Trans eligibility rules for girls sports.

The process that arrived at the "treatment" described in the article has much broader implications. It represents a tragic failure of any reasonable scientific process to validate the treatment - a treatment that is, by any measure, extreme and can cause irreversible damage. It reminded me of the Frontline documentary "Prisoners of Silence" (1993).

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Facilitated communication (FC) has been heralded as a breakthrough technique for nonverbal people with autism. The method uses a helper to control the involuntary movements of an autistic person’s hand, allowing that person to type his or her thoughts on a keyboard. Thousands of people have begun using FC, often to communicate major life decisions like the desire to go to college or to move to a new home. But many scientists reject FC as simply not real and believe that it is the facilitator who is unknowingly controlling the hand of the autistic individual. FRONTLINE presents a comprehensive investigation of this controversial technique, interviewing the leaders of the FC movement, scientists, facilitators, and parents of autistic children and raises tough questions about the implications of its use for people with autism and their families.
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Quick Summary: The facilitated communication was easily debunked with a simple double-blind test. Not a big deal if done early. However, Syracuse University started a Facilitated Communication Institute (now known as the Institute of Communication and Inclusion). Also, a father was put in jail on charges of sexual abuse of his autistic child based on the child's "testimony" through a facilitator. The documentary indicated the father was not supportive of the therapy and didn't believe it was useful. The facilitator made sure to extract a pound of flesh for his offense.

Interestingly, I found an article from the Atlantic (July 2016 - link follows) when I searched for the "Prisoners of Silence". It discusses and shows a video Apple showed in April 2016 as part of Autism Awareness Month. The autistic child was on an iPad application that allowed him to communicate ... with the assistance of a "communication partner". WTF? It's informative to read. They include an interview with the individual who provided the testimony in 1993 that wrongly put the father in jail, and she discusses her thought process at the time. It gives insight into how the human mind "works" when it wants so badly to help. It comes from a good place. She wasn't an evil person, but the results were evil. I can't help but think those promoting gender-affirming surgery for minors suffer from the same human condition as the facilitator. I believe it is a human condition, and none of us are immune to it. In high-leverage situations, this condition can have irreversible, catastrophic outcomes on the lives of innocent people. In the case of gender-affirming surgery on minors, it's our children. There's a good reason that the saying, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions", has been around for so long.

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After the allegations were found unproven, and the case dismissed, Boynton was confronted with what she had communicated to authorities. “When I saw some of the stuff I wrote [alleging sexual abuse by the student’s father],” during the student’s interview with investigators, “I didn’t even realize what I’d written at the time,” Boyton said, describing the communication she had facilitated for the student. She now believes that FC is a self-fulfilling prophecy, a rationalization to resolve any cognitive dissonance such as what she experienced when participating in the police interrogation. “You don’t remember, you’re disconnected,” said Boynton as she described her thoughts during the investigative interview—an experience that she said draws parallels with the psychological concept of dissociation.

None of the training or materials Boynton had received in her FC certification course discussed the danger of how the facilitator’s goals or desires could influence the process. “There was an expectation to not doubt the authenticity of the person’s voice,” she said. “We were taught these individuals were so oppressed that we weren’t supposed to doubt their communication; if we doubted FC, we’re doubting the person.”

The expectation of validity, combined with the facilitator’s desire to do good, may be the secret to FC’s longevity, and illustrates the danger it poses. This psychological construction—Boynton likened it to an author creating a dialogue between characters or imagining a conversation with someone you know well—can have disastrous consequences, not just for the nonverbal individual’s own voice, but also for the people around them
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The additional complication is treatment is frought with trolley problems.

Hypothetical: Let's assume there are 10 kids and treatment would make 5 of them more contented and 5 of them equally uncontented? Is it ethical?

Let's assume 10 kids, and 1 of them would be contented but 9 of them remain the same. Any different?

This time 10 kids, and 1 will be very unhappy more so if you did nothing, but 9 of them will be perfectly contented. Different?

Again 10 kids, 3 of them contented, 7 of them remain equally uncontented, but if you don't treat the 3 kids until they are adults, 2 of them will be even more unhappy because to dad 4 they are "obvious" but they could have been contented.

This time 10 kids, 3 of them contented (but only 1 unless you hit it early), and 3 will wind up even more disturbed because they regret the treatment? What if suicidal? The other 4 no impact.

