Two girls fighting what is everyone's responsibility?

If any of my kids played dirty or took the first punch the Yellow or Red card would be the least of their problems!
 
Grace T. said:
I don't get the "let them play on" philosophy, particularly with the youngers. I get that we don't want to disrupt the game for every little foul and/or injury. I also get that calling everything just leads to players flopping. But when games get out of control, one leading cause is because the refs are letting them play on, a series of minor offenses begin to escalate, soon the parents are getting all angry, and the ref looses control of the game.
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That's true. Some referees do not have a command presence on the field, they don't talk to the players, they don't talk to the coaches, they don't address the parents when appropriate. I witnessed a State level referee working a tournament do that this weekend. My style is appreciated by some and hated by others. I am quick to address the parents on the sideline and inform them their comments are unwarranted and violate the Cal South Code of Conduct (click here to view).

On the pitch, I'm constantly talking to the players, making eye contact, facial expressions that demonstrate my displeasure. Fouls I let go (trifling) or fouls that are borderline, I give the benefit of the doubt to the player, but will talk to the player and say something like "You do that again and I'm giving you a yellow." When a foul occurs and its an advantage situation, I signal and try to yell "Advantage" rather than "Play On" so the players and coaches know I saw the foul and I'm not calling it because of advantage.

With regard to game dynamics, I find that coaches that scream and shout and complain about everything, feed into the parents on the sideline that adopt the same style, which feeds the players who become more aggressive. I find that by shutting down the parental side at the first sign of trouble, the players think (...damn... this guy just told my Dad to zip it or leave ... I better just listen to coach). I'm also quick to address the parents whenever their comments cross the line of creating the potential for the other set of parents to respond (e.g. "Ref!!!! Give him a Red, that was a Red," which always riles up the other set of parents and then we have the battle of the Dumbass Dads talking smack to each other.
 
Grace T. said:
I don't get the "let them play on" philosophy, particularly with the youngers. I get that we don't want to disrupt the game for every little foul and/or injury. I also get that calling everything just leads to players flopping. But when games get out of control, one leading cause is because the refs are letting them play on, a series of minor offenses begin to escalate, soon the parents are getting all angry, and the ref looses control of the game.
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Agree. A couple yellows when we played the same team kept it a soccer game, not a UFC match.

It seems when girls don't have the soccer skills to play the game, they go with what they can do which is get as physical as they can, which is fine as long as the elbows stay in and the full hand shoves from behind don't occur and dirty play doesn't enter into the game.
 
socalkdg said:
Agree. A couple yellows when we played the same team kept it a soccer game, not a UFC match.

It seems when girls don't have the soccer skills to play the game, they go with what they can do which is get as physical as they can, which is fine as long as the elbows stay in and the full hand shoves from behind don't occur and dirty play doesn't enter into the game.
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It's not just the girls....the U9 boys do it too. We encountered a team at a tournament a few weeks back that had the elbows out, full blown shoving (including our striker on the run into the post), and a kick the keeper's groin. They were also jumping up the line on the throw ins, impeding away from the ball and the refs weren't calling any of it. When the parents on both ends started to catcall at each other, I started getting nervous that something might happen. DYS team had the better soccer skills....they are still playing some kickball but for the most part try and possess it or pass it. The other team had a do anything and everything philosophy to get the ball up to the goal. It was the first time our team encountered a very physical team....they had the look of fear in them the first half and got pounded, but was proud that by the 2nd half they had this look that they were going to at least keep it close and played like animals. We lost, but we kept it close, and if the 2nd had been the entire game would have won. I still say our team played the better soccer.
 
Grace T. said:
I don't get the "let them play on" philosophy, particularly with the youngers. I get that we don't want to disrupt the game for every little foul and/or injury. I also get that calling everything just leads to players flopping. But when games get out of control, one leading cause is because the refs are letting them play on, a series of minor offenses begin to escalate, soon the parents are getting all angry, and the ref looses control of the game.
Click to expand...
but the bigger leading cause is the coach allowing the players to play like that, or, even encouraging it, along with the player's parents allowing it. the referees don't coach your kids how to play dirty or lose their tempers, nor do we parent the kids to act like thugs. it may be true that a referee who can see the temperature of a game rising, can help to control it, but that isn't always the case. sometimes, thugs will be thugs, and all we can do is deal with it after the fact.
 
baldref said:
but the bigger leading cause is the coach allowing the players to play like that, or, even encouraging it, along with the player's parents allowing it. the referees don't coach your kids how to play dirty or lose their tempers, nor do we parent the kids to act like thugs. it may be true that a referee who can see the temperature of a game rising, can help to control it, but that isn't always the case. sometimes, thugs will be thugs, and all we can do is deal with it after the fact.
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I blame it on the Refs>coaches>parents>village
 
MWN said:
That's true. Some referees do not have a command presence on the field, they don't talk to the players, they don't talk to the coaches, they don't address the parents when appropriate. I witnessed a State level referee working a tournament do that this weekend. My style is appreciated by some and hated by others. I am quick to address the parents on the sideline and inform them their comments are unwarranted and violate the Cal South Code of Conduct (click here to view).

