I noticed not even a Pandemic could take down Pay to Play...

Giesbock said:
And parents of above-par players won’t? From your statement, you must think your player is above-par.
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Nope, both of my kids are maybe average on a good day but they dont play for big clubs. You could even call them sub par.

Over the years on both my son and daughters team we have seen family's come and go from top teams and top flights who really never fit the part.
 
Chalklines said:
Nope, both of my kids are maybe average on a good day but they dont play for big clubs. You could even call them sub par.

Over the years on both my son and daughters team we have seen family's come and go from top teams and top flights who really never fit the part.
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I jumped to the wrong conclusion. Sorry bout that!

my kid came up from rec AYSO through their extra program and then due to daddy coach syndrome she and others formed a training squad with no club affiliation for 2 years.They used to occasionally scrimmage club teams and wondered what the fuss was all about..
 
My thoughts as a parent whose kid was developed in another system on daddy ball vs. pay to play:
Daddy ball will eventually win because pay to play will not be sustainable over the long term. I’d say that by the time our kids are grandparents, pay to play will be rendered obsolete. By then we’ll have a couple generations of soccer players and a better soccer culture and folks are gonna balk at paying the high pay to play fees. In TJ, 95% of parents forgo putting their kids in the Xolo’s pay to play program ($30 per month) and opt for a ghetto ass version of daddy ball ($3 per month & a occasional after game snack).

My kid has benefited greatly from daddy ball. And yes, the dad’s favored their kids on every team that she has played on. However, she still received more than enough playing time because of the vast soccer culture in TJ. So for the kids like my daughter that ALWAYS rode the pine, they were invited to play in other games to get minutes.

So, I predict pay to play will become obsolete after we have a few more generations of players under our belt AND daddy ball will be much more palatable once our soccer culture improves because it will provide more opportunities for bench riders to play.
 
MacDre said:
My thoughts as a parent whose kid was developed in another system on daddy ball vs. pay to play:
Daddy ball will eventually win because pay to play will not be sustainable over the long term. I’d say that by the time our kids are grandparents, pay to play will be rendered obsolete. By then we’ll have a couple generations of soccer players and a better soccer culture and folks are gonna balk at paying the high pay to play fees. In TJ, 95% of parents forgo putting their kids in the Xolo’s pay to play program ($30 per month) and opt for a ghetto ass version of daddy ball ($3 per month & a occasional after game snack).

My kid has benefited greatly from daddy ball. And yes, the dad’s favored their kids on every team that she has played on. However, she still received more than enough playing time because of the vast soccer culture in TJ. So for the kids like my daughter that ALWAYS rode the pine, they were invited to play in other games to get minutes.

So, I predict pay to play will become obsolete after we have a few more generations of players under our belt AND daddy ball will be much more palatable once our soccer culture improves because it will provide more opportunities for bench riders to play.
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Wow, that long?
 
One more thing, I hate it when I hear about the financial opportunities in the alphabet leagues.

My kid wasn’t offered anything by Surf or Lamorinda. I felt a lil’ love from Deza though. When I inquired about assistance, I felt most were evasive. I was offended by the process and my kid will never play club.

I also think the claims that if a kid is talented they wont have to pay is complete BS. The kids that need assistance should be evaluated when they are around 6 years old not at 14 when they have been excluded from the game...pure unadulterated BS!!!
 
MacDre said:
One more thing, I hate it when I hear about the financial opportunities in the alphabet leagues.

My kid wasn’t offered anything by Surf or Lamorinda. I felt a lil’ love from Deza though. When I inquired about assistance, I felt most were evasive. I was offended by the process and my kid will never play club.

I also think the claims that if a kid is talented they wont have to pay is complete BS. The kids that need assistance should be evaluated when they are around 6 years old not at 14 when they have been excluded from the game...pure unadulterated BS!!!
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Maps old club teams always helped families out with their goats who needed a little help. I 100% agree that 6 or 7 year olds need help.
 
