criticize them for it, somehow that damages child development?

You're using kids as an excuse for the bad behavior of adults.
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If I follow your logic, then you are using your fear as an excuse to support mandates that damage children.

No, I am telling you mandates have effects beyond COVID and you don't recognize them. Criticize away - just don't mandate behavior - especially among children who are not at risk but are obviously bearing the brunt of the mandates.
 
espola said:
The article includes this --

"In Manaus, Brazil, a large outbreak early in the pandemic caused scientists to conclude that nearly 70 percent of the population had been exposed and, after a lot of illness and death, the population had reached herd immunity."

Herd immunity in a population before there was a vaccine.
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Can you show me the place in the article where it describes the % vaccination AND previous exposure to reach herd immunity? It's misleading to give the herd immunity percent with just the vaccination rate.

Those places with lower vaccination rates certainly appear to have higher case rates - and I'd guess considerably higher than cases recorded as many in those areas will see no reason to get tested unless they need to go to the doctor. What is the incentive to get tested if you have mild symptoms? I'd bet many children already had COVID and were never tested as their symptoms were mild - especially in the vaccine-resistant areas. Again, what is the incentive to test?

I hope they are correct but I'm not holding my breath.
 
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