Trans eligibility rules for girls sports.

[MARsSPEED]

Here is the deal buddy. You actually made a number of points early on in this thread that I disagree with but which you were mostly able to hold it together by presenting your opinion in a non-offensive manner (posts 239, 271, 276). That said, you probably mocked gender pronouns in post 242, you called Brittney Griner a man in post 268, and you accused trans children of being selfish in 276, which was pretty fucked up. But I let all of that go because you at least tried to present most of your arguments mostly non-offensively, and you didn't do or say anything wildly transphobic at first. It was only after you personally attacked me in post 649 and 650 because you couldn't handle that I went down the rabbit hole on religion with someone who had clearly and unambiguously made it clear that they're transphobic. Even then, I didn't tee up on you since I know how people get when they're trying to hide that religion is dictating their hatred of trans people. No, I only came after you after it was only after you joined the meme party and started posting tweets of adult, fringe trans people whom you hate to support the bs argument that trans children should not be allowed to participate in youth sports because that would force children to share a locker room with people who you classify as "freaks", especially when you add that to your disgusting comment about Griner and your not remotely funny comment about gender pronouns.

The problem here isn't that I can't have an adult conversation. I have been respectful in those incredibly rare situations in which people have been able to make their arguments free of intentionally offensive commentary, and you actually had a chance. But the transphobic crowd keeps proving that they (including you) ultimately can't help yourselves, so you get what you deserve.

I don't hate Christians or Muslims btw. I hate Christians and Muslims who use their religion as an excuse to rationalize treating trans children without dignity and respect, who use it to rationalize their desire to deprive gay or trans people of their civil rights, and who use religion as shield to excuse their abysmal behavior. I also don't hate conservatives, although I suppose that depends what you consider a conservative today. I obviously don't respect anyone who claims to have "conservative values", like support for a free market economy, who then turn around and accuse trans children who are doing nothing more than being lawful customers of a private business "cheaters". Similarly, I don't respect people who claim to be "conservatives" who claim to support the 1st Amendment - unless someone says something they don't like in which case they accuse them of "cancel culture." They have proven that their not conservatives, they're just bigots.

Alright, alright, you have SOME fair points. I can admit my posting of the adult transgenders found on ALL OVER twitter was out of line but you could probably group that in the STFU category coming from the other side. I do believe Brittany Griner is a man to be honest. Always have going back to the Baylor days. That photo I posted is in fact genuine. That's just my opinion.

Post 242 was actually genuine.

As for the selfish comment, I also stand by that but that is towards the parents of the children. That is my opinion.

As for my posts attacking you, it is far from the manor in which you attack others. Like, extremely far from. I don't think I ever called anyone a freak. I believe what I said was it is a mental health issue. You probably assumed I have a mental health issue and you would be correct. That is thanks to both genetics and a traumatizing upbringing. I have been treated and have been living a good life for around 20 years because of that treatment. I guess that is why I say these kids need counseling among other things instead of coddling.

I do think you hate Christians and Muslims. Your posts have been so insulting not to think any different. Here is a mojor difference though. You are in fact entitled to your opinion. I'm not going to tell you to STFU but you on the other hand of already told people who disagree with your opinion to STFU. Can you not see your hypocracy? I'm not going to search and list every post of yours but just use an example on this very page, and I quote, "and you deserve for me to treat your fake religion like shit."

"You can claim I am fringe all you want, but the truth is my position on trans participation is sports is very mainstream, so much so that many people here agree with me even if they don't agree with my methods, as do CIF, ECNL, the NCAA and a bunch of others."

News for you buddy, 90% or more of conservative voters disagree with M2F in female sports along with many liberal women feminists and some liberal men. If we held a vote today on the subject, I have zero doubts that it would be banned. Zero.

