Time to Play

gkmom said:
How do you envision this partial quarantine to work? Whos going to deliver food and groceries to the at-risk population? Are young/healthy people going to do all the work required by grocery stores, hospitals, gas stations, and utilities? Are all young/healthy people going to move out of their parents/grandparents' houses until this is all over? Where's everyone going to live?
Is it ok with you if businesses only employ young/healthy people temporarily - and then they lose their jobs when the older/at risk people get cleared to return to work?
The reason that the lockdowns are keeping rates down is because everyone is complying. If some people aren't required to comply, that increases the rate of new infections, and exposes everyone to increased risks.
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Copa9 said:
Elementary kids will not wear masks all day, classrooms are very crowded and in some cases difficult for teacher to even move around, ask plant supervisors how the kids leave the bathrooms, ask a teacher how often they get sick from what the kids bring to school. Ask a teacher what it would be like to teach outside all day and have the students six feet apart. I am sure "Pediatricians" are all for it. Side note - if you suspect your child is depressed or has a mental illness, definitely seek the help of a mental health professional. Mental illness is a real problem in teenagers, our school district had 3-4 suicides last fall, so again seek professional help for your child regardless of age if you suspect mental illness.
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Sorry but I just don't have the mentality to address problems with "how it can't work", I address problems with "how it can work". Again I find it a very odd mentality to look at the negative of everything and make it a zero sum game and not make it a win, win situation.

The solution is easy. In its simplest sense we should do what we always done for the last 100 years and quarantine the sick and protect the vulnerable. Its not possible to eliminate all risk, nor should that ever be our goal. Our goal should be to mitigate risk on a cost/benefit basis. Cost in terms of health not dollars. First step, don't force nursing homes and other vulnerable communities to accept Covid patients. Vulnerable people should shelter in place and have very limited exposure to anyone else. If they're going to have exposure to other people, both should be wearing gloves and masks (preferably a N95 mask for the vulnerable since they're readily available now). Plus anyone that is going to have exposure to the person must have a temperature check. It's pretty simple. Please don't let your personal fear of Covid distort your common sense.

That having been said there is one thing that I'm concerned regarding fighting Covid and that is our current state of testing. Right now, at least in San Diego, it is very difficult to get a test if you have no symptoms. I could be wrong, but I believe its not due so much to a shortage of tests, but the ability to timely process the test. I believe its also because doctors are not that concerned about potential asymptomatic individuals. We had an employee who got Covid from their significant other and had direct contact with another employee. It was incredibly difficult to get that exposed, symptom free, employee a test and were still waiting on the results. I would like to see more available and timely testing for directly exposed but symptom free individuals. It's critical for decision making.
 
gkmom said:
How do you envision this partial quarantine to work? Whos going to deliver food and groceries to the at-risk population? Are young/healthy people going to do all the work required by grocery stores, hospitals, gas stations, and utilities? Are all young/healthy people going to move out of their parents/grandparents' houses until this is all over? Where's everyone going to live?
Click to expand...

There was a time in our history when we said "women and children first". I get why the women fell out of it...our calls for equality. But it's stunning how we are wiling to actively harm (in some cases even torment) children for the sake of the safety of adults. This is even when the science is showing that while disease spread is possible in the schools, it is not a major vector, yet we're opening up the bars (which we've seen are a major vector), protesting, opening movie theatres (where no one can wear a mask), gyms (which are breading grounds for germs and usually exclude kids) and even Disneyland. The thinking is just so backwards, and really is tantamount to advocating for a perpetual lockdown until a vaccine (because the limited schedules make it impossible for working parents of the little ones to work, or even the middle ones since a parent is going to need to be there to help usher them through the remote/homework learning).

The active harm to the children is obvious. The younger ones will be delayed up to a year in basic reading and math skills, and there's already talk in the professional education circles of maybe having to hold them back 1 year. The older ones are prepping for college and are in full swing with the courses that matter, whether APs, language, or even algebra. Children have been subjected to additional abuse, being locked in with parents who are hostile or depressed or drinking, and being outside of the schools means people aren't as easily picking up on this abuse. The psychologists all say children have shown increased signs of depression, anxiety and in the older ones suicidal thoughts. Their physical health has suffered as well (remember all those complaints pre-COVID about screentime?). We know vaccination rates are heavily down. For all age groups, they aren't (unless their parents aren't locking down, in which case what's the point) learning valuable socialization skills, whether kindgarteners learning to interact in a classroom or teenagers looking to ask each other out. Inequality has gotten worse, with kids from rich educated households having parents to pickup the slack, but poorer ones falling behind. In some school districts, they've lost track of 5% of the student population. For the high extroverts, this isolation of up to a year has been emotional brutal and traumatizing.