MacDre said:
My thoughts as a parent whose kid was developed in another system on daddy ball vs. pay to play:
Daddy ball will eventually win because pay to play will not be sustainable over the long term. I’d say that by the time our kids are grandparents, pay to play will be rendered obsolete. By then we’ll have a couple generations of soccer players and a better soccer culture and folks are gonna balk at paying the high pay to play fees. In TJ, 95% of parents forgo putting their kids in the Xolo’s pay to play program ($30 per month) and opt for a ghetto ass version of daddy ball ($3 per month & a occasional after game snack).

My kid has benefited greatly from daddy ball. And yes, the dad’s favored their kids on every team that she has played on. However, she still received more than enough playing time because of the vast soccer culture in TJ. So for the kids like my daughter that ALWAYS rode the pine, they were invited to play in other games to get minutes.

So, I predict pay to play will become obsolete after we have a few more generations of players under our belt AND daddy ball will be much more palatable once our soccer culture improves because it will provide more opportunities for bench riders to play.
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Daddy ball works in TJ in part because the daddies played ball as kids.

In suburbs here, it’s hard to get parents to volunteer as coach, even for U6. They are so full of self doubt about soccer skills, they forget that it’s play. But they have cash, and writing a check is easy.

Once more parents know enough that they aren’t scared of a 5 year old with a ball, it will get better. Even one generation should put a huge dent in pay to play for youngers. HS will take longer.
 
MacDre said:
My thoughts as a parent whose kid was developed in another system on daddy ball vs. pay to play:
Daddy ball will eventually win because pay to play will not be sustainable over the long term. I’d say that by the time our kids are grandparents, pay to play will be rendered obsolete. By then we’ll have a couple generations of soccer players and a better soccer culture and folks are gonna balk at paying the high pay to play fees. In TJ, 95% of parents forgo putting their kids in the Xolo’s pay to play program ($30 per month) and opt for a ghetto ass version of daddy ball ($3 per month & a occasional after game snack).

My kid has benefited greatly from daddy ball. And yes, the dad’s favored their kids on every team that she has played on. However, she still received more than enough playing time because of the vast soccer culture in TJ. So for the kids like my daughter that ALWAYS rode the pine, they were invited to play in other games to get minutes.

So, I predict pay to play will become obsolete after we have a few more generations of players under our belt AND daddy ball will be much more palatable once our soccer culture improves because it will provide more opportunities for bench riders to play.
Click to expand...

Part of the reason club ball exploded though was because of the numerous deficiencies in AYSO and other rec problems. One, as you correctly point out, is the lack of knowledge by coaches. That will be corrected over time as our kids have kids and coach rec programs. But my kids first coach on their first training session spent the time teaching them how on the whistle they should line up in a proper 3 point tackling stance and rush over the "line of scrimmage" to attack the ball.

Another problem though is the system is not tiered. When I was growing up, the future pro was expected to play on the same team as the handicapped kid. That was bad for the future pro (because if no one can pass you the ball you don't develop). It was also bad for the handicapped kid (because kids are smart, they want to win, they know who will lose the ball, so they don't pass to that kid, and that kid feels really bad about it and doesn't want to play). AYSO has become more tiered with Extras, AllStars/Select, and VIP, but it's still not a true tiered system like they have in the UK or Spanish rec. Reason my younger hopped to club was because he wanted to keep playing, he asked all his AYSO teammates to train but we got responses from no thanks we're doing other sports, or no thanks we have Disneyland annual passes and need to get back there. We had Disneyland annual passes too, but by then the kids had outgrown them and wanted to do other things.

Until they fix the tier problem, AYSO will still have issues. It's gotten better with the additional level creations, but even those are miered in a mixture of politics, volunteer credits, and the hunt for fast kids (instead of soccer players).
 