Oh, and what about outside of your Liberal Comfort Zone of the West Coast? And then add in Japan, China, Russia, India, Africa and all of the Middle East (except Israel). I'll give you 60% of South America. Europe is kind of a toss up though, maybe leanin slightly your way. It's pretty safe to say your opinion along with far left is actually the minority.

Again, I'll give you some points though, you are completely right about private business or non-profits. They make their own rules. Not our opinions.

As for cheaters, you can enter by law but that still doesn't change the definition of cheating. "An act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination." Science and data says male genetics are physically superior to female genetics. That is the definition of "unfair advantage" hence cheating. The only gray area is I don't think M2F are acting intentionally acting dishonest as it is more denial of elementary biology and placing their feelings over facts. But by definition, it is still cheating. We could also use synonyms lof cheat like avoid, bypass, evade, SIDESTEP, dodge the fact male genetics are greater than female genetics physically and data of recorded competitions that involve track, swimming, weight lifting, combat, soccer, basketball, among others, all favor the male by an extremely large margin.

 

[crush]

Alright, alright, you have SOME fair points. I can admit my posting of the adult transgenders found on ALL OVER twitter was out of line but you could probably group that in the STFU category coming from the other side. I do believe Brittany Griner is a man to be honest. Always have going back to the Baylor days. That photo I posted is in fact genuine. That's just my opinion.

Post 242 was actually genuine.

As for the selfish comment, I also stand by that but that is towards the parents of the children. That is my opinion.

As for my posts attacking you, it is far from the manor in which you attack others. Like, extremely far from. I don't think I ever called anyone a freak. I believe what I said was it is a mental health issue. You probably assumed I have a mental health issue and you would be correct. That is thanks to both genetics and a traumatizing upbringing. I have been treated and have been living a good life for around 20 years because of that treatment. I guess that is why I say these kids need counseling among other things instead of coddling.

I do think you hate Christians and Muslims. Your posts have been so insulting not to think any different. Here is a mojor difference though. You are in fact entitled to your opinion. I'm not going to tell you to STFU but you on the other hand of already told people who disagree with your opinion to STFU. Can you not see your hypocracy? I'm not going to search and list every post of yours but just use an example on this very page, and I quote, "and you deserve for me to treat your fake religion like shit."

"You can claim I am fringe all you want, but the truth is my position on trans participation is sports is very mainstream, so much so that many people here agree with me even if they don't agree with my methods, as do CIF, ECNL, the NCAA and a bunch of others."

News for you buddy, 90% or more of conservative voters disagree with M2F in female sports along with many liberal women feminists and some liberal men. If we held a vote today on the subject, I have zero doubts that it would be banned. Zero.

Oh, and what about outside of your Liberal Comfort Zone of the West Coast? And then add in Japan, China, Russia, India, Africa and all of the Middle East (except Israel). I'll give you 60% of South America. Europe is kind of a toss up though, maybe leanin slightly your way. It's pretty safe to say your opinion along with far left is actually the minority.

Again, I'll give you some points though, you are completely right about private business or non-profits. They make their own rules. Not our opinions.

As for cheaters, you can enter by law but that still doesn't change the definition of cheating. "An act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination." Science and data says male genetics are physically superior to female genetics. That is the definition of "unfair advantage" hence cheating. The only gray area is I don't think M2F are acting intentionally acting dishonest as it is more denial of elementary biology and placing their feelings over facts. But by definition, it is still cheating. We could also use synonyms lof cheat like avoid, bypass, evade, SIDESTEP, dodge the fact male genetics are greater than female genetics physically and data of recorded competitions that involve track, swimming, weight lifting, combat, soccer, basketball, among others, all favor the male by an extremely large margin.

I think when the dust settles, we will find out who were men playing the part of a women in all areas of sport and work.

 

[Grace T.]

Alright, alright, you have SOME fair points. I can admit my posting of the adult transgenders found on ALL OVER twitter was out of line but you could probably group that in the STFU category coming from the other side. I do believe Brittany Griner is a man to be honest. Always have going back to the Baylor days. That photo I posted is in fact genuine. That's just my opinion.

