Do you yellow card them when they start to get out of hand? Pushing girls onto the ground when they aren't near the ball, kicking them in the back of legs to knock them down? Elbows to the face?
Two girls fighting what is everyone's responsibility?
- Thread starter socalkdg
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coachrefparent
GOLD
Of course referees have a responsibility to manage the game, and try to keep things cool using the limited tools that they have. Its stupid to suggest, however, that fights and violent play is usually caused by the referee.
If the referee cannot stop the fight with the whistle, the next best thing is the coaches. Almost every big melee results from one thing: parents that enter the field.
In most of these situations, there are common symptoms: parents and coaches that put up with dirty play by their kids and players; the thug mentality passed down by parents who are no strangers to fights themselves; general low-class behavior, and people whose self-worth is wound up in whether Ricardo or Katelyn win their game.
If the referee cannot stop the fight with the whistle, the next best thing is the coaches. Almost every big melee results from one thing: parents that enter the field.
In most of these situations, there are common symptoms: parents and coaches that put up with dirty play by their kids and players; the thug mentality passed down by parents who are no strangers to fights themselves; general low-class behavior, and people whose self-worth is wound up in whether Ricardo or Katelyn win their game.
The Driver
PREMIER
Ref>Coach>parent
Plain and simple google it lol
Plain and simple google it lol
baldref
GOLD
do i personally? a yellow card is one tool that can be used to control behavior in a game. with younger players, most of the time some stern language and the fact that you let them know you're watching is going to be enough..... for me that is. I'm a large old man, sort of intimidating without trying. if that doesn't get their attention, than yes, a card can be effective, but not always. i don't do many youngers anymore, because i have enough experience to do the older games, and that's where the experienced referees are needed more.
baldref
GOLD
that's a good question. depends on the circumstances. but i have learned over the years, even well intention-ed touching of a player can be a bad thing.
The Driver
PREMIER
with all due respect. Don't call u Littles thugs
texanincali
SILVER ELITE
First of all, thank you for being a referee - I realize that it can be a thankless job much of the time, but there are those of us that do realize the game at the youth level can't survive without you.
I will try to do my best not to offend you - but my opinion on this discussion is pretty solid and I can't see anyone being able to sway me to the other side.
I am a firm believer that the referee and the referee alone is responsible for the way in which a match is played. Yes, I realize that managers, players and parents all play a role, but in the end, the referee has all the power to change a match before it gets out of hand. Now, there might need to be a conversation about whether or not many referees can recognize a game getting out of hand, especially if they have never played, but lets's leave that conversation for another day.
If you don't mind - I have a few questions. I would really appreciate it if you could shed some light on your thoughts.
1) Do you call a U11 game any differently than you do a U17 game? If so, how?
2) Do you use the same criteria for a caution and a sending off in the younger age groups as you do the older age groups?
3) How often do you find yourself bringing both captains in for a quick chat when you see a match moving the wrong direction? What about your fellow referees?
4) How many times do you bring both coaches together for a quick chat when you see a match moving the wrong direction?
Hopefully, I can better understand where a ref is coming from based on your response.
Sounds like you have a problem with the laws then. It's why we have the rules. They say what can and can't happen on the pitch. And we aren't talking about little de minimis violations, or violations to which advantage isn't put, or acts which aren't careless, reckless or use excessive force. It's your job to enforce the rules, not rewrite them. And no one is blaming the refs for the misconduct. We blame the refs for losing control of the game.
Eagle33
PREMIER
I think that u-littles need experienced referees more than u-olders. How is inexperienced referee suppose to control sideline behavior of parents who have no clue about LOTG or coaches out of control? I've seen a lot more problems at u-little games lately because of inexperienced referees. They are trying but just don't know how to deal with all of it yet.
