I noticed not even a Pandemic could take down Pay to Play...

[Emma]

I get it. But now you’re saying “what could have been if they had the training.” That’s true for many things, not just soccer. The point is none of these players deserve a free ride now, and that’s that.

I don't think you were addressing whether someone deserves training for free. You were addressing whether finance kept any "potential" goats out of the game. I was pointing out that finance does keep great players out and prevents them from reaching their full potential.

This is what you said: "If your child is a GOAT, they won’t need to be paying $3k a year. Any coach would take a GOAT and give them a scholarship. Find them a ride to practice, games, etc. There is truly no excuse. The only players being left out are the ones not good enough. This is all a myth. I challenge any of you to find me a true GOAT, right now, that is not playing because the parents can’t afford it. I know players that were GOATS at U8, were the fastest and biggest, and they never got the training and are no longer playing. Players drop off and become obsolete, doesn’t mean they were too poor to afford good training."

As to the deserving...yes, currently, only the pay to play kids are deserving of becoming GOATS or reaching full potentials because we don't have a centralized system that will help kids develop without all the extra costs. A free and serious afterschool sports program starting in elementary school might close this gap and make high school soccer more exciting too. It would probably prevent diabetes and reduce the cost of health care for us too.

 

[Giesbock]

If your child is a GOAT, they won’t need to be paying $3k a year. Any coach would take a GOAT and give them a scholarship. Find them a ride to practice, games, etc. There is truly no excuse. The only players being left out are the ones not good enough. This is all a myth. I challenge any of you to find me a true GOAT, right now, that is not playing because the parents can’t afford it. I know players that were GOATS at U8, were the fastest and biggest, and they never got the training and are no longer playing. Players drop off and become obsolete, doesn’t mean they were too poor to afford good training.

No such thing as a 7 year old that’s Greatest of all time. Throwing around a ridiculous superlative!

 

[Soccerhelper]

No such thing as a 7 year old that’s Greatest of all time. Throwing around a ridiculous superlative!

 

[Giesbock]

If your child is a GOAT, they won’t need to be paying $3k a year. Any coach would take a GOAT and give them a scholarship. Find them a ride to practice, games, etc. There is truly no excuse. The only players being left out are the ones not good enough. This is all a myth. I challenge any of you to find me a true GOAT, right now, that is not playing because the parents can’t afford it. I know players that were GOATS at U8, were the fastest and biggest, and they never got the training and are no longer playing. Players drop off and become obsolete, doesn’t mean they were too poor to afford good training.

yeah that is cool vintage video of The GOAT. But he wasn’t that at age 7. He became that with intense, singular focus over years.

There are 7 year olds all over the US in rec leagues that do that every time they step on the field. They are not GOATs is all I’m saying.

 

[46n2]

Not sure about this one, not all club teams have "Free Best Player funds"
I can say that our team is beyond stacked and Im positive that everyone pays, there may be some help for one family but thats their thing not mine to worry about.

 

[Soccerhelper]

Not sure about this one, not all club teams have "Free Best Player funds"
I can say that our team is beyond stacked and Im positive that everyone pays, there may be some help for one family but thats their thing not mine to worry about.

I agree. Each club is different and some coaches have a few scholarships available. The top youth boys never pay a dime.

 

[46n2]

Agreed. His comments actually caused quite a negative ripple effect. You had middle school girls staying up until 11 and 12 o'clock at night on a school night because they were too afraid to miss practice, but yet they still wanted to get all of their homework done. One of the many reasons we are no longer with that club!

on my dear , homework to 1-2 am is a normal thing, please don't blame soccer there.....there is plenty of hours to burn after school.

 

[dad4]

on my dear , homework to 1-2 am is a normal thing, please don't blame soccer there.....there is plenty of hours to burn after school.

1-2 am for middle school homework? That's not normal.

Middle school homework shouldn't take more than 2 hours, even at a highly academic school.

