Vaccine

[watfly]

So we have some friends with very young kids, 2 under the age of 5 and there concerned about the wearing masks requirements of them.

The concern is about them developing there own individual identity. With a mask covering large portions of their face they think that may influence them becoming more independent or not.

Very young kids look in the mirror and discover themselves as independent unique individuals. With the masks they have a harder time doing that and that can depersonalize them and make them feel more submissive or controlled.

Not here to debate about masks but if we had preschool age kids think I would try to find or do something for them that's different vs the status quo at least where we live in SoCal.

Yeah, but if we don't mask them they could kill adults.

We rely on facial clues, including moving lips, for socialization, comprehension and development. Smiles are healthy, both to the giver and the recipient. Now they're irrelevant in schools, among other places.

 

[Bruddah IZ]

You may be right to some extent, but that doesn't make it right to put these burdens on kids because they can't fight back. It's abuse of kids and its abuse of power. I just can't rationalize it like you do. I'm kind of meh with many of the adult mandates, but when you lose your job because you won't subject yourself to medical treatment that the government has decided is the preferred treatment despite the fact there are alternatives that may actually be superior. That is incredibly troubling.

Pro-vaxxers are hoping theyʻll be cured of their Silver Bullet Symdrome.

 

[Grace T.]

Australia still unable to contain the Delta (despite having come out of winter)....

Australia COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

Australia Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

It's also increasingly appearing New Zealand has failed in containment.....

New Zealand COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

New Zealand Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

Dad4's favorite high masked high vaxxed singapore continues to show an increase

Singapore COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

Singapore Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

Heavily vaxxed iceland has also been unable to contain...

Iceland COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

Iceland Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

And for the record here's how test and trace South Korea continues to do.....

South Korea COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

South Korea Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

It's beginning to look like the only country that will have managed to near completely escape covid is Taiwan.

 

[what-happened]

Yeah, but if we don't mask them they could kill adults.

We rely on facial clues, including moving lips, for socialization, comprehension and development. Smiles are healthy, both to the giver and the recipient. Now they're irrelevant in schools, among other places.

The AAPs recommendation to mask children age 2 and up is lunacy and detoriates the crediblity of any type of covid guidance given by them. The EUCDC's masking policy for children is polar opposite of what the US recommendations are.

 

[Grace T.]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1433474227475128328

 

[watfly]

Ha - brilliant! I'm going to share some of his eloquent prose with a shrink buddy of mine and see if he can profile it. You just made my day...

Do you really what to do that? Personally, I have more fun speculating as to what's wrong with him than wanting to know his actual diagnosis.

 

[Grace T.]

Another one.....

Five Scandinavian countries limit or halt Moderna

Finland has joined Sweden, Denmark and Norway in either banning or discouraging young adults or teens from getting the Moderna COVID-19 vaccine, because of the increased risk of myocarditis —

www.thesuburban.com

We have enough vaccine choices (even without the AZ approval in the US) for a reasonable vaccine policy:

-Moderna for the near old and old....it seems to be more robust anyways
-Pfizer for the middle aged and near old
-J&J or 1 dose Pfizer for young men
-Pfizer for young women

Interestingly a lot of this is probably tied not just to the mechanism (mRNA v. traditional) but also to the dosage amounts (J&J being just one, Moderna being more potent).

 

[met61]

A better description is that adults, right and left, have successfully opposed most adult mandates.

And, when there is a mandate on adults, they complain LOUDLY. The mandate gets weakened or repealed and the kid mandate is what remains.

"...but Singapore" (if my memory serves me right)

 

[Bruddah IZ]

Something is screwy: the New York Times has been sensible twice in a single week.

Now writer David Leonhardt is pointing out what a lot of us have been saying pretty much the whole time: (1) predictions of doom based on people's so-called "bad behavior" often turn out to be embarrassingly off the mark, and (2) the "moralistic fable" behind COVID (whereby good and virtuous behavior makes the numbers go down and "reckless" behavior does the opposite) is unhelpful.

