Ps kickings scenario presumes a world where we do care about a level playing field. The super tall 13 year old boy is separated from my sons friend. Where we actually care about a meritocracy and a level playing field and the kid that works most and is most skilled moves up. He himself has said it’s not a realistic scenario. Just a thought experiment. But that’s not the balanced world we live in with youth sports. We live in a world with arbitrary age lines drawn in the sand.
Trans eligibility rules for girls sports.
- Thread starter dad4
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The reason there is that physical advantage is because of testosterone. On the youth level is simple…we don’t care about the cheaters using testosterone to get an edge to sus them out. I agree life is not fair which is why I object if you don’t care about the cheaters singling out the trans kids. Aren’t the cheaters after all doing something which is morally wrong? The trans kids aren’t: they are just trying to cope with a bad hand they’ve been deal.
On college where we do test the question is different: is there a way to balance it (through blockers or surgery or hormones) so the mtf bell curve to bell curve no longer has a substantial advantage. You are assuming the answer is no. For some sports that may be true. But you haven’t presented that data which must be done on a sport by sport intervention by intervention basis. And if not, you must create a separate league with separate scholarship funding. Because as you point out the separate men’s and women’s divisions aren’t about meritocracy and finding the best of the best or we’d be living starship troopers. It’s about participation, to which the trans are equally entitled.
Second interpretation. Tribalism.
If I ask whether girl goal keepers can be included in GK training, your answer is "No. My son is a GK. Female GKs can't keep up. Adding weak players to GK training would harm the tribe."
If I ask whether mtf athletes can play in girls leagues, your answer is "I personally identify as queer. Trans girls are members of my tribe. Tribal members should get to play wherever they want"
It has nothing at all to do with logic or facts. You're just reflexively protecting your identity groups.
Say hi to your twin, EOTL.
Ps the question that shouldn’t be asked is what would Lebron do if he put on a wig and played in the wnba. That’s a stupid question. There are other questions that have to be asked. What if Lebron is on testosterone blockers? Testosterone blockers and hormones? Any difference if went on them pre puberty? Any difference if on a muscle reducer? Any difference if surgery? Any difference 1, 2, 3 years post surgery? Any difference if he has surgery at 18? 16? What if it’s not Lebron and we conclude we can’t balance LeBron but we can Steve Kerr? What if it’s not Steve Kerr but an already slender boy that has avoided athletic activity to not seem obvious to dad 4 and didn’t get drafted? What if it’s not basketball but track? What if it’s not track but soccer where instead of 1 of 5 they are 1 of 11? What if it’s not soccer but horseback riding? Lebron is the best of the men so naturally Lebron is the best of the women but how many points is too much…200? 40? 20? 10? 2? Where is the line so reduction for the sport no longer provides substantial advantage? It’s not an easy question which is why it’s taking so long and why mistakes like Leah will be made
Now that’s bad faith on your part. It always ends that way with you when you are cornered. In situations where we test I’ve said specifically the science may show for some sports you can’t balance. That’s not “play wherever they want”. You do have to furnish them a place to play which is level but it may not be in the female division (the difference with youth again is we don’t care about balance because we don’t care about the cheaters). I’ve even been open to saying the strictest standards for the Olympics and national teams should be in place and that may mean Mtfs need to be banned on those levels. All those go against the position of “my tribe”. My tribe (to the extent there is one…see below) would consider me an apostate for not taking the leftist maximalist position that gender is merely a social construct.
you see thats because I do logic and reasoning. I go where the data leads me. As with Covid, it led me to a position of “it’s not the flu” and to go against the “ let’s not worriers…let’s play on at mic” but then when the data was clear early on to oppose the craziness of your camp. Here it’s led me to a fairly centrist place where I disagree with both those on the extreme left and right on the issue (I can’t help it Etol chose to be reasonable and didn’t take the extreme position…he certainly shocked me). What you do is dogma so you assume everyone must do it too. You are in the business of religion, but in your case you disgustingly always mask it with the veneer of science. It’s old timey progressivism and I despise old times progressivism. Their belief system is both hypocritical and horrible. It is a way of looking at things that has unleashed untold damage upon the world.
ps it’s stunningly biased on your part to lump us in all together as some unitary monolith. If you saw the film “bros” you’d see we don’t always agree. I’ll add that to your growing list of horribles
Happened again
SILVER ELITE
did you even look at the post I was responding to? has there been development in medicine that can adjust tendon/muscle/skeletal relationship? If there is I'm way off of my game.