10 kids, what if 5 could be perfectly contented (but you have to hit 3 of them early), and 5 will be even more miserable.

10 kids, 5 could be perfectly contented, but 2 will be suicidal if you hit them early, and 3 will just be no impact no mater what you do

10 kids, 3 are contented (1 will always be supercontented, but 2 will be suicidal unless you hit them early), 4 exhibit no change, 1 will be suicidal if you do anything to them, and 2 of them will regret it and be slightly worse.
 
A lot of the examples I just listed I've actually lived through. I wrote an article for a soccer magazine that was widely read. "wake up early to play some basketball" did not work....it's a misnomer to think that all ADHD is hyperactive....my kids was anxious distracted while I'm hyperfocused obsessive.

I disagree it's hugely overdiagnosed. It's actually hugely underdiagnosed. The issue which is coming to be revealed over the last several years is that, like autism, it's a spectrum, and like autism, it manifests itself in various different ways. Some people can cope. Some people are hugely debilitated. It's less so much a "disorder" (see that word also associated with trans) but a different way of the brain to be, much like crush has pointed out (and again parallels with trans).

I agree medication should be a last resort, not a first. And my favorite "how dare you" example BTW is the 14 year old declaring he wants to go to Annapolis to pursue a career as a naval aviator and finding out he can't because he's been on ADHD meds.
ADHD is 100% attack on humans who are ADHD. I know a mama bear that was freaking out because her little Jonny would not stop throwing rocks. I mean the kid would not stop. He was obsessed with rock throwing and he caused damage. She keep saying, "stop it. Stop throwing rocks." He also threw fits of rages and was super out of control. She took him the Doc and he prescribed him poison pills to calm the little guy down. I got with her later after her son became comatose and just stayed at his computer all day. I told her, "let the kid throw rocks." "What? Are you crazy." I came back with, "No I am not, you are mama bear. Your the one who needs help" I told her. I said, "Listen, take the kid to place where he can throw the rocks safely." Ding ding, light went on and the kid is doing great today with a wife and two little ones. Their drugging our kids and they get them at the schools.
 
ADHD is 100% attack on humans who are ADHD. I know a mama bear that was freaking out because her little Jonny would not stop throwing rocks. I mean the kid would not stop. He was obsessed with rock throwing and he caused damage. She keep saying, "stop it. Stop throwing rocks." He also threw fits of rages and was super out of control. She took him the Doc and he prescribed him poison pills to calm the little guy down. I got with her later after her son became comatose and just stayed at his computer all day. I told her, "let the kid throw rocks." "What? Are you crazy." I came back with, "No I am not, you are mama bear. Your the one who needs help" I told her. I said, "Listen, take the kid to place where he can throw the rocks safely." Ding ding, light went on and the kid is doing great today with a wife and two little ones. Their drugging our kids and they get them at the schools.
Was he ever stupid enough to throw a rock at a car? Would you feel the same if the rock throwing was at a car?

Did she rush out and pay the damages to the various cars? Some innocent person suddenly finds their windshield shattered and having to go to the hospital for stiches? Any difference once the bill gets around 10K?

Any different if the kid couldn't control when he could or couldn't throw the rocks so the only solution was to constantly have rock throwing available? The kid would always have to be monitored walking home to make sure he didn't throw a rock at a car?

What if the kid killed someone?

What if the person killed was your child aged DD on the way to a soccer game?

 
Puberty blockers are banned in most European countries. Here is a big reason why.

“There was no difference in youth suicide rates between these different kinds of states prior to 2010, when clinics began to open across the U.S. to prescribe puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones. After 2010, however, the youth suicide rate spiked in states that lacked the parental consent barrier, resulting in a 14 percent increase in suicide rates in those states relative to states that required parental consent.”

Read more here on where the UK stands. (They have it right)

 
Was he ever stupid enough to throw a rock at a car? Would you feel the same if the rock throwing was at a car?

Did she rush out and pay the damages to the various cars? Some innocent person suddenly finds their windshield shattered and having to go to the hospital for stiches? Any difference once the bill gets around 10K?

Any different if the kid couldn't control when he could or couldn't throw the rocks so the only solution was to constantly have rock throwing available? The kid would always have to be monitored walking home to make sure he didn't throw a rock at a car?

What if the kid killed someone?

What if the person killed was your child aged DD on the way to a soccer game?