Grace T. said:
Part of the reason club ball exploded though was because of the numerous deficiencies in AYSO and other rec problems. One, as you correctly point out, is the lack of knowledge by coaches. That will be corrected over time as our kids have kids and coach rec programs. But my kids first coach on their first training session spent the time teaching them how on the whistle they should line up in a proper 3 point tackling stance and rush over the "line of scrimmage" to attack the ball.

Another problem though is the system is not tiered. When I was growing up, the future pro was expected to play on the same team as the handicapped kid. That was bad for the future pro (because if no one can pass you the ball you don't develop). It was also bad for the handicapped kid (because kids are smart, they want to win, they know who will lose the ball, so they don't pass to that kid, and that kid feels really bad about it and doesn't want to play). AYSO has become more tiered with Extras, AllStars/Select, and VIP, but it's still not a true tiered system like they have in the UK or Spanish rec. Reason my younger hopped to club was because he wanted to keep playing, he asked all his AYSO teammates to train but we got responses from no thanks we're doing other sports, or no thanks we have Disneyland annual passes and need to get back there. We had Disneyland annual passes too, but by then the kids had outgrown them and wanted to do other things.

Until they fix the tier problem, AYSO will still have issues. It's gotten better with the additional level creations, but even those are miered in a mixture of politics, volunteer credits, and the hunt for fast kids (instead of soccer players).
Click to expand...
The tiers problem is hard for AYSO to fix.

Some of the people who run the divisions are used to their kid being the big fish in a small pond. They like watching their kid score 40 goals a season before he goes off to select.

Go to a tiered system, and that same boy gets the ball stripped 4 times in a row, because his opponent is just as good.

There’s also a coaching shortage problem. On average, the sons of coaches are more likely to be put in a higher tier. Once 14 out of 20 coaches are in the upper tiers, who is left to coach your lower tier?
 
Grace T. said:
Part of the reason club ball exploded though was because of the numerous deficiencies in AYSO and other rec problems. One, as you correctly point out, is the lack of knowledge by coaches. That will be corrected over time as our kids have kids and coach rec programs. But my kids first coach on their first training session spent the time teaching them how on the whistle they should line up in a proper 3 point tackling stance and rush over the "line of scrimmage" to attack the ball.

Another problem though is the system is not tiered. When I was growing up, the future pro was expected to play on the same team as the handicapped kid. That was bad for the future pro (because if no one can pass you the ball you don't develop). It was also bad for the handicapped kid (because kids are smart, they want to win, they know who will lose the ball, so they don't pass to that kid, and that kid feels really bad about it and doesn't want to play). AYSO has become more tiered with Extras, AllStars/Select, and VIP, but it's still not a true tiered system like they have in the UK or Spanish rec. Reason my younger hopped to club was because he wanted to keep playing, he asked all his AYSO teammates to train but we got responses from no thanks we're doing other sports, or no thanks we have Disneyland annual passes and need to get back there. We had Disneyland annual passes too, but by then the kids had outgrown them and wanted to do other things.

Until they fix the tier problem, AYSO will still have issues. It's gotten better with the additional level creations, but even those are miered in a mixture of politics, volunteer credits, and the hunt for fast kids (instead of soccer players).
Click to expand...
I have very limited experience with AYSO. But, my kid used to go to Futbol Factory in Chula Vista. When Futbol Factory became DV7 they took over an AYSO 2007 team that I think was called Matrix. The team was very athletic but wasn’t very technical. They tied So Cal Blues at the Manchester City Cup.

Many of the parents were satisfied with their kids doing toe kicks etc. so the star 2007 keeper and my kid opted out.

So, from my limited personal experience, I agree that AYSO could and should be a bit better.
 
Giesbock said:
Maybe this is counter intuitive or maybe just plain dumb but what if NFL franchises ( the other futbol) were to take NWSL under wing, help them support youth farm /academy system. Build quality of play, build appeal with female viewers, create new sponsorship and ad revenue streams.
The only difference in EPL is that the men’s team plays the same game as the women...

totally off? Or?
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Actually I think that's a genius idea, but would likely never happen. NFL has a horrible image when it comes to the treatment of women (ie prevalence of player violence towards women). NFL could improve that image by actually doing something substantive by supporting women's soccer instead of just wearing pink socks for a few games. I do find some irony in the fact that players are kneeling in protest of police violence while having their own internal problem with violence towards women. "Do as I say, not as I do".
 
