The Driver
PREMIER
Please try to avoid fighting
I'm all for protecting self though.
You don't get anything
You don't get the fact that little girls are fighting
LMBAO
Two girls fighting what is everyone's responsibility?
- Thread starter socalkdg
- Start date
I'm all for protecting self though.
You don't get the fact that little girls are fighting
LMBAO
Sheriff Joe
DA
Did you see any crap refs? I sure did. A big floater right in the middle of field 19, and I don't complain about refs .
BeepBeep Boop
SILVER ELITE
You can't even troll properly. Dumbass.
The Driver
PREMIER
I've been called a troll and a snowflake today
I still say fighting in girls soccer is wack
I still say ref>Coach >parent
I still say fighting in girls soccer is wack
I still say ref>Coach >parent
Surfref
PREMIER
Wasn't me...I was on 16.
Fighting is wack, but it does happen. So accept it and learn to understand that even little girls can learn thug behavior from their coach and parents. Otherwise sign your dd up for ballet.
We were watching our niece this weekend and it was amazing the learned behavior of some little girls; even teenage girls don't engage in some of this behavior because they know that they will get their butt kicked in or thrown out of the game. Smack talking seems to start at a younger age, even to refs that did absolutely nothing. If a child warrants a talk at a stoppage, the child warrants a card. These kids know that they get one freebie and thus have no problem being aggressive.
Sheriff Joe
DA
I didn't think it was you, but he was definitely a Homer.
Who gives a yellow for delay when the sub is still running to her position?
Surfref
PREMIER
A "Homer" at Blues Cup???? Highly unlikely as the refs were from all over California and out of state. I worked with referee's from Bakersfield, Mexico, SF Bay Area, Oregon, Cerritos, San Bernardino, and El Cajon. One referee was military and had recently transferred to SoCal.
Sheriff Joe
DA
Just guessing, you would know more about that than me.
Thats what my dad used to do with us.
We were all males, at least at that point in our lives.
baldref
GOLD
wasn't me either. and i was busy watching my game so i didn't see him/her.
are there crap referees? sure.
texanincali
SILVER ELITE
This is where we differ - and I don't think we can start cleaning up the game until it is done in the younger age groups. Referees are not there to play counselor, they are not there to dictate the pace of the game and they are not there to teach kids the rules. They are there to apply the rules during the match, plain and simple.
A caution is not a tool, it is something given to a player that clearly violates the laws of the game for reasons clearly written in the laws of the game. As a matter of fact, a player on a caution is often times substituted at higher levels when the manager thinks that player is at risk of being sent off, thus putting the team at a disadvantage. When a caution is used strictly as a tool and not as a "one step closer to getting sent off", there is no point in giving it - especially if a referee takes into account that a player is already on a yellow when the next major offense takes place.
Soccer is the only sport I can think of that applies the laws of the game are applied differently based on what age kids are. In basketball a foul is a foul and when you receive 5 or 6 of them, you foul out of a game - other than maybe kindergartners, basketball players don't get an extra allotment of fouls when they are young. In baseball, a strike is a strike (to be fair, strike zone maybe a bit bigger for the little ones), a ball is a ball and an out is an out. In football, a clumsy, slow kid doesn't get to pull the face mask of an opponent just because he is slower and clumsier.
Again, I am very appreciative of the fact that you are out there refereeing games so our kids have a chance to play. However, it is worrisome to me that any referee would take "coordination" into consideration when applying the laws of the game. A late tackle is a late tackle, that endangers an opposing player no matter how "clumsy" a player is. The laws of the game clearly state what the punishment is for endangering an opponent.
Now, I do not want to come across as advocating sending off and cautioning every player age 5-18 the same way across the board, common sense does have to come into play - I think this is where you are trying to make your point. But we need to start somewhere, and that somewhere has to be with the younger players - but more so on the yellow card type of offenses. Sending offs should be the same throughout every age group.