What we are doing to children for the sake of adults is active harm and just plain wrong. This isn't how society is supposed to work. Adults make sacrifices for the children. They always have. When did everything become so ass backwards?

p.s. the mask thing is one thing my pediatrician friend and I have been going back and forth on. She was originally skeptical about then wearing but then went to saying even the little ones in her practice seem to be wearing them fine. I reminded her that's only for short time periods. Though she's only one contributor, it's one of the reason the mask requirement is a little soft (with some leeway for the littlest ones or kids with disabilities).
 
watfly said:
Sorry but I just don't have the mentality to address problems with "how it can't work", I address problems with "how it can work". Again I find it a very odd mentality to look at the negative of everything and make it a zero sum game and not make it a win, win situation.

The solution is easy. In its simplest sense we should do what we always done for the last 100 years and quarantine the sick and protect the vulnerable. Its not possible to eliminate all risk, nor should that ever be our goal. Our goal should be to mitigate risk on a cost/benefit basis. Cost in terms of health not dollars. First step, don't force nursing homes and other vulnerable communities to accept Covid patients. Vulnerable people should shelter in place and have very limited exposure to anyone else. If they're going to have exposure to other people, both should be wearing gloves and masks (preferably a N95 mask for the vulnerable since they're readily available now). Plus anyone that is going to have exposure to the person must have a temperature check. It's pretty simple. Please don't let your personal fear of Covid distort your common sense.

That having been said there is one thing that I'm concerned regarding fighting Covid and that is our current state of testing. Right now, at least in San Diego, it is very difficult to get a test if you have no symptoms. I could be wrong, but I believe its not due so much to a shortage of tests, but the ability to timely process the test. I believe its also because doctors are not that concerned about potential asymptomatic individuals. We had an employee who got Covid from their significant other and had direct contact with another employee. It was incredibly difficult to get that exposed, symptom free, employee a test and were still waiting on the results. I would like to see more available and timely testing for directly exposed but symptom free individuals. It's critical for decision making.
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Grace T. said:
There was a time in our history when we said "women and children first". I get why the women fell out of it...our calls for equality. But it's stunning how we are wiling to actively harm (in some cases even torment) children for the sake of the safety of adults. This is even when the science is showing that while disease spread is possible in the schools, it is not a major vector, yet we're opening up the bars (which we've seen are a major vector), protesting, opening movie theatres (where no one can wear a mask), gyms (which are breading grounds for germs and usually exclude kids) and even Disneyland. The thinking is just so backwards, and really is tantamount to advocating for a perpetual lockdown until a vaccine (because the limited schedules make it impossible for working parents of the little ones to work, or even the middle ones since a parent is going to need to be there to help usher them through the remote/homework learning).

The active harm to the children is obvious. The younger ones will be delayed up to a year in basic reading and math skills, and there's already talk in the professional education circles of maybe having to hold them back 1 year. The older ones are prepping for college and are in full swing with the courses that matter, whether APs, language, or even algebra. Children have been subjected to additional abuse, being locked in with parents who are hostile or depressed or drinking, and being outside of the schools means people aren't as easily picking up on this abuse. The psychologists all say children have shown increased signs of depression, anxiety and in the older ones suicidal thoughts. Their physical health has suffered as well (remember all those complaints pre-COVID about screentime?). We know vaccination rates are heavily down. For all age groups, they aren't (unless their parents aren't locking down, in which case what's the point) learning valuable socialization skills, whether kindgarteners learning to interact in a classroom or teenagers looking to ask each other out. Inequality has gotten worse, with kids from rich educated households having parents to pickup the slack, but poorer ones falling behind. In some school districts, they've lost track of 5% of the student population. For the high extroverts, this isolation of up to a year has been emotional brutal and traumatizing.

What we are doing to children for the sake of adults is active harm and just plain wrong. This isn't how society is supposed to work. Adults make sacrifices for the children. They always have. When did everything become so ass backwards?

p.s. the mask thing is one thing my pediatrician friend and I have been going back and forth on. She was originally skeptical about then wearing but then went to saying even the little ones in her practice seem to be wearing them fine. I reminded her that's only for short time periods. Though she's only one contributor, it's one of the reason the mask requirement is a little soft (with some leeway for the littlest ones or kids with disabilities).
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If you guys have it so figured out, why isn't the approach the country is taking? The government, Health departments,etc. And no, it's not a political thing. The red States aren't doing what you're suggesting either. Even Pence and Mitch McConnell have said it's important to comply with social distancing guidelines - which includes all ages
 
Gov. Gavin Newsom ordered seven counties including Los Angeles to immediately close any bars and nightspots that are open citing coronavirus concerns.

