Vaccine

[EvilGoalie 21]

Fresh hellscape? Always the extremes from you.

We already have evidence from the Norway Christmas party that Omicron does not send vaccinated people to the hospital. Last I checked, it was 90 infected, zero to hospital. This is ought to be enough to rule out a “vaccine does nothing” argument, especially when you combine it with the lab results.

Now you have the normal scientific back and forth over quantifying the added benefit.

No hellscape at all. They figured out that the Pfizer shot helps against omicron, and are busy establishing the error bars on that statement. Most of us consider this a good thing.

Time to re-enter my morning “hellscape“ of tunes and a fresh cup of coffee.

Since I was looking at the neutralization efficacy data last night and then read the Phizer statement this AM its probably not even a back and forth sort of thing, just how you describe the same result. Everybody is doing the same assay, sera dilutions to monitor neutralization activity against omicron infection of cells in a petri dish. The data shows the that the main anti-S Abs that are induced to high circulating levels by either prior infection or vaxx do not neutralize against as well against omicron. How big is the drop in efficacy? The scale of the drop varies between 7-40x but the N is low and the scatter is high. Its still pretty preliminary stuff. The most clear result is that Omicron seems to evade the current monoclonal Ab treatments very effectively.

On the other hand, the synergy of multiple immune priming to facilitate longer maintenance of elevated Ab titers seems to be holding up. So infect + reinfect, infect + vaxx, vaxx + booster, all elevate Ab titers, even if the Abs that are elevated don't work as well against the S of omicron.

So it the same thing just how its framed. You could say "oh crap, the main Abs induced against alpha/delta don't bind as tightly". Or you could say "Hey if you keep the level of those same Abs high enough they still work OK".

 

[espola]

Hellscape is a description of the social media war going on right. Now. The issue is not severity of disease. The issue is neutralization. On the one hand you have Pfizer (which has a dubious motive)…on the other groups of Israeli, Dutch and now Germans. The debate thus surrounds whether boosters are necessary (or perhaps people should wait if they’ll be forced to take the omicron booster which Pfizer despite our waiting still for the delta booster has said will be available in 100 days). The debate which is shaping up is whether a booster will really do anything (and thus sell more Pfizer) since a 2 shot dose is sufficient to eliminate the novelty risk in what is apparently a comparatively mild omicron. The debate is already getting heated in those circles because there’s a lot of money at stake (potentially 4 shots worth of it). Reading comprehension. That’s a critique which I’ve been assured by espola is not an ad because I am attacking the message and not your character (eg, another babbler).

You didn't challenge his reading comprehension once. You're getting better.

 

[dad4]

Hellscape is a description of the social media war going on right. Now. The issue is not severity of disease. The issue is neutralization. On the one hand you have Pfizer (which has a dubious motive)…on the other groups of Israeli, Dutch and now Germans. The debate thus surrounds whether boosters are necessary (or perhaps people should wait if they’ll be forced to take the omicron booster which Pfizer despite our waiting still for the delta booster has said will be available in 100 days). The debate which is shaping up is whether a booster will really do anything (and thus sell more Pfizer) since a 2 shot dose is sufficient to eliminate the novelty risk in what is apparently a comparatively mild omicron. The debate is already getting heated in those circles because there’s a lot of money at stake (potentially 4 shots worth of it). Reading comprehension. That’s a critique which I’ve been assured by espola is not an ad because I am attacking the message and not your character (eg, another babbler).

I fail to see how anything on social media qualifies as a “hellscape”.

Hellscape ought to refer to real world catastrophes. The eastern front in world war two was a hellscape, for example. Egghead wannabes arguing on twitter? That’s a tempest in a teapot, not a hellscape.

 

[what-happened]

No, it started with people turning hard decisions for which there was no perfect, or even known, answer into a political hit that all of you anti-vax and mask douchebags have used time and again as your only excuse to intentionally kill people.

How am i anti vax and anti mask? Or is that the royal you that you are referring to? What hard decisions? Like sending vulnerable people back into facilities that house vulnerable people? It's pandemic 101. Oh that's right, there were other facilities available that could have housed them. They were being provided by the orangy federal government. Politics trumped public health. Has nothing to do with anti vax, anti mask and everything to do with political idiots. Public health has become divisivie due to politics. You unfortnately are blinded by partisan headlights. Add to that your minimal understanding of publich health and medicine. Perfect setting for your U9 tantrums.

 

[dad4]

You didn't challenge his reading comprehension once. You're getting better.

It’s in the second to last sentence.

Reading grace’s posts is such a hellscape.