Take the example of a player deliberately elbowing an opposing player in the ribs. If that player begins that type of behavior at 10 (God forbid 6,7,8) and only receives a caution or a stern talking to by the referee, that is not enough to cut that type of behavior out of her game. Once she gets away with only a caution the first time, then she knows she can get away with it again. As the years go by, she has now elbowed opponents 20 times and never has been sent off. Add to that, she is now getting older and a bit wiser, so she expands her arsenal to a little kick out here and there, the elbows now rise to head level, she has begun to pull some hair every now and again and she seems to get away with two footed tackles - when she gets to be 14-15, it is too late to change her mentality. Now, all of this could have been avoided if the referee had the gumption to send her off after that very first deliberate elbow to the ribs when she was 9. I could go on and on about this, but I think you can tell where I am going.
The other thing that bothers me is the fact that someone mentioned previously, you can tell how a kid is being raised by their behavior on the field. Once any kid walks across those white lines, they are no longer in their parents or coaches domain, they are in the referees domain and the players abide by the laws of the game in which the referee is applying or they get to go sit on the bench with the coach. The beauty of this sport is that everyone is treated the same inside the lines. Race, wealth, single parent, two parents, public school, private school, home school - none of it matters, they all play by the same rules during a match.
As for speaking with captains or coaches, it is bothersome that you as a referee has deemed the captains as "more of a figure head." It isn't the job of the referee to decide if a kid is a good enough leader to be a captain, it is the job of the referee to speak to the "captains" each team has designated before the game, during the game and even after the game if needed. If this is done at the first sign of a game getting out of hand, you are correct, there should be no need to ever bring the coaches into the conversation. A very simple chat with the captains such as "listen you two, get your teammates to cut the crap out immediately, or I will not hesitate to go to my back pocket" will go a lot further than you think. Furthermore, if/when you do have to send a player off, you now have the security of already having "warned" each team.
As you can tell, this is a hot button topic for me - and everyone wants the solution to be so complicated or ask referee's to become psychologists. For me it is simple, apply the laws the same way across age groups, from young to professional. When, and only when we begin to do this, we will begin to not only make our on the field product more enjoyable to watch, but we will also begin to develop better players.
Sheriff Joe
DA
As there are crazy sideliners, but yellow cards 6 to 1? As you can tell I am still a little concerned. Just venting.
Surfref
PREMIER
I am almost always respectful of other people's views on this forum, but your extra long post is a load of bullshit. I wish I had the technical knowhow to post the links to the US Soccer referee training videos that clearly state that a Yellow Card is just one "tool" that the referee can use to manage the game. The training videos also discuss that not all fouls need to be called and the referee should only call the fouls that need to be called to maintain control af the game (game management). I once watched a BU18 game and counted all of the fouls I saw. By the end of the game I had counted 82 fouls of which the referee whistled only 17 (2 yellow cards) of them and signaled advantage 3 times. The other fouls were not called because the player played through the foul, the foul was in the corner or near the goal line with the ball going out of play and the CR gave a corner or goal kick, ball went out for a throw-in, or the foul did not effect the game. The game of soccer, especially the youth game, would be unwatchable if a referee called every foul.
The LOTG are not applied the same across all age groups. Referee's are trained not to apply the LOTG equally across all age groups. Example: A 10y/o will use their hands to protect their face from a ball while an 18y/o will just head it. Did the 10y/o do anything wrong, no, but the parents and probably you will be yelling for handball.
As for your statement, "Once any kid walks across those white lines, they are no longer in their parents or coaches domain, they are in the referees domain and the players abide by the laws of the game in which the referee is applying or they get to go sit on the bench with the coach." That is BS. The parents have a lot to do with how that child will behave. A child learns the majority of their behaviors from heir parents. If the parent praises the kid for a nasty late tackle or hat he got a Yellow card for then that player will continue the nasty late tackles. If the parent scolds the kid for the late nasty tackle and the Yellow card then it probably will not happen again. Most parents set a great or at least good example for their kids, but there are parents that set a poor example for their kids and it effects how the kid plays on the field. All the referee can do is call the fouls and give cards.
If you are worried about an elbow or forearm to the ribs when players are trying to make space, than maybe you need to have your kid find another sport. Soccer is a full contact sport. As players get older they get more physical. My DD will have multiple bruises and pinch marks after one of her college games and she rarely complains about the level of physical play or officiating.