@MacDre On clubs our DD has been on there has been assistance provided by the club for players in need and there have also been families on the team that have also pitched in via fundraising, or sponsorship, etc. If you are utilizing the services, shouldn’t you pay for it? Nothing is free.

I disagree with you regarding pay-to-play going away. 30+ years ago when we played youth club soccer it was pay-to-play. It is even more $$$ today. I actually believe costs will at minimum keep up with inflation and then some. Pay-to-play will go away if there are true Academy’s that are fully funded by the Pro Clubs and if there was a true Pro/Rel structure like in other countries...wont happen until they can make money on it...Model is not set-up this way...no Pro/Rel in MLS...USL wont get a crack...on the girls side (for most) the dream in the US is not pro, but college.

Your DD is with Xolo and I believe the Feminina MX Team...costs subsidized by the Pro Clubs, right? That model does not really exist in the US. Good for your fam to be in this model and get quality coaching/development.

The flip side of this is the family who asks for help but shows to practice in a new Mercedes/Lexus SUV...seen this happen twice. Makes you scratch your head a bit...There is a difference between not wanting to pay and can’t pay.

Daddy/Mommy ball is like Daddy/Mommy teacher...not sure this is the best way to develop players or students.
 
dad4 said:
The tiers problem is hard for AYSO to fix.

Some of the people who run the divisions are used to their kid being the big fish in a small pond. They like watching their kid score 40 goals a season before he goes off to select.

Go to a tiered system, and that same boy gets the ball stripped 4 times in a row, because his opponent is just as good.

There’s also a coaching shortage problem. On average, the sons of coaches are more likely to be put in a higher tier. Once 14 out of 20 coaches are in the upper tiers, who is left to coach your lower tier?
Click to expand...
As long as the NCAA is involved in Soccer, there will be a need for pay to play. Daddy ball is admirable and trust me, I prefer the grassroots approach. As long as their is/are organization(s) in place that assists in placement of kids into college programs and enables access to education $$s, ECNL, GA, and others will remain firmly entrenched. No way of getting around it.

As I look around at the group of parents that are involved with the club soccer scene in AZ, I wouldn't trust one of them to develop any player of mine. They don't have the time, the expertise, and the background to do it. Their only way of contributing to soccer development is through their wallets.

For a short time in NJ, my daughter was coached by a dad who played D1 Soccer. He was good for a little while. The girls soon outgrew his capacity. He knew it and we moved (including him) to a club with a full time professional dutch staff. Best thing we ever did for both kids. Dutch soccer is wonderful, immersing players in the style, even at the expense of losing games. We were told we would lose early and to be quiet and accept losing until the players understood how to play. To this day, best club we've ever played on. It's not an ECNL club, it's not a GA club, it wasn't a DA club - and never had a desire to be in those leagues.
 
MacDre said:
So, I predict pay to play will become obsolete after we have a few more generations of players under our belt AND daddy ball will be much more palatable once our soccer culture improves because it will provide more opportunities for bench riders to play.
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I think in America the thought of a federal grant to fund soccer (like what was so successful in Iceland, Norway, etc) is probably a non-starter, even though just a fraction of the F-35 budget would pay for US Soccer for All many times over. What we'll probably see is a consortium of brands making a pool of money to subsidize high-quality coaching, alongside increased ticket sales from the national teams, as part of a larger marketing budget + guaranteed kit sales.
 
happy9 said:
As long as the NCAA is involved in Soccer, there will be a need for pay to play. Daddy ball is admirable and trust me, I prefer the grassroots approach. As long as their is/are organization(s) in place that assists in placement of kids into college programs and enables access to education $$s, ECNL, GA, and others will remain firmly entrenched. No way of getting around it.

