I was thinking something similar, "Nothing to see here. Time to move on."Time to move on.
This is a question of politics — political culture, the authority of normal life versus the respected authorities in charge of public health. Public-health authorities don’t know how to stop giving you extra-restrictive advice. And they can’t learn how to stop giving it if we don’t learn how to stop asking for it. Or until we start ignoring what they say, and start punishing politicians who translate their guidance into nuisances.
We can’t eat enough medium-well steaks to get the CDC to stop recommending that we not eat medium-rare, let alone steak tartare. If you ask epidemiologists whether human conversation is safe, their minds call up computer animations of people projectile-vomiting red and blue blocks of “droplets” on each other. If you asked public-health authorities for permission to be born and live a life, there’s no way they could just, you know, approve of that in an unqualified way. You just have to remember that you’ll never be in less danger to yourself or others until dead.
They’re waiting for us — the people. The people began locking down and shutting in and buying masks last February, when public-health officials were telling you that masks were racist and that you should attend Chinese New Year parades to show you weren’t afraid. The people began traveling out more — based on the Google traffic data — before the lockdowns were eased. When does it end? When we end it.
Ignoring Them Is the Only Way Out | National Review
When does COVID abnormalcy end? When we end it.www.nationalreview.com
Vaccine
- Thread starter Multi Sport
- Start date
met61
GOLD
...your "betters" are mocking you...yet you submissively bend over and ask for more, a modern day Tory.
... for the record, I threw up in my mouth when seeing Pelosi and swingers bar in the same sentence.
Nancy Pelosi Spotted… Violates mask mandate at DC Swingers Bar…
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citizenfreepress.com
Fonzie? Few people born after 1980 get that reference. I asked kiddo this morning if he knew who Fonzie was....his response was "isn't he that bear on the Muppets? Didn't Disney dump the Muppets because they hate them?" What's funny is neither one of them realizes they are now the two old farts talking about "Mattlock".
In any case, I recall a very special Happy Days episode where Fonzie didn't want to get his flu shot because he thought it would rob him of his cool, and then he wound up catching the flu anyways and meeting some vampire dude that tried to rob him of his cool, and then got the flu shot anyways like a nice little drone despite now being naturally immune. So kinda undermines the entire Fonzie argument....the entire history of the show is Fonzie gets tamed, settles down and becomes a Cunningham.
what-happened
GOLD
You are talking apples to oranges between the diseases you mentione and the current disease that is center stage.
The theory is the same but the covid vaccine is certainly lacking. People are and will continue to die from covid infections. The cases will differ based on vaxxed/unvaxxed/natural immunity but you get the picture. It's hard to have this exact conversation if you introduce a disease that has a robust vaccine specifically designed for durable immunity. Beyond that, covid, polio, MMR, hep are exactly the same...right.
Time to move on.
This is a question of politics — political culture, the authority of normal life versus the respected authorities in charge of public health. Public-health authorities don’t know how to stop giving you extra-restrictive advice. And they can’t learn how to stop giving it if we don’t learn how to stop asking for it. Or until we start ignoring what they say, and start punishing politicians who translate their guidance into nuisances.
We can’t eat enough medium-well steaks to get the CDC to stop recommending that we not eat medium-rare, let alone steak tartare. If you ask epidemiologists whether human conversation is safe, their minds call up computer animations of people projectile-vomiting red and blue blocks of “droplets” on each other. If you asked public-health authorities for permission to be born and live a life, there’s no way they could just, you know, approve of that in an unqualified way. You just have to remember that you’ll never be in less danger to yourself or others until dead.
They’re waiting for us — the people. The people began locking down and shutting in and buying masks last February, when public-health officials were telling you that masks were racist and that you should attend Chinese New Year parades to show you weren’t afraid. The people began traveling out more — based on the Google traffic data — before the lockdowns were eased. When does it end? When we end it.
Ignoring Them Is the Only Way Out | National Review
When does COVID abnormalcy end? When we end it.
bit of an old article but that's sort of why we are where we are. The public health authorities have thrown up their hands on certain things they can no longer control such as people gathering in private, no weddings funerals or birthdays, the 6 foot rule, masks outside, or keeping businesses perpetually shut. People in all but the bluest states have moved on. But in blue states, they can still exert pressure in some places like masking in businesses by threatening business licenses, airplanes by throwing you off and putting you on the don't fly list, schools. People aren't going to just defy them because that means losing your business or causing a problem for innocent workers put in the middle of this, not getting where you want to go, or having your kid kicked out of school. So as a result you have policies that increasingly don't make any sense. A few examples: adults in New York pretty much are packing in the bars but kids in school have to remain 6 ft apart and masked all days, you have to wear a mask into a crowded restaurant but when you get to the table you take it off, and in the Dakotas we ate indoors and shopped including at a crowded WallsDrugs but you go into a half empty gift shop on federal land they make you put on a mask (which sometimes we weren't even carrying with us). No more progress on this is going to be made in the blue states until 2022 if the Ds take a shelacking in the elections, and if anything the temptation in some crazy jurisdictions like LA, SF, and NY if a winter wave really surges will be to shut down things like school (which we are seeing a bit of in the blue Midwest).