Let's end on a positive not. I do agree with you on the use of team Captains. They can be a useful "tool" for the referee if they are mature enough and have some leadership skills. I will often address an on field issue with captains, but the coach and spectators never hear us talk. IMO captains usually do not start to possess the maturity and leadership skills until 14y/o. Too many coaches select the best player as the captain when they should be selecting their player that shows the best leadership skills.
Surfref
PREMIER
Some teams play more reckless than others, thus more Cautions (Yellow cards) for them.
Sheriff Joe
DA
3 were deserved in my novice opinion and 1 or 2 that would have led to an ejection for the other team were missed, the ref even turned and waved to our sideline after the game. Spilt Milk.
texanincali
SILVER ELITE
Not exactly sure what you are on about - but I don't disagree with anything you said. As a matter of fact I clearly stated that common sense needs to come into play with different age groups, and this would apply to the examples you mention above.
I am not debating the calling of hand balls, advantage being played, or ordinary fouls being called or not called - those have been and always will be subjective as to what that particular referee sees.
You are obviously using the word "tool" differently than I am interpreting. I read it as "issuing a yellow card for an offense that may not be a yellow card offense" to grab back control of the game. I think we can both agree (or at least I hope so) that referees issue a yellow card because that player just committed a yellow card offense - nothing more, nothing less.
What I am speaking about are obvious yellow and red card offenses (the thread was started because of a fight) that go unpunished or underpunished too often for my liking. As for the statement I made that you think is BS - go back and read it again - we are saying the same exact thing - and you seem to be handling those situations just as I would like a referee to. My point was that no matter what environment a kid comes from, when they break the rules, the referee is the sole judge and jury as to how the player is punished. If a kids parents cheer them on when receiving a yellow card for a nasty tackle, or a yellow card for persistent infringement - I don't think they will continue to cheer them on when they get sent off and suspended for the following match. My issue remains that this is not done often enough.
Lastly, I am not worried about contact in soccer, I have been through it and so have my kids - but again, go back and read the example given earlier about a kid deliberately elbowing an opponent in the ribs - the example given did not say this occurred during the run of play or accidentally - I took that example to being akin to punching a player in the face only a little bit lower.
Again, I am not sure where we got off track, because there is nothing you say above that I disagree with.
Surfref
PREMIER
That can be the problem with the written word sometimes. I evidently interpreted the meaning differently than how you intended. It may partially be because I had my fill of seeing referee's being treated poorly and parents behaving like children this past weekend. From the Surf dad that saw the need to run behind the female AR to make sure she got the offside call correct. The AR actually had to take her attention off the game and tell him to stop. To the Surf dad who called the CR "f@#king piece of shit" then when the AR told him that language was inappropriate the dad told her (AR) she was "a piece of shit." It was heard by most of the players. The Legends parents that thought it was okay to tell the refs, including ones that had nothing to do with the game, that they sucked and flip them off. The Surf parents that thought it was okay to make derogatory comments to the other team's players. I should not have had to tell adults not to make derogatory comments to kids. The NorCal team parents that told the parents of the opposing team to "shut the f$&k up" when they were cheering after what would end up being the winning goal. I saw a lot of bad behavior toward the refs and players.
Frank
GOLD
So just another weekend.......
texanincali
SILVER ELITE
No issues - you give perfect examples above, even though they might not necessarily be on the field issues.
My question is - what was done in each of these circumstances? What I am calling for is for more referees to immediately dismiss parents in ALL of the situations above and refuse to restart the game until they are out of sight. When I speak about referees have control of the match (off field and on field), it is these type of circumstances that will continue to happen until referees stand up for themselves - I don't care if they have to dismiss the entire sideline. When word spreads about referee's that are willing to take those steps, things will start to change. I believe the same for on field issues.
Can you shed any light on the time and effort it takes to properly file paperwork when a parent, coach or player is dismissed? Could that be one of the reasons we don't see it more often?
Thanks again for being a referee.