Spain Women and thoughts on ECNL

Grace T. said:
Parents are the worst enemies of this. Here's another one you'll appreciate in the closing days of his experience with the team and the parents. So they go up 2-0 quickly...they play possession and the other team doesn't implement a high press which means the defenders are able to get the ball up. The coach has changed his emphasis by this point to attack and so they do very well and score 2 easy goals. The opposing coach calls for a high press. There are a couple of passes out the back that require heroic efforts from some players to keep it in (one of them is in kiddo's passing highlights vid which requires a clever open pass into space). But some players make mistakes: in short order by minute 30 they've had like 3 DFKS called against them, a PK which goes in, and like 4 1v1s most lost off the possession. Game is now 2-3 against us and my kid now starts rather than to kick everything direct and quickly to slow the game down in accordance with the instructions of his coach. He can tell the backline has lost confidence and every attempt to go long or short is going against us and the players are just shellshocked. He starts time wasting so the score doesn't get even more lopsided against us going into the half because we haven't been able to get the ball to the attacking third in the last 10 minutes. The parents start screaming at him: what are you doing...hurry up we are behind. He's trying to reorganize the team and get them to the half where they can talk to the coach without anymore damage being done and the parents are ready to murder him.
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Yeah parents can really self destruct this stuff -- and GKs and CBs feel the brunt of this most of the time. It's not a great scenario because there are more bad coaches (or unsupported) than good ones. So in many cases that divisive parent isn't "wrong". But if coaches could have the room, permission, and directive to train the brain and not focus on results, I think that would be a good start. That way the coach could start the season off with a plan and can relay to the parents how critical team culture is and that there will be zero tolerance for folks not on board. I would almost require families of younger players to come out to a match of the club's strongest cognitive teams and explain to them that this doesn't happen over night. It requires a lot of hard work, patience, and a high tolerance around results.
 
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whatithink said:
Most mistakes from the press do not result in 50/50s. I don't understand your emphasis on this tbh. You do need to be positioned to take advantage of mistakes caused by your press, but that's about positional awareness and having a press that is organized.
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While I believe possession soccer is vital and necessary to win games, the ability to win 50/50 balls from strength and speed is very important. If both teams are playing possession soccer and know how to position and move into the correct space offensively and defensively, there will be plenty of 50/50 balls.

At a high level, both teams competing will know to play possession and know how to defend against possession.
 
sockma said:
While I believe possession soccer is vital and necessary to win games, the ability to win 50/50 balls from strength and speed is very important. If both teams are playing possession soccer and know how to position and move into the correct space offensively and defensively, there will be plenty of 50/50 balls.

At a high level, both teams competing will know to play possession and know how to defend against possession.
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I think @sockma is just trying to point out that you still need be aggressive and physical in a possessive style of play. I completely agree with this. But, you really can't coach possession without the physicality. That would just imply the training sessions aren't run with the proper intensity. Players need to understand how to make quick, good decisions in a possessive style of play. You can't learn how to do that if you're not being pressed hard in training sessions. They go hand in hand. This is a stark contrast to training sessions that emphasize a direct style of play. Those coaches might emphasize fitness with no ball. This is why you'll a lot of teams just booting the ball.
 
Welp, here we are again. Mexico put a beating on our WNT. Our attacking players are so one dimensional...big straight forward/direct fast, with little to no finesse. Their predictability makes them relatively easy to defend. Rose is the only one who can show flashes of that a times, but those flashes aren't flashing as often these days. We need to get away from only the big bulky giant thigh players and go with more finesse players who bring skills and unpredictability to the game. If I were coaching I would cut half of them (I'm looking at you first Horan) and bring in new interesting players with high soccer IQs. Not that we tend to build that profile in today's youth soccer win at all costs mentality. Don't see this getting better any time soon until changes are made at the youth level.
 