"The fable we tell ourselves," writes Leonhardt, "is that our day-to-day behavior dictates the course of the pandemic. When we are good — by staying socially distant and wearing our masks — cases are supposed to fall. When we are bad — by eating in restaurants, hanging out with friends and going to a theater or football game — cases are supposed to rise."

With school resuming and large crowds, often unmasked, assembling for all kinds of events, we heard plenty of stern warnings at the beginning of last month. Leonhardt cites Politico's headline "It May Only Get Worse." "The new school year is already a disaster," said Business Insider.

And then what happened?

Everything plummeted: cases, hospitalizations, deaths.

As I've said repeatedly over the past year and a half, I've just wanted to hear the so-called experts say, at least once in a while, "We don't know. We don't fully understand what's going on here."

But that's not as fun as lording it over the public with a false certainty.

Michael Osterholm, the former Biden COVID adviser who occasionally has something sensible to say, displayed the kind of humility I've been waiting for when he told Leonhardt: "We still are really in the cave ages in terms of understanding how viruses emerge, how they spread, how they start and stop, why they do what they do."

What a refreshing change from "Shut up and listen to the science."

A little late, though. Some of us have been treated not too kindly for saying these very things.

Now, as people begin to weary of it all, people like Leonhardt suddenly have the courage to say something.

But better late than never. I'm not a sore winner.—Tommie Wood

 

[watfly]

Where's Waldo?

 

[N00B]

I know far more people on the "left" that are willing to call out people in their "party" than those on the right.

I don’t disagree, but I do have the impression that one side is more vocal than the other and that influences perception.

 

[Bruddah IZ]

… is from page 267 of Richard W. Duesenberg’s insightful 1962 article “Individualism and Corporations” (available without charge on-line here) as it appears in Liberty Fund’s 1981 single-volume collection of the New Individualist Review:
]

A society of men, free to choose individually, and therefore free to make as many successes or failures as there are choices freely made, is definitely greater than the controlled society, limited to the powers and finite qualities of its collective controlling mind.

 

[Bruddah IZ]

In an article published by New York Times reporter Apoorva Mandavilli on Wednesday, Times readers were told that “nearly 900,000 children have been hospitalized with COVID-19 since the pandemic began.”

A correction issued on Thursday notes that the correct number is 63,000 between August 2020 and October 2021, which means Mandavilli exaggerated the number of child hospitalizations by 837,000 cases. Approximately 500 American children have eventually died from the disease. The exaggeration was included in a report on the debate surrounding whether and how to vaccinate children.

 

[Bruddah IZ]

Even older variants are not particularly dangerous for children. According to the CDC, of the 633,786 COVID-19 deaths since the pandemic began in February 2020, 470 were children under 18.

Any child’s death is tragic, but this number needs to be put into perspective. COVID-19 deaths among children last year are comparable to the number of children who die annually in automobile accidents (636 in 2018) and the estimated 480 deaths from flu among the same age group during the 2018–19 flu season. As Martin Kulldorff, professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School, put it, “We don’t shut down schools in flu season.”

We also don’t shut down schools or keep kids home for the respiratory syncytial virus, or RSV, another virus that most kids have had by the age of two—and that kills anywhere from 100 to 500 children under the age of five every year.

 

[crush]

 

[Hüsker Dü]

Where's Waldo?

View attachment 11842

Sure can see the difference between a Midwest crowd and a west coast crowd.

 

[GoldenGate]

​

​ Meanwhile, courtesy of worldometers -dot- info, let's check back in with Florida. The drop in COVID deaths there has been extremely sudden and sharp, even though the general public has not modified its behavior at all. (I live here, so I know.) The chart says it all: ​ ​ As a friend of mine puts it, thank goodness we can be sure the media will get right to the bottom of this!