 

[46n2]

I agree. Each club is different and some coaches have a few scholarships available. The top youth boys never pay a dime.

Girls and boys doesn't matter , but thats a slippery slope.

Some clubs make you pay for just the shorts , they they own you, no extra outside activities, if coach hears you playing in a indoor league or pickup over the weekend, you don't get to play next game. You see very quickly have fast they drop your kid. Please .....they feel this overwhelming urge to make your kids feel like they did something bad.

Theres plenty of parent that are glad to pay with top seeded kids on a team, just so they can have the liberty to do what they want.

 

[Giesbock]

Granted, Messi had gifts of foot speed, agility, probably had a soccer ball with him in his crib...
the real discussion (i think) is whether there are awesome raw talented kids who get drowned out by richer kids who can afford to go on with their club careers without having to apply for financial aid. No doubt that happens, maybe even more frequently in affluent OC.

That’s why I’ve said before that the right path might be to chuck all the club gear, prestige, expensive trips across the country, and instead gather a few like minded families to pay a trainer/coach to focus on the fundamental skills. Cheap compared to the club route and player comes out of it ready to rumble.

 

[46n2]

1-2 am for middle school homework? That's not normal.

Middle school homework shouldn't take more than 2 hours, even at a highly academic school.

High school with social life, work, sports, homework is done late late at night, quite normal in my city.

 

[Giesbock]

Granted, Messi had gifts of foot speed, agility, probably had a soccer ball with him in his crib...
the real discussion (i think) is whether there are awesome raw talented kids who get drowned out by richer kids who can afford to go on with their club careers without having to apply for financial aid. No doubt that happens, maybe even more frequently in affluent OC.

That’s why I’ve said before that the right path might be to chuck all the club gear, prestige, expensive trips across the country, and instead gather a few like minded families to pay a trainer/coach to focus on the fundamental skills. Cheap compared to the club route and player comes out of it ready to rumble.

 

[notintheface]

Ok, it only took 6 pages to start comparing kids to Messi, that's an improvement over the last time this discussion came around.

Your kid is not Messi. Your kid is not going to be Messi. Your kid is going to be unbelievably lucky to be Johan Gomez or Madison Perez. Do not pressure your kid into a work ethic that will only serve to burn him or her out. Let them train, definitely, but also let them experience life. Anyone here who hasn't read the story of Todd Marinovich should read up on what a parent can mistakenly wind up creating.

 

[Anon9]

Ok, it only took 6 pages to start comparing kids to Messi, that's an improvement over the last time this discussion came around.

Your kid is not Messi. Your kid is not going to be Messi. Your kid is going to be unbelievably lucky to be Johan Gomez or Madison Perez. Do not pressure your kid into a work ethic that will only serve to burn him or her out. Let them train, definitely, but also let them experience life. Anyone here who hasn't read the story of Todd Marinovich should read up on what a parent can mistakenly wind up creating.

Or read Cristiano Ronaldo’s story and how he trained 25 hours a week.

 

[Messi>CR7]

Granted, Messi had gifts of foot speed, agility, probably had a soccer ball with him in his crib...
the real discussion (i think) is whether there are awesome raw talented kids who get drowned out by richer kids who can afford to go on with their club careers without having to apply for financial aid. No doubt that happens, maybe even more frequently in affluent OC.

That’s why I’ve said before that the right path might be to chuck all the club gear, prestige, expensive trips across the country, and instead gather a few like minded families to pay a trainer/coach to focus on the fundamental skills. Cheap compared to the club route and player comes out of it ready to rumble.

Messi would not have turned into the GOAT if he were born in the US. No club would have paid for his HGH treatment when he was young. Imagine that, a soccer world without Messi.

I live in OC, the bubble inside the bubble as far as club soccer goes. But I know enough people to know it's a real struggle for some to meet the financial/time commitment of club soccer. A friend's U11 or U12 team in LA never had enough money for tournaments. In a few instances, my friend and one other parent paid for the tournament for the entire team just so all the kids can play. The best player on my DD's U11 team always had to leave the practice 25 minutes earlier so her mom could go to her night shift.