Post 242 was actually genuine.

As for the selfish comment, I also stand by that but that is towards the parents of the children. That is my opinion.

As for my posts attacking you, it is far from the manor in which you attack others. Like, extremely far from. I don't think I ever called anyone a freak. I believe what I said was it is a mental health issue. You probably assumed I have a mental health issue and you would be correct. That is thanks to both genetics and a traumatizing upbringing. I have been treated and have been living a good life for around 20 years because of that treatment. I guess that is why I say these kids need counseling among other things instead of coddling.

I do think you hate Christians and Muslims. Your posts have been so insulting not to think any different. Here is a mojor difference though. You are in fact entitled to your opinion. I'm not going to tell you to STFU but you on the other hand of already told people who disagree with your opinion to STFU. Can you not see your hypocracy? I'm not going to search and list every post of yours but just use an example on this very page, and I quote, "and you deserve for me to treat your fake religion like shit."

"You can claim I am fringe all you want, but the truth is my position on trans participation is sports is very mainstream, so much so that many people here agree with me even if they don't agree with my methods, as do CIF, ECNL, the NCAA and a bunch of others."

News for you buddy, 90% or more of conservative voters disagree with M2F in female sports along with many liberal women feminists and some liberal men. If we held a vote today on the subject, I have zero doubts that it would be banned. Zero.

Oh, and what about outside of your Liberal Comfort Zone of the West Coast? And then add in Japan, China, Russia, India, Africa and all of the Middle East (except Israel). I'll give you 60% of South America. Europe is kind of a toss up though, maybe leanin slightly your way. It's pretty safe to say your opinion along with far left is actually the minority.

Again, I'll give you some points though, you are completely right about private business or non-profits. They make their own rules. Not our opinions.

As for cheaters, you can enter by law but that still doesn't change the definition of cheating. "An act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination." Science and data says male genetics are physically superior to female genetics. That is the definition of "unfair advantage" hence cheating. The only gray area is I don't think M2F are acting intentionally acting dishonest as it is more denial of elementary biology and placing their feelings over facts. But by definition, it is still cheating. We could also use synonyms lof cheat like avoid, bypass, evade, SIDESTEP, dodge the fact male genetics are greater than female genetics physically and data of recorded competitions that involve track, swimming, weight lifting, combat, soccer, basketball, among others, all favor the male by an extremely large margin.

The problem with this is that then you open up the entire unfair in the eye of the beholder thing since we can never agree on what is unfair among everyone. Cheating is violating the rules plain stop. otherwise:
-you are a cheater if you hold back your kid even for development or academic reasons and they are older for high school sports
-you are a cheater if your kid has adhd and plays on stimulants or asthma and they play on steroids
-you are a cheater if your kid is unusually early bloomer or super tall or super big and doesn’t play up
-you are a cheater if you provide your kid hgh even if they meet the medical criteria
-your a cheater if you provide your kid private training when there are those that cant
-you are a cheater if your kid gets their position on a team for any other reason beyond merit
-you are a cheater if your team is longballing it or having a defender kick the goalkick and the other team is trying to learn possession
-you are a cheater if your team is relying on physical play and playing a team focused on the passing game
-you are a cheater if your team is one of these aggressive clubs engaged in acts of poaching marquee players
-you are a cheater if you give your kid a coke or Red Bull before a game

 

[crush]

Samia DeMarco told the New Hampshire House Judiciary Committee Monday that her 13-year-old daughter is being harassed at her middle school by a male student who allegedly identifies as a “gender fluid lesbian.” According to The Post Millennial, DeMarco explained that the male student is being permitted to use facilities intended for girls at the school. She described to the committee that the student has left the stall door open while urinating and, with a group of “transgender friends” some of whom allegedly identify as animals, watched the girls change in the locker room.
DeMarco told the committee that when her daughter brought her harassment to the attention of school officials, they dismissed her discomfort and told her to use the unisex restroom instead.