Highlander said:
Welp, here we are again. Mexico put a beating on our WNT. Our attacking players are so one dimensional...big straight forward/direct fast, with little to no finesse. Their predictability makes them relatively easy to defend. Rose is the only one who can show flashes of that a times, but those flashes aren't flashing as often these days. We need to get away from only the big bulky giant thigh players and go with more finesse players who bring skills and unpredictability to the game. If I were coaching I would cut half of them (I'm looking at you first Horan) and bring in new interesting players with high soccer IQs. Not that we tend to build that profile in today's youth soccer win at all costs mentality. Don't see this getting better any time soon until changes are made at the youth level.
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I would like to see these two players be included in US rosters and play. First is Jordynn Dudley. Physically and athletically she fits the typical model, but is able to read the game, make intelligent and selfless plays, makes runs that are not in straight lines, switches positions up top during the game , and scores. Albeit quite a few other things I can say. The second is Quincy McMahon. She is a great defender whose ability to to connect, attack and create options is fun to watch. As a defender she is explosive in closing players down and winning the ball.
 
The issue with Rose Lavelle isn't so much Rose as the other 9 around her
If you had Rose play with Spain I believe you would see something different.
It's an issue of what the US recruits and brings to camps. There are other players that have that potential, but they usually passed over.

There are more kids who have the capability to play smarter than the standard of the US players and decent percent of them have the ability to play for other countries. This is something the US has to pay a bit more attnetion to with how they are picking at the youth level.
In fact, the US sent a gentle warning to all the pool players last year reminding them to be careful about where they choose to play because they would have go back to FIFA to request a change in sporting nationality should they decide to change. It read like if you pick another country and want to play for the US you have appeal to FIFA and there is no guarantee FIFA will approve.
 
Orangeteam said:
This is something the US has to pay a bit more attnetion to with how they are picking at the youth level.
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One of the advantage of the men's side (even though the pickings on that end are lighter). They know where to look: either Europe or in the MLS Academies. The problem there is transitioning the U20s to pro side opportunities, given the low salary opportunities in the US and the restrictions into Europe based on immigration laws.

On the women's side scouting is a real problem. The European academies and the professional opportunities in the US don't leave that many opportunities for the olders. For the 18-22 college is one big cesspool of a mess. For the u18, you are really beholden to the clubs and how they chose to build out the teams. It's easier if you have an academy track, but given it will be very small, it will involve peeling away girls from the college track (which may cause a loss of talent opportunities). Don't really see a way out of the scouting problem for the US which will get worse regardless of which way they go and time moves on. Just doing better doesn't really help either because unlike the boys in the academies there isn't a consistent style which all these pools play in or a consistent type of player the pools select for.
 
Grace T. said:
On the women's side scouting is a real problem. The European academies and the professional opportunities in the US don't leave that many opportunities for the olders. For the 18-22 college is one big cesspool of a mess. For the u18, you are really beholden to the clubs and how they chose to build out the teams. It's easier if you have an academy track, but given it will be very small, it will involve peeling away girls from the college track (which may cause a loss of talent opportunities). Don't really see a way out of the scouting problem for the US which will get worse regardless of which way they go and time moves on. Just doing better doesn't really help either because unlike the boys in the academies there isn't a consistent style which all these pools play in or a consistent type of player the pools select for.
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A former US Soccer exec told a very talented player in NorCal that "she was playing a game technically and mentally in a way that no one else could keep up with and that would be a problem as she entered the YNT pools because they don't know how to work the players like you."
I do film and onsite scouting for this kids, and several others for a another country's federation so I hear some interesting stuff.

This problem has been known for a long time, it didn't just start a few years ago.
And the kid above is just and example, there are more of them being told the same thing. Alot of talent potentially going to waste.
 
Orangeteam said:
A former US Soccer exec told a very talented player in NorCal that "she was playing a game technically and mentally in a way that no one else could keep up with and that would be a problem as she entered the YNT pools because they don't know how to work the players like you."
I do film and onsite scouting for this kids, and several others for a another country's federation so I hear some interesting stuff.

