Two girls fighting what is everyone's responsibility?

texanincali said:
Thank you for your response in the previous post - much appreciated.

Seeing as you disagree, I am curious as to why that is. You actually bring up perfect examples in the post above. When you have witnessed an elbow to the ribs (deliberate) or a kick to the calf (deliberate) in "little girls" soccer, did you send the off straight away? If not, what did you do?
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if i see an act deserving a send off in any age game, i send off the player. my disagreement is in your blaming the referee for that act to begin with. or saying that if i don't call a push then the game is out of control and i caused the fight. the players actions are dealt with accordingly, after they happen. can calling a tight game keep things from happening? maybe, maybe not. that's up to the players, who are taught by coaches and parents on how to behave, not only in a game of soccer, but as a person in society.
 
baldref said:
if i see an act deserving a send off in any age game, i send off the player. my disagreement is in your blaming the referee for that act to begin with. or saying that if i don't call a push then the game is out of control and i caused the fight. the players actions are dealt with accordingly, after they happen. can calling a tight game keep things from happening? maybe, maybe not. that's up to the players, who are taught by coaches and parents on how to behave, not only in a game of soccer, but as a person in society.
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I get where you are coming from - and honestly, I may have not communicated properly. I don't necessarily disagree with you.

I don't blame a referee for missing calls, that is part and parcel to the game. What I do blame referees for is not adhering to the laws of the game. Let's put aside kids younger than U10 - very, very rarely do I ever see a kid sent off and I rarely even see cautions in the U11, U12, U13 age groups - although to be fair, they are happening more often as of late.

What I do see are referees that don't hand out the proper punishment (send off, caution) because...well, they are only young kids. Reckless and dangerous tackles happen numerous times in competitive U11-U13 games, way too much for my liking. Most of the time they are dealt with by calling a foul, but in my opinion just calling a foul is not enough.

I truly believe that if the laws of the game were followed more from the first year of select through U13-U14, we would not only see more free flowing games by the time kids reach U15, but we would have better players that would actually have to learn how to defend instead of just chopping opponents down.

I guess in short - a sending off is a sending off, whether it is U11 or U19, a caution is a caution whether U11 or U19 - but very rarely do I see them called the same way. For me, that is the issue.
 
I think that the problem with this thread is that people are looking for absolutes when in fact the truth lies in the center. Refs are confronted with different types of team mentalities from game to game. A stern verbal warning in one game may work just fine, while sending off multiple players may have an aggravating result in another. A couple of weeks ago we were in a game that was very aggressive and the ref warned, and then started sending off players. The players being sent off were high fived by their coach and teammates upon reaching the sidelines. The behavior worsened and remained for the balance of the match. We were short on playing time because of the constant stoppage of play. All in all it was a gross deviations from a normal match, but by no fault of the refs. I think that most refs do their level best to control the game and in most instances their authority is respected, but not in all cases. Some teams are trained to push the level of the laws to the breaking point and prosper by doing so.
 
texanincali said:
I get where you are coming from - and honestly, I may have not communicated properly. I don't necessarily disagree with you.

I don't blame a referee for missing calls, that is part and parcel to the game. What I do blame referees for is not adhering to the laws of the game. Let's put aside kids younger than U10 - very, very rarely do I ever see a kid sent off and I rarely even see cautions in the U11, U12, U13 age groups - although to be fair, they are happening more often as of late.

What I do see are referees that don't hand out the proper punishment (send off, caution) because...well, they are only young kids. Reckless and dangerous tackles happen numerous times in competitive U11-U13 games, way too much for my liking. Most of the time they are dealt with by calling a foul, but in my opinion just calling a foul is not enough.

I truly believe that if the laws of the game were followed more from the first year of select through U13-U14, we would not only see more free flowing games by the time kids reach U15, but we would have better players that would actually have to learn how to defend instead of just chopping opponents down.

I guess in short - a sending off is a sending off, whether it is U11 or U19, a caution is a caution whether U11 or U19 - but very rarely do I see them called the same way. For me, that is the issue.
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maybe that is true, in a way. but a caution as i said before is a tool. if you can get the same result from a younger player by talking to them, and explaining what it is they can not do, because some don't know, then that can even be batter than just a yellow card. and you also need to understand, with so many clubs and teams, there is such a huge difference in level of play, some kids just aren't coordinated enough, and something clumsy that by a skilled player would be a caution, might not be.

but i do understand what you're saying, i just think there are more layers than you give credit to, and it's a bit more complicated.
 
Brian said:
I think that the problem with this thread is that people are looking for absolutes when in fact the truth lies in the center. Refs are confronted with different types of team mentalities from game to game. A stern verbal warning in one game may work just fine, while sending off multiple players may have an aggravating result in another. A couple of weeks ago we were in a game that was very aggressive and the ref warned, and then started sending off players. The players being sent off were high fived by their coach and teammates upon reaching the sidelines. The behavior worsened and remained for the balance of the match. We were short on playing time because of the constant stoppage of play. All in all it was a gross deviations from a normal match, but by no fault of the refs. I think that most refs do their level best to control the game and in most instances their authority is respected, but not in all cases. Some teams are trained to push the level of the laws to the breaking point and prosper by doing so.
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hopefully, the coaches behavior was documented in the supplemental report and sent to the proper authority. and how many parents allow their kids to play for such a coach?
 