 

[Hüsker Dü]

You didn't challenge his reading comprehension once. You're getting better.

Just attempting to move the football a bit, remember, laces out.

 

[espola]

It’s in the second to last sentence.

Reading grace’s posts is such a hellscape.

I stand corrected. My weak excuses are that I hadn't had my morning coffee yet and I was rushing to catch up on my wake-up reading because I had to pee.

I worked on communication radios and intercoms in my time in the Navy. I learned that sometimes the fault that caused a failure to comprehend a message was with the receiver, and sometimes with the sender.

 

[thirteenknots]

You're babbling.

Babble I will, about the TRUTH.

Hey Adam Espola Schiff, when you're confronted with the TRUTH
you sidestep and proceed with more Lies.
Lucky for you that the Juicy Smollet Bathhouse Trial isn't on National
display via the Criminal News Network as the public would get to
witness real time how individuals such as YOU operate.
Tell the Forum some lies about your sordid past Adam Espola Schiff.
Both of You have the same issues with a Media suppressed lurid history.

 

[espola]

Babble I will, about the TRUTH.

Hey Adam Espola Schiff, when you're confronted with the TRUTH
you sidestep and proceed with more Lies.
Lucky for you that the Juicy Smollet Bathhouse Trial isn't on National
display via the Criminal News Network as the public would get to
witness real time how individuals such as YOU operate.
Tell the Forum some lies about your sordid past Adam Espola Schiff.
Both of You have the same issues with a Media suppressed lurid history.

Admitting you have a problem is the first step to recovery, but it appears you have a long way to go.

Perhaps you can answer a question for me -- how many sockpuppet accounts does 4nos have?

 

[EvilGoalie 21]

I fail to see how anything on social media qualifies as a “hellscape”.

Hellscape ought to refer to real world catastrophes. The eastern front in world war two was a hellscape, for example. Egghead wannabes arguing on twitter? That’s a tempest in a teapot, not a hellscape.

From MPOV one of the more interesting exchanges in our little klatch. One thing is that just during the course of this pandemic a newer generation of researchers is using forums little twitter to post first views of near real time data concerning covid. The main thing is that its even a faster way to disseminate data than preprint servers. But the other thing is that they are doing so to counter active misrepresentation of their data in the infodemic. They are increasingly saying hey if its a fight we got to fight. Which I admire. But it feeds right into it as well. In what I looked at last night could I pull a post off, say, Florian Krammer's feed and set it up against a line in Phizer's press release and "two sets of experts, two sides, so believe whatever". Sure. It would be complete bullshit but easy to do. Of course I could just as easily set up metaphor against against metaphor and have a guy who looks like my ex-Hell's Angels biker uncle doing target practice with his 0.45 magnum long barrel. Empty milk jugs, one wrapped in diapers. Blows the first one water spraying everywhere. He says "that's a big wet covid sneeze." they he blows the wrapped one says "Mama says cover you mouth. Wear your fucking mask". That would be more fun actually but pushes buttons either way.

Virtual hellscape isn't real world hellscape yet, at least for us priveledged western countries. The citizens of someplace like Ukraine for example might have something to say about how actively manipulated online distortion campaigns can get real, real fast. But like I've said, consider two different maps posted on election night as the "real" thing. Simple extension of what is happening right now.

 

[Grace T.]

I fail to see how anything on social media qualifies as a “hellscape”.

Hellscape ought to refer to real world catastrophes. The eastern front in world war two was a hellscape, for example. Egghead wannabes arguing on twitter? That’s a tempest in a teapot, not a hellscape.

Hellscapes are in the eye of the beholder. Twitter most assuredly is a hellscape, at least as far as social media sites go. This subforum of the soccer forum comes pretty close to one too (minus EOTL its more of a purgatory). Time to brush up on some Milton.

It’s in the second to last sentence.

Reading grace’s posts is such a hellscape.

I like this. And you have the assurance from espola that since it's criticizing the post and not the speaker's character, it most assuredly is not an ad hominem.

 

[Grace T.]

From MPOV one of the more interesting exchanges in our little klatch. One thing is that just during the course of this pandemic a newer generation of researchers is using forums little twitter to post first views of near real time data concerning covid. The main thing is that its even a faster way to disseminate data than preprint servers. But the other thing is that they are doing so to counter active misrepresentation of their data in the infodemic. They are increasingly saying hey if its a fight we got to fight. Which I admire. But it feeds right into it as well. In what I looked at last night could I pull a post off, say, Florian Krammer's feed and set it up against a line in Phizer's press release and "two sets of experts, two sides, so believe whatever". Sure. It would be complete bullshit but easy to do. Of course I could just as easily set up metaphor against against metaphor and have a guy who looks like my ex-Hell's Angels biker uncle doing target practice with his 0.45 magnum long barrel. Empty milk jugs, one wrapped in diapers. Blows the first one water spraying everywhere. He says "that's a big wet covid sneeze." they he blows the wrapped one says "Mama says cover you mouth. Wear your fucking mask". That would be more fun actually but pushes buttons either way.