This problem has been known for a long time, it didn't just start a few years ago.
And the kid above is just and example, there are more of them being told the same thing. Alot of talent potentially going to waste.
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1 thing that's definitely not happening on the boys side....the main reason besides size that the boys get turned away from at the academy is speed of play.

Where the boys academy problems are is that talent is being lost at the younger end (since they don't start until middle school....ton of talented kids playing Latino league for example that just don't get picked up because they aren't playing at a club like strikers or their parents can't afford even TFA and by U13 they haven't developed enough to the point where they are pickable) and the older end U20 (since there's no real pathway from U20 to get actual minutes on MLS...our second division teams are too far and few between and don't have the salary to make it a living wage).
 
Highlander said:
My experience from watching is that 95% of the ECNL teams (and other leagues and even at the college level) just try to bring in the best athletes they can and try to force the ball up the field as fast as possible. There are some exceptions of course ( SD Surf being one of them ).
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Absolutely correct. The quality of technical ability in ECNL is quite embarrassing IMO. I'm sick of watching ping pong kickball between the half-spaces. I also agree about SD Surf being an exception.
 
Orangeteam said:
this thread came to mind twice today
-The U19s lost to Spain 0-3 this morning.
-The ECNL Cont Tire showcase event today was tough to watch. The announcer mentioned that ECNL was the best youth development in the world.
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The U20s looked better (though v S Korea, not Spain). Still, there were 11 players on the U20 roster that could have been on the U19 roster. Any 2005s or 2006s, right?

Savy King, Gisele T, Riley Jackson, Claire Hutton, etc. would have made a difference, I think.
 
Orangeteam said:
this thread came to mind twice today
-The U19s lost to Spain 0-3 this morning.
-The ECNL Cont Tire showcase event today was tough to watch. The announcer mentioned that ECNL was the best youth development in the world.
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As a whole, the U19's looked way too big and meaty to have a good chance against Spain.
 
fms said:
The U20s looked better (though v S Korea, not Spain). Still, there were 11 players on the U20 roster that could have been on the U19 roster. Any 2005s or 2006s, right?

Savy King, Gisele T, Riley Jackson, Claire Hutton, etc. would have made a difference, I think.
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I think the game result would have been better, or at least not as bad.
But, Spain had 65% possession which is pretty loud.
Spain had 6 shots on target. US had 0. Spain had 10 corner kicks. US had 0.

The US still looks the same across the board, from the younger U's to the older. Play balls higher than the kneecap becuase you don't have a structure or position discpline that allows for several options. Those balls go to players who's first touch isn't the strongest. Result is turnover.
 
Time to revisit this post I made after the World Cup. Wow - was I wrong on this one.
Highlander said:
Amazing job by Spain today in the World Cup final. Honestly the best technical and tactical ball I have ever seen from a women's team...that first half was special. Could/should have been 4-0 at the half.

Which brings me to my point about ECNL - do any of you think your kid's clubs/coaches are truly trying to build the technical and tactical proficiency that we see from Spain? My experience from watching is that 95% of the ECNL teams (and other leagues and even at the college level) just try to bring in the best athletes they can and try to force the ball up the field as fast as possible. There are some exceptions of course ( SD Surf being one of them ).

Thinking from a USWNT perspective IMHO we need to rethink how things are done at the youth level...not sure how to do that, but after watching Spain today and the USWNT and many ECNL and college games it's obvious this isn't going to get better any time soon. The Spains of the world are just too technical, too tactical, too well coached for them to be beat by better athletes alone.

Simply as a fan of watching my kid play, I would like to see more teams take a better tactical approach to the game and focus on technical players as much as they do athletes (you need both!).

Anyway, awesome job by Spain! So well done! They brought the women's game to an entirely new level of play.
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Time to revisit my initial post after the World Cup debacle.