Plenty of data out there that show that while LBM levels decrease in trans women as a result of hormone therapy, yet remains higher than women....even after 36 months of treatment. So there's that. I just love it when "people" talk about hormone therapy without realizing how potentially bad it's for your body. Some of it is reversible, some of it isn't.
Again you are invited to present sport by sport intervention by intervention. Look forward to it. The reason you can’t is because that work isn’t done. Also it doesn’t have to be identical only close enough and what close enough is is being studied as well. I’ve said for some sports a balance may not be possible (or so restricted only a handful of mtfs are allowed to compete so separate divisions needed anyways)
More news from the White Boomer, lol! Last week on TS I was called a feminist, a nag, a woman and the son of the devil from hard core Christian Nationalist. These dudes are gnarly. They think I am a woman because I told the men it's ok to clean the house and wash the dishes. They think I'm a woman for how I write, crazy right?
www.foxnews.com
The player, who one coach said "hits the ball harder than any other I have seen in the league," reportedly has accidentally injured people, including an umpire and another player who was unable to play for months after the incident.
Parents demand answers after transgender woman plays cricket against girls as young as 12: 'Unacceptable'
Multiple parents and coaches have expressed concern that allowing a middle-aged biological male to play cricket against girls as young as 12 is dangerous and inappropriate.
www.foxnews.com
The player, who one coach said "hits the ball harder than any other I have seen in the league," reportedly has accidentally injured people, including an umpire and another player who was unable to play for months after the incident.
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Soccer Dad & Ref
SILVER ELITE
More news from the White Boomer, lol! Last week on TS I was called a feminist, a nag, a woman and the son of the devil from hard core Christian Nationalist. These dudes are gnarly. They think I am a woman because I told the men it's ok to clean the house and wash the dishes. They think I'm a woman for how I write, crazy right?
Parents demand answers after transgender woman plays cricket against girls as young as 12: 'Unacceptable'
Multiple parents and coaches have expressed concern that allowing a middle-aged biological male to play cricket against girls as young as 12 is dangerous and inappropriate.
The player, who one coach said "hits the ball harder than any other I have seen in the league," reportedly has accidentally injured people, including an umpire and another player who was unable to play for months after the incident.
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you’re a kook too
WTF does that friggin link have anything to do with this thread? Crawl back to your hole, nutter.
Wait isn’t the takeaway here that an adult is playing with 12 year olds? The entire trans thing is a canard here. You’d have the very same issue with 12 year old boys
my sons first team ended their season with a parents v 10 year old boys game. I knew from the get go it was a horrible idea (maybe 16 year olds could do it). I gave my son the express instruction do not 1v1; do not try to save anything that isn’t shot directly at you. The stupid dads all played to win running up the score 21-0. On one corner that was right in his zone to catch a dad bodied him off the ball into the goal. One kid ended up with a broken arm; another with a sprained ankle. My father as the team doctor was busier that game than anything that had happened in league. Afterwards the dads were yelling at the boys “in your face”. Men can be so dumb but even the moms playing yelled at me for taking it easy on them and letting one in.
If you want to be treated as a logical creature, you can't pick and choose your facts based on what helps your argument.
Girls are either slower and weaker than boys, or they aren't. They aren't slow and weak when they go to GK training on Wednesday, almost equally strong when playing against a mtf athlete on Saturday, and then weak again at goalie training the following Wednesday.