 

[SurFutbol]

The problem with this is that then you open up the entire unfair in the eye of the beholder thing since we can never agree on what is unfair among everyone. Cheating is violating the rules plain stop. otherwise:
-you are a cheater if you hold back your kid even for development or academic reasons and they are older for high school sports
-you are a cheater if your kid has adhd and plays on stimulants or asthma and they play on steroids
-you are a cheater if your kid is unusually early bloomer or super tall or super big and doesn’t play up
-you are a cheater if you provide your kid hgh even if they meet the medical criteria
-your a cheater if you provide your kid private training when there are those that cant
-you are a cheater if your kid gets their position on a team for any other reason beyond merit
-you are a cheater if your team is longballing it or having a defender kick the goalkick and the other team is trying to learn possession
-you are a cheater if your team is relying on physical play and playing a team focused on the passing game
-you are a cheater if your team is one of these aggressive clubs engaged in acts of poaching marquee players
-you are a cheater if you give your kid a coke or Red Bull before a game

The more apt comparison is that being white is cheating. White players have a ridiculous amount of "unfair advantages" over black children. They have generational wealth that black families do not. Their grandparents and great grandparents never had to worry about getting a shit education because they grew up on the wrong side of segregated schools. Their grandparents never had to worry about the days when it was legal to deny employment based on color. They never had to lose breadwinners to prison for minor drug convictions now that it turns out that the opioid crisis has turned a ton of white folk into addicts. And they still don't need to worry that the cops will beat them to death because of their skin color. There is zero debate that it is "unfair" to let white girls play elite soccer. There are hundreds upon hundreds of white mini-Karens who would be shoved right off the bench and out of the sport if fair number of black kids could even afford to play soccer and also pay for all the extra training to which white kids have access but they don't.

 

[SurFutbol]

Oh, and what about outside of your Liberal Comfort Zone of the West Coast? And then add in Japan, China, Russia, India, Africa and all of the Middle East (except Israel). I'll give you 60% of South America. Europe is kind of a toss up though, maybe leanin slightly your way. It's pretty safe to say your opinion along with far left is actually the minority.

So you're saying we should follow the cultural beliefs of the Middle East, China, Russia, India and Africa? So you're saying stoning trans people is back on the table? Is this also your excuse for how you feel about gay marriage? But ok, take your Christianity and shove it up your ass.

 

[dad4]

The problem with this is that then you open up the entire unfair in the eye of the beholder thing since we can never agree on what is unfair among everyone. Cheating is violating the rules plain stop. otherwise:
-you are a cheater if you hold back your kid even for development or academic reasons and they are older for high school sports
-you are a cheater if your kid has adhd and plays on stimulants or asthma and they play on steroids
-you are a cheater if your kid is unusually early bloomer or super tall or super big and doesn’t play up
-you are a cheater if you provide your kid hgh even if they meet the medical criteria
-your a cheater if you provide your kid private training when there are those that cant
-you are a cheater if your kid gets their position on a team for any other reason beyond merit
-you are a cheater if your team is longballing it or having a defender kick the goalkick and the other team is trying to learn possession
-you are a cheater if your team is relying on physical play and playing a team focused on the passing game
-you are a cheater if your team is one of these aggressive clubs engaged in acts of poaching marquee players
-you are a cheater if you give your kid a coke or Red Bull before a game

That's a hell of a stretch.

Almost none of your examples are generally viewed as cheating.

Over half of the country thinks it is cheating if you enter an XY athlete in an adult women's event.

Long term, that isn't tenable. Eventually, the rules will get fixed. Probably one sport at a time, after someone like Thomas embarrassed the standards body.

 

[watfly]

What I am absolutely against is any mutilation and hormone treatments of the body before age 18. Again, I don’t care what kids want to identify as but destroying your body before you are an adult is not something I will ever agree with.