California Gov. Newsom orders bars closed in counties including Los Angeles, citing coronavirus | Fox News

The closures affect several counties, including the most populous in the U.S.
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com

First off we're weren't prepared or didn't have plans to deal with any pandemic.

Slow to respond or take action for many months to the warnings, risks, info we basically did very little little until was too late.

After months of shut down we still had no clear national plans, guidance so the states went off on their own and did various things.

Some opened up in May with too few guidelines precautions, we had the biggest civil rights movement of all time happen, the whole distancing, Mask recommendations thing was ignored by too many and now we're going merry go around.

Leadership has been lacking so people have started to just go there own way(s). Individual rights vs the group's greater good is now a hot topic. We're much too divided it seems to work better together,

Australia is looking better all the time to me, we can do much better so let hope we can.
 
Which country would you recommend to send my children out of the USA in the next year so that they can get a good education and not be disrupted ?
 
gkmom said:
If you guys have it so figured out, why isn't the approach the country is taking? The government, Health departments,etc. And no, it's not a political thing. The red States aren't doing what you're suggesting either. Even Pence and Mitch McConnell have said it's important to comply with social distancing guidelines - which includes all ages
Click to expand...

The impetus to "do something" is very high in humans. Yet most of the strategies around the world (whether lockdowns, Swedish style, hard test and trace, soft test and trace) have been a failure. The only ones who've had real success are a handful of islands (including our own Hawaii) that were able to smother it before it got going (Hawaii's economy, though, is in tatters and for a tourist state it's not sustainable for a year or more), Oz (with interprovince lockdowns though that's in doubt in Victoria now) or China (if you believe them, and draconian measures such as welding people into apartments, detension camps, and forced testing). That doesn't mean we can't take reasonable precautions, but our ability to take these precautions have been partially shattered by the stupid nation wide lockdown we initially put in place (spending our bullet) and then the protests (which eliminated any possibility of more bullets). The "do something" impetus gets higher too if you think we are in this only for a few more months (since Fauci said we're getting a vaccine by year end), but at this point I've begun to suspect that (as with the masks) they are lying about their ability to deploy just to control the population-- though I really really hope I'm wrong about that.

lafalafa said:
Gov. Gavin Newsom ordered seven counties including Los Angeles to immediately close any bars and nightspots that are open citing coronavirus concerns.

California Gov. Newsom orders bars closed in counties including Los Angeles, citing coronavirus | Fox News

The closures affect several counties, including the most populous in the U.S.
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com

First off we're weren't prepared or didn't have plans to deal with any pandemic.

Slow to respond or take action for many months to the warnings, risks, info we basically did very little little until was too late.

After months of shut down we had no clear national guidance so the states went off on their own and did various things.

Some opened up in May with too few guidelines precautions, we had the biggest civil rights movement of all time happen, the whole Mask recommendations thing was ignored by too many and now we're going merry go around.

Leadership has been lacking so people have started to just go there own way(s). Individual rights vs the group's greater good is now a hot topic. We're much too divided it seems to work better together,

Australia is looking better all the time to me, we can do much better so let hope we can.
Click to expand...

-Closing the bars is probably the right thing to do. They've been shown to be vectors (more so than schools)
-there was clear national guidance issued by the CDC. Some states like Georgia said nah and decided to go early. Some states like California said nah and decided to go late. Given who is at the top, you probably wouldn't have liked the national guidelines, and which wouldn't have said go ahead and protest
-Australia did better because it shut down its provinces and borders. No one from NY bringing it into Florida, for example. And part of our increase in the southern areas is from people fleeing Mexico looking for better care (though the news has been reluctant to look at the exact figures). The US would have a very hard time shutting down state to state travel because the US Constitution was (because of history) expressly designed to try and stop that. It would likely require martial law and shutting down the courts.
 