Grace T. said:
If I'm mistaken, I apologize in advance but this sounds a little bit classist. I can tell you my DYS's team has played against poor largely Latino teams from the barrio and white/Asian teams from rich neighborhoods. Never had any problem with the Latino or poor teams...they were the most brilliant of the passers and played true possession soccer. The team my DYS had an issue with was a largely white, uppermiddle class team from a swanky neighborhood. Winning at any cost is a mentality that can happen in either poor or rich neighborhoods.
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Not sure why you quoted my post. I made no reference to race nor cultures. In saying "low-class," I meant this in a manners and behavioral sense, not like a class of society. I should have said uncouth.
 
coachrefparent said:
Not sure why you quoted my post. I made no reference to race nor cultures. In saying "low-class," I meant this in a manners and behavioral sense, not like a class of society. I should have said uncouth.
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Which is why I qualified my own response. No worries. I thought it might just be an imprecise use of words...sorry if I misunderstood.
 
Eagle33 said:
How is inexperienced referee suppose to control sideline behavior of parents who have no clue about LOTG or coaches out of control? I've seen a lot more problems at u-little games lately because of inexperienced referees.
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Maybe were talking semantics, but a ref is not responsible for controlling the sideline behavior of the parents. The coaches are responsible for controlling the behavior of the parents as is clearly stated by most, if not all, youth leagues. Refs dealing directly with parents usually only escalates the situation. Plus that is exactly what the problem parents want to do is get under the skin of the ref and by getting in an argument with the ref the parent has accomplished his/her goal. The experienced ref goes to the coach to deal with the problem parent and if the behavior continues the coach is displined or potentially the game is ended. I have never seen any guidance that recommends that the ref confront a parent. USSF guidance is as follows:

Dealing with Problem Parents
• Remain calm.
• Do not get into discussions or arguments with the sidelines.
• Enlist the support of the coach. Ask him to speak with the offending spectators and let him know that, if the behavior continues, the game will not. This will usually be enough to quiet most parents (other parents may understand the consequences and help with the problem spectator).
• If you have asked the coach to deal with problem parents and the situation continues, ask the coach to have the spectator leave the area. If the spectator refuses, tell the coach that, if the spectator is not removed, the game will end. Give the coach a reasonable amount of time (a few minutes) to deal with the situation. Remember, you cannot dismiss a spectator directly but must work through the coach or a tournament or league official.
• If the parent does not leave, you should feel free to end the game. Include any misbehavior on the part of the spectators in your game report to the league so that this type of behavior can be disciplined and stopped. Most leagues and state associations have methods for dealing with bad behavior, but doing so often requires a written report from the referee.
 
I have not read all the posts so this may have been mentioned. Referee's are trained on how to handle this type of situation so it does not escalate. First of all, a referee should NEVER touch any youth player involved in a fight. The referee does have a very useful tool in the whistle. I have found that a very loud whistle only a couple feet from the players is enough to get their attention and allow the players teammates to separate them. The trick is to prevent the teammates from not escalating the situation by using the whistle and loud voice commands to regain control. I have never had a fight, boys or girls, escalate beyond the initial two players. Parents should NEVER enter the field. I have witnessed a fight that escalated because parents stepped on the field to break up the fight and ended up getting hit or kicked.
 
The Driver said:
They call some refs fat slobs who don't leave the circle
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The Driver said:
Not i said the parent
I said they
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Yes "they" do. In front of the "u littles, " on the sideline, in front of you. Of course there are overweight referees that are not physically capable of moving far from the circle. As are there overweight referees that get up and down the field. And regular weight referees that don't move either.

So, parents of 7,8,9,10 year old soccer players, in a public setting, think it is remotely reasonable or appropriate to state out load that the referee "Is a Fat Slob who doesn't leave the center circle." On the sidelines of a youth soccer game. In front of acquaintances and strangers. I can only imagine what they say to their kids on the ride home.

And everyone here wasted 4 pages trying to figure out what mentality and conditions could result in 11-13 year old girls physically fighting each other on the soccer pitch. Like with most youth problems, its not their fault. They are raised by cretins, both their own parents and those around them in the community.
 
coachrefparent said:
If a thug is someone who has no respect for others, says "fuck" like its going out style, talks back to referees, looks to foul away from the ball, etc., there are too many of these even at ulittles. Sorry, its fact.
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that's your classroom

Call mine a thug and you will not ever ever ref her against.

#word
 
The Driver said:
that's your classroom

Call mine a thug and you will not ever ever ref her against.

#word
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I have no idea who your child is. I would never tell a little kid they are a thug, even if they were. But in any event, I'm assuming your child doesn't do the things I described anyway.
 
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