I can understand and appreciate this position; however, in the cases of true gender dysphoria you're likely to achieve a better outcome if the hormone treatments are started pre-puberty (not sure if that's the case for surgery though). I think both sides paint the transgender issue with too broad of a brush. I think each case is different and may not involve gender dysphoria, but may involve some other issue whether mental or physical. Hence why we see some transitions later regretted by individuals. No question that strict protocols should be in place including extensive counseling/support/training for both parent and child before a transition should occur. I believe that most professionals recommend a period of social transition prior to hormonal and surgical.

Tough call and I wouldn't want to be in the shoes of a parent with a transgender child. I know a parents of a FTM kid that felt their decision came down in part to having a "dead daughter, or an alive son".

Regardless, transitioning and competition are two totally different issues.

 

[kickingandscreaming]

That’s why you don’t put the requirements in for youth soccer to give the kids at least until they are 18. That why you let them play where they feel most comfortable to give them the breathing room instead of putting the mtf in the dress with the boys where he/she will get mocked if even makes the team due to the drama and discrimination (we all know it’s not a true meritocracy)

that’s why if we consider an 18 year old an adult they have the right to make choices which at that point may very well be a hurried transition. For some they will have thought and lived it for years already.

I like this approach in theory, but it will be nearly impossible to implement with the existing structure of scholarships in college for athletics without creating MtF college sports (and, then why not FtM?). Allocated money is driving a significant part of the debate.

 

[MARsSPEED]

The problem with this is that then you open up the entire unfair in the eye of the beholder thing since we can never agree on what is unfair among everyone. Cheating is violating the rules plain stop. otherwise:
-you are a cheater if you hold back your kid even for development or academic reasons and they are older for high school sports
Yep, always been against that but that has nothing to do with physicallity.
-you are a cheater if your kid has adhd and plays on stimulants or asthma and they play on steroids
Would have to review the data on that. I don't see any girls running or swimming as fast as men even when non HGH. If it was proven that an big advantage was given, then yes, I would say cheater.
-you are a cheater if your kid is unusually early bloomer or super tall or super big and doesn’t play up
That is NATURAL biology mixed with human nature. No cheating.
-you are a cheater if you provide your kid hgh even if they meet the medical criteria
HGH can give a major advantage, so yes, cheater.
-your a cheater if you provide your kid private training when there are those that cant
Social advantage. We can't afford training like other families but my child puts in the work and has YouTube sources. Not cheating. Messi/Ronaldo/Marta grew up poor. Also not a physical adavantage.
-you are a cheater if your kid gets their position on a team for any other reason beyond merit
Social advantage, not a physical advantage. But yes, that is a form of cheating.
-you are a cheater if your team is longballing it or having a defender kick the goalkick and the other team is trying to learn possession
You're losing me. That is style of play to achieve a win which is the point of a game. No cheating.
-you are a cheater if your team is relying on physical play and playing a team focused on the passing game
I'm just going to pretend you didn't post this. Style of play again to achieve a win, which is the point of the game. No cheating.
-you are a cheater if your team is one of these aggressive clubs engaged in acts of poaching marquee players
That is considered cheating, especially by ECNL during the season. Clubs and players can be punished for doing this during the season for doing this. Off season is game on however.
-you are a cheater if you give your kid a coke or Red Bull before a game
No, you're just a really bad parent. Caffiene will not make anyone run faster, longer, or stronger. Caffiene no different from ADHD drugs.

Answer above, sorry, I guess I should have mentioned large physical advantage.

 

[SurFutbol]

That's a hell of a stretch.

Almost none of your examples are generally viewed as cheating.

Over half of the country thinks it is cheating if you enter an XY athlete in an adult women's event.

Long term, that isn't tenable. Eventually, the rules will get fixed. Probably one sport at a time, after someone like Thomas embarrassed the standards body.

Playing in accordance with the rules is also not generally viewed as cheating, because it isn't cheating.