Grace T. said:
The impetus to "do something" is very high in humans. Yet most of the strategies around the world (whether lockdowns, Swedish style, hard test and trace, soft test and trace) have been a failure. The only ones who've had real success are a handful of islands (including our own Hawaii) that were able to smother it before it got going (Hawaii's economy, though, is in tatters and for a tourist state it's not sustainable for a year or more), Oz (with interprovince lockdowns though that's in doubt in Victoria now) or China (if you believe them, and draconian measures such as welding people into apartments, detension camps, and forced testing). That doesn't mean we can't take reasonable precautions, but our ability to take these precautions have been partially shattered by the stupid nation wide lockdown we initially put in place (spending our bullet) and then the protests (which eliminated any possibility of more bullets). The "do something" impetus gets higher too if you think we are in this only for a few more months (since Fauci said we're getting a vaccine by year end), but at this point I've begun to suspect that (as with the masks) they are lying about their ability to deploy just to control the population-- though I really really hope I'm wrong about that.



-Closing the bars is probably the right thing to do. They've been shown to be vectors (more so than schools)
-there was clear national guidance issued by the CDC. Some states like Georgia said nah and decided to go early. Some states like California said nah and decided to go late. Given who is at the top, you probably wouldn't have liked the national guidelines, and which wouldn't have said go ahead and protest
-Australia did better because it shut down its provinces and borders. No one from NY bringing it into Florida, for example. And part of our increase in the southern areas is from people fleeing Mexico looking for better care (though the news has been reluctant to look at the exact figures). The US would have a very hard time shutting down state to state travel because the US Constitution was (because of history) expressly designed to try and stop that. It would likely require martial law and shutting down the courts.
Click to expand...
My adopted bro has lived on the west side of Kauai since 1988. I surfed a beach break by the naval base and let's just say my wife was impressed with my abilities. She was scared at first but my bro told her I was a true waterman in every since of the word. I can do anything in the water. I love the ocean. We went to Kauai on our honeymoon and my bro planned out a few days. He's a good guy with a good heart and I do get jealous, I wont lie. No wife or kids to deal with.....lol and he just plays with no worries. He said Hawaii is the best ever. I asked him about those white folks selling timeshares and he said their doing great. My bro looks Hawaiian and speaks the language well and acks the part when he needs to be Hawaiian. I talked with him yesterday and he said it's paradise. No tourist to come and ruin a wave he said....lol. He did say his buddy and his wife who sold timeshares are making almost as much as they were before Corona. They always had to work and it seemed like they could never really enjoy paradise. Now they have the Islands to themselves and they cant work. Not a bad gig. I asked my bro what will happen when the money dries up and he said it wont and all is good.
 
Chalklines said:
Bars closed but youth soccer's a go? 2 weeks boys and it's over
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Assuming youth sports gets shut down again? What do you do as a parent? Kids begin to lose interest and parents (me) as well if we have to go back to zoom training. What’s the point of having the kids train if we might not play until next spring.
Very sad times for our children’s social and soccer development.
 
SoccerFan4Life said:
Assuming youth sports gets shut down again? What do you do as a parent? Kids begin to lose interest and parents (me) as well if we have to go back to zoom training. What’s the point of having the kids train if we might not play until next spring.
Very sad times for our children’s social and soccer development.
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Hiking? Read some books? Draw closer to one another? I thought you said, "what's the point of having kids if you can't do soccer.........lol"
 
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SoccerFan4Life said:
Assuming youth sports gets shut down again? What do you do as a parent? Kids begin to lose interest and parents (me) as well if we have to go back to zoom training. What’s the point of having the kids train if we might not play until next spring.
Very sad times for our children’s social and soccer development.
Click to expand...

Yanking youth sports in those areas that they've started would require them yanking the day camp permission. Not sure they'll take that step given some parents relying upon it for child care. More likely we can't get out of the distanced learning phase and things die a slow death. Things will likely also shift underground for fall (Spanish leagues, pickup leagues, ASA even has a plan for futsal). Shifting things underground will mean all but the highest end teams won't survive this in tact.

My son's a GK and would continue to train 1 on 1 in hopes of spring middle school season with his school, the occurence of which will depend if they are lying about a vaccine or not.
 
Grace T. said:
Yanking youth sports in those areas that they've started would require them yanking the day camp permission. Not sure they'll take that step given some parents relying upon it for child care. More likely we can't get out of the distanced learning phase and things die a slow death. Things will likely also shift underground for fall (Spanish leagues, pickup leagues, ASA even has a plan for futsal). Shifting things underground will mean all but the highest end teams won't survive this in tact.