Regarding your last comment, I'm 100% sure my kids would lose interest very quickly if they have to train for a year without the possibility of playing in a real 11v11 match.

 

[paytoplay]

I’m not sure if I’m buying the argument that the rich kid has that much of an advantage over the poor kid. What about all those poor black kids that come from the ghetto and end up being the top basketball players or football players in the USA. How are they doing it?

You don’t understand sports very well. To get to the top in basketball you need physical size and skills. The skills are taught for free every time you step on the court. Doesn’t cost money to find a game and good competition. Soccer in this country is organized and the only good competition is behind a locked gate: the pay to play system.

 

[dad4]

I’m not sure if I’m buying the argument that the rich kid has that much of an advantage over the poor kid. What about all those poor black kids that come from the ghetto and end up being the top basketball players or football players in the USA. How are they doing it?

Basketball in cities includes a lot of free pickup games. NJB is far cheaper than club soccer. Even AAU in low income cities costs less than half what ECNL does. ( You can pay big money for AAU if you want, but there are plenty of Oakland or LA teams that play local and cost less.)

Football is done through the schools. It is awful for school budgets, but free or near free to the families.

In short, those sports charge less per kid for access to top level games.

 

[SoccerEnvy]

A good argument against pay to play is there’s a lot of talented kids that fall through the cracks because their family doesn’t have the wealth or flexibility with work to support their joining a travel team. In OC you have a lot of potential athletes that start out in rec soccer and drop out. Yeah, some are recruited and get a free ride via scholarships. But most, absolutely not. Meanwhile, on the other side of the street, little Mia goes straight to the baby Blues, pays for years of private training, has the family support and a head start to see whether she’s got enough talent to stay with the rest of the girls. The girl with two seasons of rec dropped out to do something else because she was not developed to the point where her potential could be seen. She missed out. The competition missed out on facing her. The National teams ultimately missed out.

I get it...but in your scenario, who do you think should be paying for the talented but low resource player? As it is, the clubs that we have been a part of have all had financial programs that for at least half of the fees, sometimes another fund for travel.

$350 a month is a significant amount especially for families who are just making ends meet. But it’s pricing is not unreasonable when you consider 3 practices a week, 1-2 games a weekend (preCovid), field rental, professional coaching and all the other expenses.

And don’t MLS teams fund their “academy” teams? So there is a “no pay to play” option but it is for such a small group of players.

 

[dad4]

ok some valid points that overall soccer is a bit more expensive than the other sports which have a much much bigger athlete talent pool in this country. So it makes it tougher for an average player that is poor to succeed. But if you are poor and you are a special athlete with the right work ethic the doors will be open for you and that’s my point.

Depends on where you are. I’m up in Nor Cal. There are no top level soccer clubs in Oakland/ east bay. None.

The closest is in Danville, 20 miles away through a tunnel. Or Pleasanton, over a pass. Or Marin, over a toll bridge.

If your family has no car or one car, you are not getting to practice.

It doesn’t matter that any of thise three clubs would be happy to open the door to you. You can’t get to the door.

Basketball is another story. Pickup games after school all over the place, and they are free. AAU is closer, and those teams are just as willing to make it work for a top basketball player. So top athletes in Oakland play hoops.

 

[Chalklines]

Ok, it only took 6 pages to start comparing kids to Messi, that's an improvement over the last time this discussion came around.

Your kid is not Messi. Your kid is not going to be Messi. Your kid is going to be unbelievably lucky to be Johan Gomez or Madison Perez. Do not pressure your kid into a work ethic that will only serve to burn him or her out. Let them train, definitely, but also let them experience life. Anyone here who hasn't read the story of Todd Marinovich should read up on what a parent can mistakenly wind up creating.

But Todd made. Formula worked until the drungs