On the other hand there are plenty of experienced refs who is way past keeping up with older games, but still doing it simply because of better pay. Assignors should do a better job recognizing who should be doing which games and we would have less issues at either games.
baldref
GOLD
sure. how about ""undisciplined misbehaving violent delinquents"?
kidding kind of...... my intent is to say that there are players, even little girls, who have been taught not to respect other players, and that a elbow to the ribs or kick in the calf, is something to be proud of.
The Driver
PREMIER
They call some refs fat slobs who don't leave the circle
baldref
GOLD
i disagree with you.
If you don't mind - I have a few questions. I would really appreciate it if you could shed some light on your thoughts.
1) Do you call a U11 game any differently than you do a U17 game? If so, how? yes. they are different so they need to be officiated different. too many differences to list.
2) Do you use the same criteria for a caution and a sending off in the younger age groups as you do the older age groups? yes, and no. depends on what type of caution you're talking about.
3) How often do you find yourself bringing both captains in for a quick chat when you see a match moving the wrong direction? What about your fellow referees? used to be more common. now, the captain is more of a figure head on a team that calls the coin toss, and not the true leader of the team.
4) How many times do you bring both coaches together for a quick chat when you see a match moving the wrong direction? never. coaches either get it or they don't. if they get it, they don't need me to tell them to reel in their players. if they don't get it, they won't listen anyway.
If I'm mistaken, I apologize in advance but this sounds a little bit classist. I can tell you my DYS's team has played against poor largely Latino teams from the barrio and white/Asian teams from rich neighborhoods. Never had any problem with the Latino or poor teams...they were the most brilliant of the passers and played true possession soccer. The team my DYS had an issue with was a largely white, uppermiddle class team from a swanky neighborhood. Winning at any cost is a mentality that can happen in either poor or rich neighborhoods.
baldref
GOLD
yes. i guess you would.
The Driver
PREMIER
baldref
GOLD
this may be true in a way. there just aren't enough. i would also like to see some of the guys who have lost a lot of steps, go back down and do the younger games. they can't keep up with the olders, and they have the chops to deal with many of the issues we are discussing
texanincali
SILVER ELITE
Thank you for your response in the previous post - much appreciated.
Seeing as you disagree, I am curious as to why that is. You actually bring up perfect examples in the post above. When you have witnessed an elbow to the ribs (deliberate) or a kick to the calf (deliberate) in "little girls" soccer, did you send the off straight away? If not, what did you do?
baldref
GOLD
if i see an act deserving a send off in any age game, i send off the player. my disagreement is in your blaming the referee for that act to begin with. or saying that if i don't call a push then the game is out of control and i caused the fight. the players actions are dealt with accordingly, after they happen. can calling a tight game keep things from happening? maybe, maybe not. that's up to the players, who are taught by coaches and parents on how to behave, not only in a game of soccer, but as a person in society.
The Driver
PREMIER
Baldref you need to take back that Thug reference
texanincali
SILVER ELITE
I get where you are coming from - and honestly, I may have not communicated properly. I don't necessarily disagree with you.
I don't blame a referee for missing calls, that is part and parcel to the game. What I do blame referees for is not adhering to the laws of the game. Let's put aside kids younger than U10 - very, very rarely do I ever see a kid sent off and I rarely even see cautions in the U11, U12, U13 age groups - although to be fair, they are happening more often as of late.
What I do see are referees that don't hand out the proper punishment (send off, caution) because...well, they are only young kids. Reckless and dangerous tackles happen numerous times in competitive U11-U13 games, way too much for my liking. Most of the time they are dealt with by calling a foul, but in my opinion just calling a foul is not enough.
I truly believe that if the laws of the game were followed more from the first year of select through U13-U14, we would not only see more free flowing games by the time kids reach U15, but we would have better players that would actually have to learn how to defend instead of just chopping opponents down.
I guess in short - a sending off is a sending off, whether it is U11 or U19, a caution is a caution whether U11 or U19 - but very rarely do I see them called the same way. For me, that is the issue.