As I look around at the group of parents that are involved with the club soccer scene in AZ, I wouldn't trust one of them to develop any player of mine. They don't have the time, the expertise, and the background to do it. Their only way of contributing to soccer development is through their wallets.

For a short time in NJ, my daughter was coached by a dad who played D1 Soccer. He was good for a little while. The girls soon outgrew his capacity. He knew it and we moved (including him) to a club with a full time professional dutch staff. Best thing we ever did for both kids. Dutch soccer is wonderful, immersing players in the style, even at the expense of losing games. We were told we would lose early and to be quiet and accept losing until the players understood how to play. To this day, best club we've ever played on. It's not an ECNL club, it's not a GA club, it wasn't a DA club - and never had a desire to be in those leagues.
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For the 100,000 or so kids who are chasing D1 NCAA money, sure.

But that’s a tiny fraction of the total kids who play club soccer. U-Little bronze/copper parents are not looking for information about about scholarships, they just want their kid to play. And there are more kids in U-Little bronze/copper than all the letter leagues put together.

Ultimately, I think tiered AYSO will give club a challenge in the copper-silver range for u6-u14. If they can actually bring themselves to do it, that is.
 
Woobie06 said:
@MacDre On clubs our DD has been on there has been assistance provided by the club for players in need and there have also been families on the team that have also pitched in via fundraising, or sponsorship, etc. If you are utilizing the services, shouldn’t you pay for it? Nothing is free.

I disagree with you regarding pay-to-play going away. 30+ years ago when we played youth club soccer it was pay-to-play. It is even more $$$ today. I actually believe costs will at minimum keep up with inflation and then some. Pay-to-play will go away if there are true Academy’s that are fully funded by the Pro Clubs and if there was a true Pro/Rel structure like in other countries...wont happen until they can make money on it...Model is not set-up this way...no Pro/Rel in MLS...USL wont get a crack...on the girls side (for most) the dream in the US is not pro, but college.

Your DD is with Xolo and I believe the Feminina MX Team...costs subsidized by the Pro Clubs, right? That model does not really exist in the US. Good for your fam to be in this model and get quality coaching/development.

The flip side of this is the family who asks for help but shows to practice in a new Mercedes/Lexus SUV...seen this happen twice. Makes you scratch your head a bit...There is a difference between not wanting to pay and can’t pay.

Daddy/Mommy ball is like Daddy/Mommy teacher...not sure this is the best way to develop players or students.
Click to expand...
Sounds like your kid has been involved with great teams. Nothing is free but I think a business should provide value. I don’t see much value being provided by club soccer. Club soccer kinds disgusts me because it’s a vehicle for privilege kids to buy their way into schools that they aren’t otherwise qualified to get into.

I also believe that it takes a village to raise a child. Some kids have bad parents and I feel privileged folks like you and I should be just as concerned with helping the disenfranchised as getting our kids into Stanford.
 
MacDre said:
Sounds like your kid has been involved with great teams. Nothing is free but I think a business should provide value. I don’t see much value being provided by club soccer. Club soccer kinds disgusts me because it’s a vehicle for privilege kids to buy their way into schools that they aren’t otherwise qualified to get into.

I also believe that it takes a village to raise a child. Some kids have bad parents and I feel privileged folks like you and I should be just as concerned with helping the disenfranchised as getting our kids into Stanford.
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Hey MacDre, take over bro. I'm done with all this. You were gone for a while and said no more but I see your back. Addiction? I'm going cold turkey today bro.
 
Soccerhelper said:
Hey MacDre, take over bro. I'm done with all this. You were gone for a while and said no more but I see your back. Addiction? I'm going cold turkey today bro.
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No, I’m done too. Not really an addiction. This forum just kinda reminds me of being 12yrs old playing sand lot ball and arguing and debating with other kids. Being an adult all the time is overrated and boring homie.
 
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