 

[MARsSPEED]

The more apt comparison is that being white is cheating. White players have a ridiculous amount of "unfair advantages" over black children. They have generational wealth that black families do not. Their grandparents and great grandparents never had to worry about getting a shit education because they grew up on the wrong side of segregated schools. Their grandparents never had to worry about the days when it was legal to deny employment based on color. They never had to lose breadwinners to prison for minor drug convictions now that it turns out that the opioid crisis has turned a ton of white folk into addicts. And they still don't need to worry that the cops will beat them to death because of their skin color. There is zero debate that it is "unfair" to let white girls play elite soccer. There are hundreds upon hundreds of white mini-Karens who would be shoved right off the bench and out of the sport if fair number of black kids could even afford to play soccer and also pay for all the extra training to which white kids have access but they don't.

LOL, and thanks to genetics, Black athletes also have an unfair advantage over whites. Gotta love Natural Nature! I’m not complaining though and 100% support it. Because it is natural.

You are a left wing extremist no better than your arch enemy Trump Supporter. Maybe change your name to Gaslighter.

 

[Grace T.]

That's a hell of a stretch.

Almost none of your examples are generally viewed as cheating.

Over half of the country thinks it is cheating if you enter an XY athlete in an adult women's event.

Long term, that isn't tenable. Eventually, the rules will get fixed. Probably one sport at a time, after someone like Thomas embarrassed the standards body.

a. The question is in the details. If you phrase it as you did I wouldn't be surprised. If you phrase it "do you support an athlete who is xy playing in the female division who underwent the change due to a psychological condition and not to seek an unfair advantage, and adequate steps have been taken to ensure there is no undo advantage". Again, the question of whether we can get to an undo advantage is a scientific one which has not be fully answered yet and may vary from sport to sport.
b. "none of your examples are generally viewed as cheating". Oh come on. When my kid was younger and a kid that was full adult entered into the field, everyone would yell out "hey that's not fair....that kid is probably playing on false papers....check his papers". Whenever my kid stepped onto the field and there was a team that recruited tall athletes that towered over them, same thing. Whenever there was a team that played physical and the ref didn't blow the whistle, same thing. I've seen the same as a ref. We've heard the same on these forums. There are even recorded fights from such play that belie your position. Your statement is just false.
c. So this is now a mob thing? Rule by the majority? Is it the majority in California or the majority in Texas or the majority in the US?
Because we are getting to the point where there will be a different answer in different places. Guess because the majority thought black kids shouldn't play with white kids in some states that was fine, because the majority decided.
d. Yes, the rules will get fixed but not necessarily in the way you like it. In the short term, there's a split between the red and blue states. The blue states will continue to refine protocols and pursue the science with no limitations on youth sports. The red states will outright ban. We'll have an issue where they'll be a competition in the red state and some red state will overstep its bounds and ban a blue state athlete. The feds will then have to step in. Where the feds end up depend in part on what the science says 10 years from now, but it could be separate leagues for some sports and close enough for others.

 

[Grace T.]

I like this approach in theory, but it will be nearly impossible to implement with the existing structure of scholarships in college for athletics without creating MtF college sports (and, then why not FtM?). Allocated money is driving a significant part of the debate.

The current default is that scholarships are generally impossible/hard for trans athletes to secure because coaches aren't sure if the play eligible guidelines will be met. Separate leagues would change that, as well as address the overlooked from of FTM.

 

[MARsSPEED]

So you're saying we should follow the cultural beliefs of the Middle East, China, Russia, India and Africa? So you're saying stoning trans people is back on the table? Is this also your excuse for how you feel about gay marriage? But ok, take your Christianity and shove it up your ass.

Who mentioned Gay marriage or how I feel about it? Again, you and your assuming ways showing what how well you parallel the racists. You are pretty much just a liberal skinhead.