Virtual hellscape isn't real world hellscape yet, at least for us priveledged western countries. The citizens of someplace like Ukraine for example might have something to say about how actively manipulated online distortion campaigns can get real, real fast. But like I've said, consider two different maps posted on election night as the "real" thing. Simple extension of what is happening right now.

This is a very reasoned post. I like it a lot. The one thing, though, you are neglecting is there's a lot of money riding on the answer to the question. On the line are whether governments should keep pushing the 3rd booster, and an omicron booster as well (the sunk costs to which are rapidly going to begin to mount). 4 shots for every person are now on the table, and quite a big pot of money. For reference, again, see Squid Games, which I am convinced rather than a socialist anti-capitalist allegory, is really a big pharma one.

 

[GoldenGate]

How am i anti vax and anti mask? Or is that the royal you that you are referring to? What hard decisions? Like sending vulnerable people back into facilities that house vulnerable people? It's pandemic 101. Oh that's right, there were other facilities available that could have housed them. They were being provided by the orangy federal government. Politics trumped public health. Has nothing to do with anti vax, anti mask and everything to do with political idiots. Public health has become divisivie due to politics. You unfortnately are blinded by partisan headlights. Add to that your minimal understanding of publich health and medicine. Perfect setting for your U9 tantrums.

When the pandemic hit NY, there was little to no knowledge about how impacted hospitals would become or how life threatening Covid was to any specific categories of persons. Within a week, NYC went from 20 to 500 people dying of Covid daily, and 1000 the following week. There was no telling at the time how bad it was going to get and it wasn't clear whether sending nursing home patients who did not need to be in the hospital anymore back to nursing homes where they might still spread it, or leave them in potentially overwhelmed hospitals where they might also spread it. Was it the wrong decision in retrospect? Yes, of course it was. Did they overestimate the ability of nursing homes to prevent internal spread among their residents? Yes. Did they end up being overly concerned about the risk to children and other healthy groups? Also yes. Was this decision "politicizing healthcare". Of course not.

Honestly, it's pretty crazy that even a feeble-minded person like yourself would assert that others are politicizing healthcare in the very same sentence in which you're claiming that it all started in NY and NJ. No, it didn't start with NY and NJ. Cuomo sending nursing home residents was not "politicizing" healthcare. "Politicizing healthcare" started when you and your other anti-mask/vax friends subsequently used a decision that ended up being the wrong one as your excuse over the next two years to support "I can believe whatever I want because freedom" policies and ignore (and even mock) the guidance of virtually every single reputable medical and healthcare organization in the U.S. And all of this bs behavior has led to hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths. So, yes, AZ's shining example of complete and utter stupidity needs discussion far more than NY/NJ, since states like AZ have no fucking excuse to have so many dead bodies and keep making the same stupid decisions, unlike NY. You're just labeling any fact you don't like as "politics" and then ignoring it because that's what your weak mind has learned to do from Fox and Newsmax.

 

[Brav520]

When the pandemic hit NY, there was little to no knowledge about how impacted hospitals would become or how life threatening Covid was to any specific categories of persons. Within a week, NYC went from 20 to 500 people dying of Covid daily, and 1000 the following week. There was no telling at the time how bad it was going to get and it wasn't clear whether sending nursing home patients who did not need to be in the hospital anymore back to nursing homes where they might still spread it, or leave them in potentially overwhelmed hospitals where they might also spread it. Was it the wrong decision in retrospect? Yes, of course it was. Did they overestimate the ability of nursing homes to prevent internal spread among their residents? Yes. Did they end up being overly concerned about the risk to children and other healthy groups? Also yes. Was this decision "politicizing healthcare". Of course not.

Honestly, it's pretty crazy that even a feeble-minded person like yourself would assert that others are politicizing healthcare in the very same sentence in which you're claiming that it all started in NY and NJ. No, it didn't start with NY and NJ. Cuomo sending nursing home residents was not "politicizing" healthcare. "Politicizing healthcare" started when you and your other anti-mask/vax friends subsequently used a decision that ended up being the wrong one as your excuse over the next two years to support "I can believe whatever I want because freedom" policies and ignore (and even mock) the guidance of virtually every single reputable medical and healthcare organization in the U.S. And all of this bs behavior has led to hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths. So, yes, AZ's shining example of complete and utter stupidity needs discussion far more than NY/NJ, since states like AZ have no fucking excuse to have so many dead bodies and keep making the same stupid decisions, unlike NY. You're just labeling any fact you don't like as "politics" and then ignoring it because that's what your weak mind has learned to do from Fox and Newsmax.