I was wrong about our team not being technical/tactical enough. What I think now is that World Cup team was dominated by big personalities that were way past their prime and had a weak coach who let them do whatever they want. A toxic mix. Ok, that said, I still think Spain took women's soccer to a new technical/tactical level - that said, their failure at the olympics shows you how hard it is to stay at the top!

I have to give HUGE props to Coach Emma Hayes. I honestly couldn't have imagined that a coach could make that big of a difference. Players who I didn't rate at the World Cup (the entire attacking half of the team) are now looking great, putting in awesome effort and just making me proud to see them represent the USA.

I should have considered the toxic mess of a team that was. I remember reading things from the younger players about how horrible an experience it was and how lonely they felt. That is a sign of poor leadership from both veteran players and coaches. Sad it came to that but stoked to see the team where it is at now.

Coaches out there - take note of what is happening! You can make a huge difference in the lives of your players!

One last thing - Girma is the best center back I have ever seen. We need a "Girma" on the USMNT!!!!
 
Highlander said:
Time to revisit this post I made after the World Cup. Wow - was I wrong on this one.


Time to revisit my initial post after the World Cup debacle.

I was wrong about our team not being technical/tactical enough. What I think now is that World Cup team was dominated by big personalities that were way past their prime and had a weak coach who let them do whatever they want. A toxic mix. Ok, that said, I still think Spain took women's soccer to a new technical/tactical level - that said, their failure at the olympics shows you how hard it is to stay at the top!

I have to give HUGE props to Coach Emma Hayes. I honestly couldn't have imagined that a coach could make that big of a difference. Players who I didn't rate at the World Cup (the entire attacking half of the team) are now looking great, putting in awesome effort and just making me proud to see them represent the USA.

I should have considered the toxic mess of a team that was. I remember reading things from the younger players about how horrible an experience it was and how lonely they felt. That is a sign of poor leadership from both veteran players and coaches. Sad it came to that but stoked to see the team where it is at now.

Coaches out there - take note of what is happening! You can make a huge difference in the lives of your players!

One last thing - Girma is the best center back I have ever seen. We need a "Girma" on the USMNT!!!!
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It was definitely a coaching issue, not having Pugh (Swanson), an unhealthy Lavelle, and playing Horan at the 10 rather than the 6/8 position. I don't see it as a player issue because those same players were very successful under Jill Ellis. Trinity Rodman is definitely a better team player under Emma Hayes. Hayes knows how to inspire and utilize players correctly.

Girma is young and already the best defender in the world.
 
Highlander said:
Time to revisit this post I made after the World Cup. Wow - was I wrong on this one.


Time to revisit my initial post after the World Cup debacle.

I was wrong about our team not being technical/tactical enough. What I think now is that World Cup team was dominated by big personalities that were way past their prime and had a weak coach who let them do whatever they want. A toxic mix. Ok, that said, I still think Spain took women's soccer to a new technical/tactical level - that said, their failure at the olympics shows you how hard it is to stay at the top!

I have to give HUGE props to Coach Emma Hayes. I honestly couldn't have imagined that a coach could make that big of a difference. Players who I didn't rate at the World Cup (the entire attacking half of the team) are now looking great, putting in awesome effort and just making me proud to see them represent the USA.

I should have considered the toxic mess of a team that was. I remember reading things from the younger players about how horrible an experience it was and how lonely they felt. That is a sign of poor leadership from both veteran players and coaches. Sad it came to that but stoked to see the team where it is at now.

Coaches out there - take note of what is happening! You can make a huge difference in the lives of your players!

One last thing - Girma is the best center back I have ever seen. We need a "Girma" on the USMNT!!!!
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Think Spains loss was the worst day they have ever had on the field as a team. It does not represent what they are and what they have done, nor what they will do. It was a momentary failure that hurt. The next time Spain plays Brazil it will be much different. In the positive I think playing Brazil is a better match up for the USWNT.
 
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