Bruddah IZ
DA
The available clinical evidence of facemask efficacy is of low quality and the best available clinical evidence has mostly failed to show efficacy, with fourteen of sixteen identified randomized controlled trials comparing face masks to no mask controls failing to find statistically significant benefit in the intent‐to‐treat populations. Of sixteen quantitative meta‐analyses, eight were equivocal or critical as to whether evidence supports a public recommendation of masks, and the remaining eight supported a public mask intervention on limited evidence primarily on the basis of the precautionary principle.
Evidence for Community Cloth Face Masking to Limit the Spread of SARS‐CoV‑2: A Critical Review
Evidence for Community Cloth Face Masking to Limit the Spread of SARS‐CoV‑2: A Critical Review
Bruddah IZ
DA
Faith outpaced evidence when it comes to masks.-- Vinay Prasad
Not everything in that list is equal. Measles killed about 400-500 people per year before the vaccine. Covid has already killed 750,000. By any measure, covid is a lot worse than measles.
For scale, my kids got the chicken pox vaccine. That wasn’t because I had some deep seated fear of chicken pox. I’ve had shots, and I’ve had chicken pox. Chicken pox is worse. Decision made.
We don’t know yet what it will take to develop long term immunity for covid. Three shots? Five shots, like DTaP? Annual, like flu? Perhaps a good virologist can read the literature and tell us. I don’t think anyone knows yet.
kickingandscreaming
PREMIER
It's already happening or happened in some places. In San Diego this weekend, no masks were required in the vast majority of stores and restaurants I saw. In Florida, they have had pretty much no restrictions in over a year. It was interesting when I stopped for gas in LA county. Supposedly, masks are required but both times I saw numerous people without masks and no one telling them to put one on. The last thing that will go will be the mandates that can be enforced without confronting someone. Organizations will be threatened with losing their license and/or being fined - from a distance. Politicians/bureaucrats aren't stupid enough to actually get in someone's face to enforce their rules. They'll leave that to restaurant hosts/hostesses and flight attendants. What a bunch of f'ing cowards.Time to move on.
This is a question of politics — political culture, the authority of normal life versus the respected authorities in charge of public health. Public-health authorities don’t know how to stop giving you extra-restrictive advice. And they can’t learn how to stop giving it if we don’t learn how to stop asking for it. Or until we start ignoring what they say, and start punishing politicians who translate their guidance into nuisances.
We can’t eat enough medium-well steaks to get the CDC to stop recommending that we not eat medium-rare, let alone steak tartare. If you ask epidemiologists whether human conversation is safe, their minds call up computer animations of people projectile-vomiting red and blue blocks of “droplets” on each other. If you asked public-health authorities for permission to be born and live a life, there’s no way they could just, you know, approve of that in an unqualified way. You just have to remember that you’ll never be in less danger to yourself or others until dead.
They’re waiting for us — the people. The people began locking down and shutting in and buying masks last February, when public-health officials were telling you that masks were racist and that you should attend Chinese New Year parades to show you weren’t afraid. The people began traveling out more — based on the Google traffic data — before the lockdowns were eased. When does it end? When we end it.
Ignoring Them Is the Only Way Out | National Review
When does COVID abnormalcy end? When we end it.
Bruddah IZ
DA
Have you seen 750k death certificates to verify actual COD? With COVID as opposed to from COVID, big difference.
met61
GOLD
...many things we don't know yet...we don't have long term studies, and won't for a "long" time. Yet, we do know it doesn't provide immunity, causing CDC to change the age-old definition of vaccine / vaccination in September.
...your choice to allow the government to experiment with your kids...many of us want the same choice not to...yet you want my choice mandated until some virologist figures it out.
Desert Hound
DA
dad is going to tell you they work at 80%.
It is like arguing religion with a true believer.
Cowards? Is there some non-cowardly enforcement mechanism you recommend? Would you prefer they responded with a police visit, court summons, and $500 fine? Your complaint is that the rule is enforced at all, not that you dislike the mechanism.
You can argue that the rule should not exist. There is a system for that. Get out there, support your candidate, and win an election.
And, if your side loses like Mr. Elder lost, understand that a majority of people disagree with you.
No freaking way. Bad math on the part of the mathematician again.
Firstly, you are again committing the worldwide fallacy again. in 2018, post-vaccine, measles killed 140,000 people worldwide. Second, in epidemic conditions such as the 1920s measles in the United States was killing about 7-10K people per year in the US. Third, of the people that were dying of the measles were heavily slanted towards children while with COVID the people who are dying are largely older meaning in terms of years of life at stake measles was much more threatening. Fourth, COVID is a novel disease and one of the problems (which BTW is the primary reason which even with waning immunity against both illness and serious illness the vaccines are still working with death) is that when introduced the immune systems don't know how to deal with it....once the immune system recognizes it it does better....so when you had it introduced to indigenous populations that had not experienced measles (such as native americans or Hawaiians) the death rate approached 30%. Fifth, the death rate for the respiratory form of the disease was also 30% in the 20s, irrespective of whether indigenous or not. Sixth, measles had the potential to leave very severe permanent damage (much more than long covid) including lung scaring, blindness and infertility. Seventh, you constantly insist on using the COVID death rate number we know is somewhat inflated. Eighth, unlike COVID vaccines so far, the measles was very good at giving long lasting immunity after the defined series of shots...and despite all that we still haven't been able to irradicate it (I was exposed during the Disneyland incident and had to get the emergency booster).