kickingandscreaming
PREMIER
Whatever it is, it's not a good look for those who support transgender girls in girls' sports. It happened. It may not be as bad for the cause as having EOTL as a spokesperson, but it's still harmful. It doesn't present trans folks in a particularly flattering light - in this case much more of a victimizer than a victim. It ruins the narrative. Of course, I'm sure EOTL will consider this a success. "Playing girls sports worked! She made it to middle age without killing herself and hasn't raped any of your daughters in the bathroom - as far as I know. And all because she was allowed to play on a girls team you transphobic pos!" <cue EOTL-lite>
It’s disappointing that for someone so well versed in mathematics your thinking is one dimensional. One redeeming quality you’ve always had on the Covid stuff is that at least you were thoughtful. So much for nuance
again what part do you not understand that weakness or strength on the youth level doesn’t matter? It doesn’t matter for fairness because we don’t enforce a level playing field. It doesn’t matter for safety because we don’t sort kids based on safety concerns. You said it yourself: what matters is the hair bow, not the training. They arent Soccer robots
Agree. Though in fairness the opposed does have dad4 on its side who as I recall eotl raves about during Covid
Here’s the difference: we expect the behavior from a troll like eotl. Dad4 as an educator and whose kids have trans friends ought to know better. Can you imagine those kids going over to his house (assuming he even allows them inside the house) or his classroom and they don’t realize what’s going on in his head and what he really thinks of them?Ps “creature”? Really? I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you chose your words poorly but skirting the line there with out and out bigotry. I’d gracefully accept an explanation you chose your words poorly.
The actual insult was calling you tribalist. But it is accurate, so I stand by it.
I have no idea why you choose to treat queer as an insult. It isn’t one.
I also have no idea why you think that knowing trans people means I will automatically agree that transgender athletes can join whatever sports league they please. Yes, I do know several transgender people. But their concerns are more practical than yours. They care about things like the existence of single stall bathrooms, the fact that inversion lowers your life expectancy, what a racy tattoo will look like after top surgery, or how impossibly many appointments it takes to get rid of a beard. Forcing their way into a women’s sports league is not the kind of thing they would do.
Home School business is growing like crazy. Listen to this guy.
I never questioned the the use of the word queer. It raised an eyebrow since the word depends on how it’s used and depending on intent can be used as a slur. As written above the word I questioned was “creature” (it’s in black and white man) which is a word that’s been used in the past to dehumanize the lgbtq community
at this point there are only too possible conclusions. One you have a mental condition akin to dyslexia that does severely impairs your reading comprehension. Perhaps that’s why you are so touchy when your reading comprehension issues are pointed out? Perhaps that’s also why it takes you quite a while to get a point and you tend to go around in circles. It would make sense therefore you took refuge in mathematics. Some of those conditions are accompanied by anxiety conditions which would explain your Covid panic. If so I’m sorry, you have my extreme sympathy for your disability, and I would try to be more courteous with you and your disability than you’ve shown to the trans kids. You see my issue isn’t with your position on the issue (kicking and wooble for example hold similar views but have never said anything questionably bigoted and others may make ignorant but well intentioned comments). My issue has been some things you’ve said which are just clearly bigoted such as the all trans are obvious remark, the creature, mansplaining gayness to a gay person or now making assumptions about what all trans people want. A disability would explain all that in which case I’m sorry and you have my sympathy.
the other possibility is you totally know what you are doing throwing a words like creature and avoiding an explanation like you did just now. It would make use of the word queer questionable as well. You are a blatant bigot but don’t want to go all out because it would shadow the virtuous image you cultivate such as on this and Covid but you want to throw around your bigotry so you step right up to the line. In which case you are a horrible human being, among the worst of the worst, far worse than anything eotl had don’t around here, particularly after the entire authoritarian thing
so which is it?
Happened again
SILVER ELITE
Of course the work isn't done..and it will never be done. Who is going to do the research? Who will fund the research required? This thread has bobbed and weaved it's way into the ridiculous. Thanks for the invite though. At last check, biology is a thing.
Actually a girl is slower and weaker than they would have been if born a boy. That does not mean the girl is slower and weaker "than boys". The problem you keep having is that you're paranoid that elite male athletes will "go trans", when the reality is that there has never been a trans girl in history who has been meaningfully stronger or faster than her teammates, or otherwise dominated girls elite soccer. Sure, they will be better than your daughter who is a terrible soccer player, but so are most biological girls.
It is comical that people like you spent so much time telling people that youth sports "isn't about winning and losing", but that youth sports "is about development" and making children "mentally tough", but now you pretend that winning and losing is the only about winning and losing at the kiddie level and that you need to protect your emotionally feeble child from even the slightest amount of perceived adversity? The truth is there will never be a trans girl who deprives your daughter of a trophy. She will fail to win trophies because she just isn't good enough.
You are absolutely the wrong person to be cis-splaining what trans people want. Maybe go back to mansplaining about how people who aren't currently playing in ECNL should not opine on who should and shouldn't play in ECNL - other than yourself of course.