No throw at cars, the kid broke a neighbors window. Neighbor was pissed off though and went off on the single mom whose hubby bailed on her for another lady at work. She was all alone and now the neighbor thinks she's a bad mom so mom panics and takes the rock thrower to the doc and doc gives the kid enough dope to make him STFU, obey his mommy, sit still and play on his machine all day. Porn Hub is destring our youth and the dads who watch this crap. Anyway, No causalities to report. You can still throw rocks Grace, just not at cars or windows. I like to skip rocks in the ocean. Come down to Dana Point ((hopefully demons are not driving around looking to kill doctors riding their bike)), I know a great beach with so many rocks to throw back to the ocean.
 
Puberty blockers are banned in most European countries. Here is a big reason why.

“There was no difference in youth suicide rates between these different kinds of states prior to 2010, when clinics began to open across the U.S. to prescribe puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones. After 2010, however, the youth suicide rate spiked in states that lacked the parental consent barrier, resulting in a 14 percent increase in suicide rates in those states relative to states that required parental consent.”

Read more here on where the UK stands. (They have it right)

The UK is as much of a mess on the issue as we are. In the last 2 years:
-The UK government has moved to ban all FTMs from the women's division (but only on the elite/collegiate levels) even those that undertook treatment before puberty, but affirmed the right to participate in non competitive sports (which form them in youth soccer includes anything under the academy level), and has required the creation of alternative divisions, where feasible (they don't do athletic scholarships in England the way we do). Not sure many of you will like that.
-Scotland has moved to issue gender change certificates with a similar loose manner to California, which is being fought on the federal level.
-The conservative government has moved to restrict so-called "gender affirming care" to minors but the labour government has talked about making it more accessible when they take power
-The conservative government has moved to ban any sort of conversion therapy to make these people comfortable in their born gender.
 
My 6th grade teacher figured me out early on Dad. I got extra play time to run off my adrenaline. "crush, go take your run around the playground and be back in 10 minutes." It worked all year and I was good little boy. I was "high" all day and could not sit still all day in prison chair. I hated most of it except the sports and my good pals I made.

And of course there is the great happy ending to your story in which you grew up to be a very productive member of society. When was the last time you had a job btw? How much have you bilked the State of California in unemployment and state disability benefits?
 
And of course there is the great happy ending to your story in which you grew up to be a very productive member of society. When was the last time you had a job btw? How much have you bilked the State of California in unemployment and state disability benefits?

Just a guess here, but probably 1% or less of what every illegal migrant does. Also probably less than what it costs taxpayers to remove the breasts of a 14 year old.
 
Some people are walking around with ADHD complaining about constantly losing their car keys, anxious, and not being able to get on task, and don't realize they have ADHD.
These are exactly my symptoms. I took and ADHD test about 10 years ago and smoked the test. Turns out I'm just absent minded and and an occasional procrastinator.
 
Just a guess here, but probably 1% or less of what every illegal migrant does. Also probably less than what it costs taxpayers to remove the breasts of a 14 year old.

Actually, breast removal would be covered by private insurance to the extent it would be covered at all, not by taxpayers. Also keep in mind that you're the one who wanted to spend a gazillion dollars on a useless wall.
 
The additional complication is treatment is frought with trolley problems.

Hypothetical: Let's assume there are 10 kids and treatment would make 5 of them more contented and 5 of them equally uncontented? Is it ethical?

Let's assume 10 kids, and 1 of them would be contented but 9 of them remain the same. Any different?

This time 10 kids, and 1 will be very unhappy more so if you did nothing, but 9 of them will be perfectly contented. Different?

Again 10 kids, 3 of them contented, 7 of them remain equally uncontented, but if you don't treat the 3 kids until they are adults, 2 of them will be even more unhappy because to dad 4 they are "obvious" but they could have been contented.

This time 10 kids, 3 of them contented (but only 1 unless you hit it early), and 3 will wind up even more disturbed because they regret the treatment? What if suicidal? The other 4 no impact.

10 kids, what if 5 could be perfectly contented (but you have to hit 3 of them early), and 5 will be even more miserable.

10 kids, 5 could be perfectly contented, but 2 will be suicidal if you hit them early, and 3 will just be no impact no mater what you do

10 kids, 3 are contented (1 will always be supercontented, but 2 will be suicidal unless you hit them early), 4 exhibit no change, 1 will be suicidal if you do anything to them, and 2 of them will regret it and be slightly worse.