Not saying COVID isn't bad. Not saying both diseases aren't bad. But measles was much more of a societal threat...the chief difference is measles was endemic while COVID is not.
he might trot out this meta study the left leaning papers have been circulating to trumpet a 53% reduction by masks! (which BTW, would mean masks really are better than vaccines). What they don't tell you it's just a meta study (which means garbage input from some garbage studies, including 3 Chinese propaganda studies which were widely panned, means garbage output) and even in the footnotes there's an acknowledgement that the best studies seem to indicate about a 10% reduction (which would be right in line with what I've been saying) and perhaps more if better masks were used.
Mask-wearing linked to 53% cut in Covid incidence, global study finds
Researchers said results highlight the need to continue with face coverings, social distancing and handwashing alongside vaccine programmes
www.theguardian.com
Hüsker Dü
DA
Don’t forget a future shingles shot! What’s in that? Duuuuuh
If you‘re going to accuse me of being bad at math, at least get your facts straight.
It is not “post vaccine” for the areas with a lot of measles deaths. Those deaths occur in the 1/6 of the world which is not vaccinated.
Now, can you make your point with the real facts? in 2018, 140,000 people in unvaccinated areas died of measles. The total incompletely population is about 1.1 billion. Never vaccinated population is about 1.3 billion.
Hard to make that stand up to the 15 million people the Economist estimates have died from covid. You’re wrong by about 2 orders of magnitude.
You can add in several years of measles, because endemic. But then you have to add in the next several years of covid, for the same reason. You’re still wrong by a factor of ten.
"Get your facts straight" says the man who ignored the numerous objections raised in my email.
The calculation you propose would require a calculation from the inception of measles (presumably the Antonine plague) through its run from the inception of COVID through the end of its runs (both of which might very well run infinitely). To be super accurate, you have to adjust on the basis of proportions of the population. Your a math guy....have fun with that...oh that's right you can't because of the lack of records from that time period.
But what do we know: well, we know it killed at inception huge swaths (assuming it was the Antonine plague) of the population in Rome, and vast swaths of the indigenous population of the Americas. The outbreak in Cuba, for example, killed 2/3 of the indigenous population in the epidemic of 1580 (IIRC) and wiped out 39% of the Inca population (after that population had been devastated by small pox)....so you know what I take the implication a little personally! Measles after small pox was the leading killer of indigenous sheltered populations, including the vast devastation in the Hawaiian and Pacific islands.
If your point is that vaccinated COVID is more of a problem than vaccinated measles...well sure I'll give you that....but that's not the point you are presumably trying to make because it doesn't support your argument or worldview (it in fact makes the opposite point). But the laughable (and offensive) part is that you don't realize you are comparing a novel epidemic disease to one that is endemic.
Desert Hound
DA
Science....
A meta-analysis of global research dating back two years, published in the The Lancet earlier this month, found natural immunity from COVID recovery provides more than 10 months of "strong" protection against reinfection.
The UCLA and University of Southern California researchers said it could be longer, given that their review was "limited by the length of current reported follow-up data." Robust protection afforded by vaccine-induced immunity is estimated to last around 6 months, the threshold at which the CDC and FDA are expected to recommend boosters for all age groups.
--
And yet our gov studiously avoids this topic. Many want a vaxx passport. A substantial portion of our population has stronger natural immunity. But the quest to continue security theater continues.
--
Stanford Medical School's Jay Bhattacharya, coauthor of the Great Barrington Declaration, emphasized The Lancet previously published a competing statement that claimed there is "no evidence for lasting protection" from natural immunity.
The medical journal "finally acknowledges reality," he tweeted, asking if CDC Director Rochelle Walensky and the Occupational Safety and Health Administration would follow suit.
A meta-analysis of global research dating back two years, published in the The Lancet earlier this month, found natural immunity from COVID recovery provides more than 10 months of "strong" protection against reinfection.
The UCLA and University of Southern California researchers said it could be longer, given that their review was "limited by the length of current reported follow-up data." Robust protection afforded by vaccine-induced immunity is estimated to last around 6 months, the threshold at which the CDC and FDA are expected to recommend boosters for all age groups.
--
And yet our gov studiously avoids this topic. Many want a vaxx passport. A substantial portion of our population has stronger natural immunity. But the quest to continue security theater continues.
--
Stanford Medical School's Jay Bhattacharya, coauthor of the Great Barrington Declaration, emphasized The Lancet previously published a competing statement that claimed there is "no evidence for lasting protection" from natural immunity.
The medical journal "finally acknowledges reality," he tweeted, asking if CDC Director Rochelle Walensky and the Occupational Safety and Health Administration would follow suit.