My son's a GK and would continue to train 1 on 1 in hopes of spring middle school season with his school, the occurence of which will depend if they are lying about a vaccine or not.
Click to expand...
Under ground soccer is already in full swing, just not at Great Park.....lol!!! Shhhhhhhhhhh, just kidding. I have no idea who is playing underground Futbol :)
 
Grace T. said:
The impetus to "do something" is very high in humans. Yet most of the strategies around the world (whether lockdowns, Swedish style, hard test and trace, soft test and trace) have been a failure. The only ones who've had real success are a handful of islands (including our own Hawaii) that were able to smother it before it got going (Hawaii's economy, though, is in tatters and for a tourist state it's not sustainable for a year or more), Oz (with interprovince lockdowns though that's in doubt in Victoria now) or China (if you believe them, and draconian measures such as welding people into apartments, detension camps, and forced testing). That doesn't mean we can't take reasonable precautions, but our ability to take these precautions have been partially shattered by the stupid nation wide lockdown we initially put in place (spending our bullet) and then the protests (which eliminated any possibility of more bullets). The "do something" impetus gets higher too if you think we are in this only for a few more months (since Fauci said we're getting a vaccine by year end), but at this point I've begun to suspect that (as with the masks) they are lying about their ability to deploy just to control the population-- though I really really hope I'm wrong about that.



-Closing the bars is probably the right thing to do. They've been shown to be vectors (more so than schools)
-there was clear national guidance issued by the CDC. Some states like Georgia said nah and decided to go early. Some states like California said nah and decided to go late. Given who is at the top, you probably wouldn't have liked the national guidelines, and which wouldn't have said go ahead and protest
-Australia did better because it shut down its provinces and borders. No one from NY bringing it into Florida, for example. And part of our increase in the southern areas is from people fleeing Mexico looking for better care (though the news has been reluctant to look at the exact figures). The US would have a very hard time shutting down state to state travel because the US Constitution was (because of history) expressly designed to try and stop that. It would likely require martial law and shutting down the courts.
Click to expand...

Yeah understand what saying but the CDC stuff has been all over the place and the pres, vice and others have contradicted them several times and now this::
www.yahoo.com

Actual Coronavirus Infections Vastly Undercounted, CDC Data Shows

The number of coronavirus infections in many parts of the United States is more than 10 times higher than the reported rate, according to data released Friday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.The analysis is part of a wide-ranging set of surveys started by the CDC to estimate...
www.yahoo.com www.yahoo.com

Hawaii is nice
 
Out of curiosity, I Googled to find child care outbreaks. Child care has remained open in some cases the entire time for essential workers and in most cases have been open for a couple months. Basically, all I could find (you might find more results) was some workers and a kid infected in Colorado. Although I found a twelve kid and four employee breakout and another smaller breakout in Canada. In all of these cases no one was hospitalized and no evidence that it resulted in any serious issues with anyone they contacted. No evidence that kids indoors in close contact are a significant issue with the spread of the virus. As long as we keep kids out of bars and protests they should be in pretty good shape.
 
Ellejustus said:
Hiking? Read some books? Draw closer to one another? I thought you said, "what's the point of having kids if you can't do soccer.........lol"
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LOL. We did so much hiking over the past 4 months that none of my kids get excited about hiking anymore. Biking is the new thing in our house but let's see how long that last. Learning how to surf is definitely in our to do list this summer. Personally, if we go back to quarantine, I think that will be the end for soccer for my little one. We will just wait until everything gets back to normal to see if she wants to play again in 2022?!?
 
SoccerFan4Life said:
LOL. We did so much hiking over the past 4 months that none of my kids get excited about hiking anymore. Biking is the new thing in our house but let's see how long that last. Learning how to surf is definitely in our to do list this summer. Personally, if we go back to quarantine, I think that will be the end for soccer for my little one. We will just wait until everything gets back to normal to see if she wants to play again in 2022?!?
Click to expand...
Surfing is free except the board and wet suit. Hiking is boring and my kids are not interested. Ocean is free and it's peaceful. My dd came home yesterday and said it was 2-3 and she was in the water for 6 hours. My son is renting a beach house somewhere I wont say with his buddies from HS and their having a blast. LA Mayor just told everyone in LA to stay home again. Are we back to everyone from LA coming to OC beaches again and bringing the virus with them? OC is next, I can feel it. How old is your little one?
 
Grace T. said:
Pediatrician's weighing in on schools. My friend helped write these. Basically they advocate re open the schools FT, kids should wear masks (with certain exceptions), move a lot of stuff outdoors where feasible, contact sports & bussing limited, but schools need to be prepared if outbreak for virtual learning. Distance learning comes under criticism for lack of mental health/suicide support. Speed reading, so may have misread stuff, but that's the jist.

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SD Unified has confirmed students will be able to attend school in-person 5 days/week next school year. They will also have and distance learning options for those that prefer.
 
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