So I checked back in with FL as you asked. That 7 day moving average of 17 deaths per day that you thought was so great is now at 75 - because FL holds back deaths for the express purpose of duping dumbfucks like you. It turns out that the decrease is neither sudden nor sharp. Too bad your dumbfuck friend is as easily duped as you. The media has already gotten to the bottom of this, which is that FL changed the way it reports Covid deaths so that recent deaths are not reported for weeks, giving the false impression that it's doing well.

 

[GoldenGate]

100%. Grace gives some good reasons. The left has this odd and apparently fear based mentality where its the children's responsibility to protect adults. Like I said before this is like not allowing kids on the Titanic for fear they might panic and flip the lifeboats and kill adults. If you think that school closures and mask and vaccine mandates are for the protection of children you need to take a deeper dive into the data.

I don't recall you calling out EOTL/GG on any of his inappropriate comments, so pot meet kettle. If you think his name calling, venom and blatant mischaracterizations are even remotely close to what the right leaning posters say here I question your observational skills. With maybe one exception, the right leaning posters tend to post facts for their arguments whereas the left leaning tend to post emotions and insults. Recall that EOTL has already been kicked off this forum once.

And as far as calling out others outside this board, how many on the left called the summer riots vs the right that called out the Jan 6 riot? You'll find that the right was far more critical of the 6th then the left of the summer riots. If you recall McConnell spoke out on the Senate floor and called out the rioters and Trump. Did Pelosi or anyone on the left do the same about the summer riots aka the "Summer of Love"?

I'm hardly the poster child for a male, white Trump righty (who I never voted for). I'm agnostic, pro-choice, socially liberal, small government minded and fiscal conservative, who try's to base his opinions on the evidence. My koolaid is more purple than red.

Hey Watfly, did Bruddah IZ claiming that only 17 people a day are dying of Covid in FL "tend to post facts", or did the evil left leaning liberals who pointed out why that is complete and utter bs and follow it up with actual facts constitute "facts"? Or are you just completely full of shit when you claim that the right wing clowns here post "facts"?

 

[Grace T.]

So my kid got home last week from a Catalina overnight with school Everyone there was doubled vaxxed or had confirmed natural immunity, they wore masks indoors or on transport including at night while sleeping with open windows, everyone took a Covid test the day before they left and the day they got back.

Interesting they despite all those precautions had a small COVID outbreak (now the question is does anything sneak in around school despite the testing). Further interesting the kids that fell ill are all double vaxxed (none of the naturally immune so far have fallen ill as far as I know).

 

[GoldenGate]

100%. Grace gives some good reasons. The left has this odd and apparently fear based mentality where its the children's responsibility to protect adults. Like I said before this is like not allowing kids on the Titanic for fear they might panic and flip the lifeboats and kill adults. If you think that school closures and mask and vaccine mandates are for the protection of children you need to take a deeper dive into the data.

I don't recall you calling out EOTL/GG on any of his inappropriate comments, so pot meet kettle. If you think his name calling, venom and blatant mischaracterizations are even remotely close to what the right leaning posters say here I question your observational skills. With maybe one exception, the right leaning posters tend to post facts for their arguments whereas the left leaning tend to post emotions and insults. Recall that EOTL has already been kicked off this forum once.

And as far as calling out others outside this board, how many on the left called the summer riots vs the right that called out the Jan 6 riot? You'll find that the right was far more critical of the 6th then the left of the summer riots. If you recall McConnell spoke out on the Senate floor and called out the rioters and Trump. Did Pelosi or anyone on the left do the same about the summer riots aka the "Summer of Love"?

I'm hardly the poster child for a male, white Trump righty (who I never voted for). I'm agnostic, pro-choice, socially liberal, small government minded and fiscal conservative, who try's to base his opinions on the evidence. My koolaid is more purple than red.

Hey Watfly, did the right wing nut job Grace T. "tend to post facts" when she claimed that it was Gavin Newsom's fault that the City of Los Angeles can implement ordinances regulating Covid-19? And then when I pointed out the exact statute that said she was wrong, the "strict constructionist" babble nonsense about burning animals but still refused to provide any legal authority to support her position?