On the pitch, I'm constantly talking to the players, making eye contact, facial expressions that demonstrate my displeasure. Fouls I let go (trifling) or fouls that are borderline, I give the benefit of the doubt to the player, but will talk to the player and say something like "You do that again and I'm giving you a yellow." When a foul occurs and its an advantage situation, I signal and try to yell "Advantage" rather than "Play On" so the players and coaches know I saw the foul and I'm not calling it because of advantage.

With regard to game dynamics, I find that coaches that scream and shout and complain about everything, feed into the parents on the sideline that adopt the same style, which feeds the players who become more aggressive. I find that by shutting down the parental side at the first sign of trouble, the players think (...damn... this guy just told my Dad to zip it or leave ... I better just listen to coach). I'm also quick to address the parents whenever their comments cross the line of creating the potential for the other set of parents to respond (e.g. "Ref!!!! Give him a Red, that was a Red," which always riles up the other set of parents and then we have the battle of the Dumbass Dads talking smack to each other.
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i agree in principle to most of the things you say, and i do some of the same things like not putting up with dumbass coaches and parents, but, it shouldn't be our job to police these people. they should act like civilized, intelligent human beings. unfortunately, that is not the case for the most part.
many referees who are very good referees, don't have the ability to play policeman, or counselor to these "people" who are abusing them, the other team, and each other. responsibility for your own actions, while watching your kids play a game should be basic common courtesy and sense.
 
The Driver said:
I ain't looking up shit

U Littles aren't thugs especially on the dd side of the game
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Girls side has less physicality, and part of that is social conditioning. Parents treat girls like "girls", then act shocked and surprised when Suzie from the other team cracks the hell out of their daughter. If they had a son who got cracked by Johnny from the other team they'd be telling their son to suck it up and fight back. But for whatever reason most parents I see allow their daughter to play timidly, as if taking a hard hit (or dishing it out) isn't part of the game. Not dirty play, physical play. Definitely not throwing punches.
 
BeepBeep Boop said:
Girls side has less physicality, and part of that is social conditioning. Parents treat girls like "girls", then act shocked and surprised when Suzie from the other team cracks the hell out of their daughter. If they had a son who got cracked by Johnny from the other team they'd be telling their son to suck it up and fight back. But for whatever reason most parents I see allow their daughter to play timidly, as if taking a hard hit (or dishing it out) isn't part of the game. Not dirty play, physical play. Definitely not throwing punches.
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I have yet to see my dd play against a *thug*

I have seen refs and coaches that let the game get ugly

My dd isn't allowed to throw

My dd isn't allowed to put her shin bone against the head of anyone's dd on the field or in the classroom
 
baldref said:
but the bigger leading cause is the coach allowing the players to play like that, or, even encouraging it, along with the player's parents allowing it. the referees don't coach your kids how to play dirty or lose their tempers, nor do we parent the kids to act like thugs. it may be true that a referee who can see the temperature of a game rising, can help to control it, but that isn't always the case. sometimes, thugs will be thugs, and all we can do is deal with it after the fact.
Click to expand...

But the opposing players and parents can't control for bad coaching and clueless parenting on the other side. The reality is there are coaches out there that believe in winning at any cost over teaching. It's up to the ref to ensure that those coaches dont do it in a way that violates the laws. If those coaches think they'll get away with it they'll continue the race to the bottom. And if parents and players don't think the ref is there to keep things fair and safe they'll be encouraged to take matters in their own hands. The ref is certainly not the most culpable. But it's their job to enforce the rules.
 
baldref said:
but the bigger leading cause is the coach allowing the players to play like that, or, even encouraging it, along with the player's parents allowing it. the referees don't coach your kids how to play dirty or lose their tempers, nor do we parent the kids to act like thugs. it may be true that a referee who can see the temperature of a game rising, can help to control it, but that isn't always the case. sometimes, thugs will be thugs, and all we can do is deal with it after the fact.
Click to expand...
Funny you mention that as our head coach had a run in with theirs. Warming up before a 9 am game. We are at one end of the field warming up, daughter in goal while the girls doing a pass then shoot drill. The coach of the other team comes over and tells us to get to the other end because they are visitors and they get to choose sides. Our coach says that is for when the game starts, their coach starts to argue and yell, so our girls gather up and just go to the sideline with coach. You are very right about kids being a reflection of their coach, as are the parents. You referees just get to be the babysitters.
 