Yes , we understand . When a Covid death happens in a blue state it’s because that said Governor was failed by the residents of that state . when it happens in a red state it’s because the Governor failed

simply put , Biden can’t fail, he can only be failed

 

[dad4]

When the pandemic hit NY, there was little to no knowledge about how impacted hospitals would become or how life threatening Covid was to any specific categories of persons. Within a week, NYC went from 20 to 500 people dying of Covid daily, and 1000 the following week. There was no telling at the time how bad it was going to get and it wasn't clear whether sending nursing home patients who did not need to be in the hospital anymore back to nursing homes where they might still spread it, or leave them in potentially overwhelmed hospitals where they might also spread it. Was it the wrong decision in retrospect? Yes, of course it was. Did they overestimate the ability of nursing homes to prevent internal spread among their residents? Yes. Did they end up being overly concerned about the risk to children and other healthy groups? Also yes. Was this decision "politicizing healthcare". Of course not.

Honestly, it's pretty crazy that even a feeble-minded person like yourself would assert that others are politicizing healthcare in the very same sentence in which you're claiming that it all started in NY and NJ. No, it didn't start with NY and NJ. Cuomo sending nursing home residents was not "politicizing" healthcare. "Politicizing healthcare" started when you and your other anti-mask/vax friends subsequently used a decision that ended up being the wrong one as your excuse over the next two years to support "I can believe whatever I want because freedom" policies and ignore (and even mock) the guidance of virtually every single reputable medical and healthcare organization in the U.S. And all of this bs behavior has led to hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths. So, yes, AZ's shining example of complete and utter stupidity needs discussion far more than NY/NJ, since states like AZ have no fucking excuse to have so many dead bodies and keep making the same stupid decisions, unlike NY. You're just labeling any fact you don't like as "politics" and then ignoring it because that's what your weak mind has learned to do from Fox and Newsmax.

You aren’t seriously defending the decision to return patients to nursing homes?

Yes, they were in crisis mode. But they had no reason to believe the policy would work. Your first guess is that returning patients to nursing homes would just create new patients, further overwhelming hospitals. Even when judged by the data available at the time, it was still a horrible decision.

 

[GoldenGate]

Yes , we understand . When a Covid death happens in a blue state it’s because that said Governor was failed by the residents of that state . when it happens in a red state it’s because the Governor failed

simply put , Biden can’t fail, he can only be failed

I see how you get that from a post that specifically states that NY made the wrong decision at the inception of the pandemic. What is AZ's excuse for killing so many people? I mean, it's known about horse paste for months.

 

[EvilGoalie 21]

This is a very reasoned post. I like it a lot. The one thing, though, you are neglecting is there's a lot of money riding on the answer to the question. On the line are whether governments should keep pushing the 3rd booster, and an omicron booster as well (the sunk costs to which are rapidly going to begin to mount). 4 shots for every person are now on the table, and quite a big pot of money. For reference, again, see Squid Games, which I am convinced rather than a socialist anti-capitalist allegory, is really a big pharma one.

I could just as easily say that you choose to accentuate the money, power, dark side of human nature it's all a conspiracy so a pick a side stuff. But it's all good. Helpful in a way actually. YMMV

 

[Brav520]

I see how you get that from a post that specifically states that NY made the wrong decision at the inception of the pandemic. What is AZ's excuse for killing so many people? I mean, it's known about horse paste for months.

Have you seen the Biden Covid Death Tracker?

 

[GoldenGate]

You aren’t seriously defending the decision to return patients to nursing homes?

Yes, they were in crisis mode. But they had no reason to believe the policy would work. Your first guess is that returning patients to nursing homes would just create new patients, further overwhelming hospitals. Even when judged by the data available at the time, it was still a horrible decision.

I was pretty clear that it was the wrong decision. But it wasn't a decision "politicizing healthcare". The only "politicizing healthcare" here is being done by those who keep pointing to that poor decision as an excuse to completely ignore all of the things that mitigate spread and reduce deaths.

 

[Brav520]

He lied , tried to cover it up, wrote a book about his success , and won an Emmy

people were talking that he should be the dem nominee for president , given how well he did on Covid

but yeah , it hasn’t been polticized