 

[thirteenknots]

a. The question is in the details. If you phrase it as you did I wouldn't be surprised. If you phrase it "do you support an athlete who is xy playing in the female division who underwent the change due to a psychological condition and not to seek an unfair advantage, and adequate steps have been taken to ensure there is no undo advantage". Again, the question of whether we can get to an undo advantage is a scientific one which has not be fully answered yet and may vary from sport to sport.
b. "none of your examples are generally viewed as cheating". Oh come on. When my kid was younger and a kid that was full adult entered into the field, everyone would yell out "hey that's not fair....that kid is probably playing on false papers....check his papers". Whenever my kid stepped onto the field and there was a team that recruited tall athletes that towered over them, same thing. Whenever there was a team that played physical and the ref didn't blow the whistle, same thing. I've seen the same as a ref. We've heard the same on these forums. There are even recorded fights from such play that belie your position. Your statement is just false.
c. So this is now a mob thing? Rule by the majority? Is it the majority in California or the majority in Texas or the majority in the US?
Because we are getting to the point where there will be a different answer in different places. Guess because the majority thought black kids shouldn't play with white kids in some states that was fine, because the majority decided.
d. Yes, the rules will get fixed but not necessarily in the way you like it. In the short term, there's a split between the red and blue states. The blue states will continue to refine protocols and pursue the science with no limitations on youth sports. The red states will outright ban. We'll have an issue where they'll be a competition in the red state and some red state will overstep its bounds and ban a blue state athlete. The feds will then have to step in. Where the feds end up depend in part on what the science says 10 years from now, but it could be separate leagues for some sports and close enough for others.

It's CHEATING.

You can " Gaslight " all you want, but it will not
change the TRUTH.

It's CHEATING.

 

[SurFutbol]

Who mentioned Gay marriage or how I feel about it? Again, you and your assuming ways showing what how well you parallel the racists. You are pretty much just a liberal skinhead.

You're the one who said the U.S. and State of California should be following the cultural beliefs of the most repressive regions on earth. Or are you just limiting them to the repressive cultural beliefs that you agree with?

 

[Grace T.]

Playing in accordance with the rules is also not generally viewed as cheating, because it isn't cheating.

The thing about it is what is underlying dad4 and 13knotts and some others assumptions is a moral judgment, which is why they jump to "it's cheating". It's the same kind of treatment they dolled out to gays 10 or so years ago. The moral assumption here is "it's just wrong...they were born in their biological sex, they should stay that way".

The hard left's approach, that anyone can declare a gender, and that gender is some sort of false cultural construct, is just as wrong. If anything the biology of trans brains shows that it isn't a cultural construct, but there is something very different in the way men and women present. There may very well be people who present "neither" but the approach that gender is a construct undermines even some of the core feminist ideals we have fought so hard for.

The correct way to view this is as a disability. Since it is something akin to a disability, accommodations must be accorded, where feasible. On the youth level, it's easy because we don't really care about things like testosterone. On the college level, it's a balancing act taking various factors involved, and if that accommodation ultimately cannot be accorded, you must afford separate facilities as an accommodation.

 

[kickingandscreaming]

Regardless, transitioning and competition are two totally different issues.

Absolutely. We are focused on a symptom of a much bigger issue. There's nothing wrong with attempting to solve this particular symptom, but in terms of the problems faced with transitioning and the choice to transition, it's not that significant.

 

[crush]

The thing about it is what is underlying dad4 and 13knotts and some others assumptions is a moral judgment, which is why they jump to "it's cheating". It's the same kind of treatment they dolled out to gays 10 or so years ago. The moral assumption here is "it's just wrong...they were born in their biological sex, they should stay that way"

Moral? It's scaring women right now. Lia is all we have to go by Grace T. Protect all the women and all kids first before you send grown men at 6'4" exposing themselves with their package to the girls. That is the real issue. I just got some crazy news that I can prove yet but Mars shared about one males playing with girls and making millions. It will come out.