socalkdg said:
Funny you mention that as our head coach had a run in with theirs. Warming up before a 9 am game. We are at one end of the field warming up, daughter in goal while the girls doing a pass then shoot drill. The coach of the other team comes over and tells us to get to the other end because they are visitors and they get to choose sides. Our coach says that is for when the game starts, their coach starts to argue and yell, so our girls gather up and just go to the sideline with coach. You are very right about kids being a reflection of their coach, as are the parents. You referees just get to be the babysitters.
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Interesting, since visitors NEVER gets to choose side, it's ALWAYS the home team for ALL tournaments and league games.
 
socalkdg said:
Funny you mention that as our head coach had a run in with theirs. Warming up before a 9 am game. We are at one end of the field warming up, daughter in goal while the girls doing a pass then shoot drill. The coach brings of the other team comes over and tells us to get to the other end because they are visitors and they get to choose sides. Our coach says that is for when the game starts, their coach starts to argue and yell, so our girls gather up and just go to the sideline with coach. You are very right about kids being a reflection of their coach, as are the parents. You referees just get to be the babysitters.
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I've seen so many similar examples. and the truth of the matter is, our referee base has many good referees who can officiate games just beautiful. but not all of these good referees have the experience and where with all to deal with, pardon me for saying, assholes. it is truly a shame that this is the state of youth sports. i saw some incredible soccer this weekend at blues cup. i also saw loads of crap from coaches and parents, none of which was necessary or enhanced or advanced their players or teams goals.
 
Grace T. said:
But the opposing players and parents can't control for bad coaching and clueless parenting on the other side. The reality is there are coaches out there that believe in winning at any cost over teaching. It's up to the ref to ensure that those coaches dont do it in a way that violates the laws. If those coaches think they'll get away with it they'll continue the race to the bottom. And if parents and players don't think the ref is there to keep things fair and safe they'll be encouraged to take matters in their own hands. The ref is certainly not the most culpable. But it's their job to enforce the rules.
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again, especially with younger players, your referees, which may be very good at refereeing soccer, may not be experienced enough to deal with out of control teams, coaches or parents. it's not their fault if coach A thinks is OK for sally to kick jane. it's not their fault if sally's parents encourage her to beat on jane. they know the laws of the game and use them to the best of their abilities. if sally punches jane and they see it, then sally gets sent off. they can't stop sally from acting like a thug.
 
The Driver said:
I have yet to see my dd play against a *thug*

I have seen refs and coaches that let the game get ugly

My dd isn't allowed to throw

My dd isn't allowed to put her shin bone against the head of anyone's dd on the field or in the classroom
Click to expand...
then you're not the problem nor is your daughter. but i have seen the thugs, although i would rather not have. i guess i've just seen more games than you have.
 
baldref said:
again, especially with younger players, your referees, which may be very good at refereeing soccer, may not be experienced enough to deal with out of control teams, coaches or parents. it's not their fault if coach A thinks is OK for sally to kick jane. it's not their fault if sally's parents encourage her to beat on jane. they know the laws of the game and use them to the best of their abilities. if sally punches jane and they see it, then sally gets sent off. they can't stop sally from acting like a thug.
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The point which initiated this dialogue isn't that a ref can prevent it. It's that when the ref sees the infraction they should enforce the laws while often times games spin out of control if a ref chooses to ignore the initial more minor infractions rather than set his or her authority up front. If a ref ignores the infraction it only encourages those certain coaches and players to push the envelope further and the other side to retaliate.
 
Grace T. said:
The point which initiated this dialogue isn't that a ref can prevent it. It's that when the ref sees the infraction they should enforce the laws while often times games spin out of control if a ref chooses to ignore the initial more minor infractions rather than set his or her authority up front. If a ref ignores the infraction it only encourages those certain coaches and players to push the envelope further and the other side to retaliate.
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and when the ref calls every single little foul, it ruins the game and the coaches and parents bitch about that too. your blame is misguided, except in very, very, very, few situations. and in those situations that do exist, where the referee isn't "up to snuff" so to speak, that's when the parent or the coach steps in and tells their kid to knock the crap off.
 
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