Stop Gaslighting.

Accept the TRUTH.
 
This are exactly my symptoms. I took and ADHD test about 10 years ago and smoked the test. Turns out I'm just absent minded and have a lot going on.
The clinical distinction is whether you can bring yourself to focus when tested. There’s now a computer test they do and a brain scan.
Actually, breast removal would be covered by private insurance to the extent it would be covered at all, not by taxpayers. Also keep in mind that you're the one who wanted to spend a gazillion dollars on a useless wall.
Caveat: certain Medicaid programs in certain blue states cover it, Medicare but the test is pretty rigorous, some government insurance like San Francisco city workers.
 
The clinical distinction is whether you can bring yourself to focus when tested. There’s now a computer test they do and a brain scan.

Caveat: certain Medicaid programs in certain blue states cover it, Medicare but the test is pretty rigorous, some government insurance like San Francisco city workers.

I am not saying that Medicaid would not cover some gender affirming care, but please show me where Medicaid paid for breast surgery in a minor.
 
The UK is as much of a mess on the issue as we are. In the last 2 years:
-The UK government has moved to ban all FTMs from the women's division (but only on the elite/collegiate levels) even those that undertook treatment before puberty, but affirmed the right to participate in non competitive sports (which form them in youth soccer includes anything under the academy level), and has required the creation of alternative divisions, where feasible (they don't do athletic scholarships in England the way we do). Not sure many of you will like that.
Ban for collegiate and elite, allowed in lower levels, and create alternate leagues when possible?

Sounds about right. Wish we could get to a similar spot.
 
Ban for collegiate and elite, allowed in lower levels, and create alternate leagues when possible?

Sounds about right. Wish we could get to a similar spot.
People here will howl when they lose their scholarships and it force you to give up on your ECNL fight (barring the creation of a true girls academy league).

I'm really curious if the girls 8 v 8 football begins to take off. I think it's great but it will give us a preview of the howling from soccer parents as the soccer scholarships have some of the biggest targets on them due to numbers.
 
Because it's on a spectrum, underdiagnosed, not over. Some people are walking around with ADHD complaining about constantly losing their car keys, anxious, and not being able to get on task, and don't realize they have ADHD. It's also more diagnosable in boys because of the hyperactive types, whereas girls (and they've looked at this...there's no physiological brain reason for it to be less prevalent in girls than boys) it goes hidden longer. Where the laziness comes in is that medicine has come to regard pills as a panacea so they rush to it, but it's also the case that nothing else is really effective either other than just it grows less with age.

As to blasting the u little with psycho active stimulant, like the trans issue, there is no good solution. In some cases, that means you accept an inability to perform in school and sports, along the with resulting consequences. Like a trans persons biological sex, unfortunately there is no way to change their brain.
Way too much nuance involved with ADHD to cover in a soccer forum full of soccer parents. ADHD is misdiagnosed, overdiagnosed, misunderstood....Practioners are: overworked, undertrained, lazy, owned by big pharma...parents are just trying to get through the day. End result? Many children given medication because of a way tooooo early diagnosis of ADHD. And yes, spectrum disorders require specialized and experienced care.
 
Way too much nuance involved with ADHD to cover in a soccer forum full of soccer parents. ADHD is misdiagnosed, overdiagnosed, misunderstood....Practioners are: overworked, undertrained, lazy, owned by big pharma...parents are just trying to get through the day. End result? Many children given medication because of a way tooooo early diagnosis of ADHD. And yes, spectrum disorders require specialized and experienced care.
Take the kids outside to learn. Look at our beautiful children and what these monsters are doing to them.
 
As to blasting the u little with psycho active stimulant, like the trans issue, there is no good solution. In
There are great solutions. The issue is: lack of experience, lack of patience, lack of professionalism. For some, practicing medicine consists of following the prompts on your screen that eventually lead to the "correct" rx.
 
There are great solutions. The issue is: lack of experience, lack of patience, lack of professionalism. For some, practicing medicine consists of following the prompts on your screen that eventually lead to the "correct" rx.
Been through it. There are no great solutions. Not even ones requiring extensive work. Nothing “works”: not even the medication which is a bandaid. The only great solution is reworking school, sports expectations and societal demands which isn’t going to happen. Any more than someone is going the invent a magic unicorn wand that turns the bodies of men with girl brains into women’s bodies.
 
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