ECNL Expansion and Contraction? MLS2?

[Code]

There are a number of references online in FB soccer groups that it's no longer going to be possible to have both MLS Next teams and ECNL teams in the same club next season; it's affecting more than just DeAnza. It's unclear whether the actual rule/policy change was primarily driven by one entity or the other - but it certainly appears to be a legitimate concern that people are dealing with before the upcoming season.

Are you sure it is a rule/policy driven cut? I don't see any reason that it is not just performance based. The clubs that have both, are certainly placing the top performing team in MLS Next. This leaves 2nd team in ECNL. The average ECNL and MLS Next teams are ranked very closely when compared on Soccer Rankings. It's possible the second teams are just not meeting competition level in the ECNL.

 

[Barca2021]

We'll see how true the rumors are of ECNL only wanting club first teams. Keep an eye on TBU and FC Dallas. FC Dallas has boys teams in MLS and ECNL. Tampa Bay United has an MLS and ECNL boys teams in U13-U19 and they recently joined NAL, the probable landing spot for MLS2 teams. Are either of these large clubs going to be be told to leave ECNL?

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

Are you sure it is a rule/policy driven cut? I don't see any reason that it is not just performance based.

No - not sure of much at all related to this. All I can say is that there are a number of references online where people from other teams & areas are also stating the same justification - "clubs can no longer have ECNL and MLS Next", so it's causing the expected amount of stress and concern until the reality arrives and it's either confirmed or debunked. Is it possible that all of the related chatter is only coming from teams that are being removed because of performance and others get to stay? It's certainly possible.

 

[Code]

We'll see how true the rumors are of ECNL only wanting club first teams. Keep an eye on TBU and FC Dallas. FC Dallas has boys teams in MLS and ECNL. Tampa Bay United has an MLS and ECNL boys teams in U13-U19 and they recently joined NAL, the probable landing spot for MLS2 teams. Are either of these large clubs going to be be told to leave ECNL?

These will be good examples to keep an eye on. The clubs teams are doing well in both Leagues.

 

[Grace T.]

We'll see how true the rumors are of ECNL only wanting club first teams. Keep an eye on TBU and FC Dallas. FC Dallas has boys teams in MLS and ECNL. Tampa Bay United has an MLS and ECNL boys teams in U13-U19 and they recently joined NAL, the probable landing spot for MLS2 teams. Are either of these large clubs going to be be told to leave ECNL?

FC Dallas isn't going to be particularly useful. My understanding is they have a full ECNL program (all the way down to ECRL) and the admin is separate from the club (a closer relationship than the affiliates in LAFC, but given it's an academy, they are much more likely to be given slack especially since they are otherwise "all in on ECNL"). The academies haven't decided what to do with their remainders yet, from what I understand, including the benchers that get very limited play time, and because of the NAL, will have to soon decide what to do about their preMLS Next teams.

One of the entire points of the NAL was for MLS Next teams to expressly place their second teams in it. So I think you are right Tampa Bay United is going to be very interesting. The rationale for this is the discussions have been that the MLS Next teams wanted a much more free roster interchange....so they can bring up players to MLS Next who they might want to give a chance, and allow the benchers (who due to substitution rules and rosters over 18) to get some more play time experience. I don't see how it works...either the MLS Next teams rounding out NAL will be upset the second team isn't in NAL (given already concern that without the independent clubs without MLS Next teams competition may suffer) or ECNL will be upset it's getting the third team.

 

[pops92]

On De Anza...the change with ECNL is just affecting the boys side, the girls will still play in ECNL.

On the boys side, ECNL informed De Anza that they have to play their first teams in ECNL (they currently play their second teams in ECNL and first in MLS Next) so it forced De Anza's hand to exit. Either way De Anza was going to lose ECNL status on boys as their second teams are not strong enough to compete and were likely (based on current standings) to be the club that was relegated to NPL anyways.

 

[Code]

On De Anza...the change with ECNL is just affecting the boys side, the girls will still play in ECNL.

On the boys side, ECNL informed De Anza that they have to play their first teams in ECNL (they currently play their second teams in ECNL and first in MLS Next) so it forced De Anza's hand to exit. Either way De Anza was going to lose ECNL status on boys as their second teams are not strong enough to compete and were likely (based on current standings) to be the club that was relegated to NPL anyways.

I think people are discounting the reason "why" ECNL likely told De Anza they need to put their first teams in the ECNL if they want to stay. I don't think the ECNL cares if a club enters the 1st team, 2nd team, or 3rd team; as long as the teams can compete at the standards of the league. There are other clubs with 2nd teams performing well in the ECNL, and they are not being told they need to place higher performing teams in the league. Parents are the ones obsessed with Team Order at the clubs. De Anza was most likely told if they wanted to remain in the boys ECNL they needed to enter their 1st teams because the 2nd teams are not up to standard, which is clear if you look at how they are ranked on the Soccer Rankings app. Also likely De Anza doesn't want to tell the parents the 2nd teams are not good enough for play in a top league, so instead they give a half truth reason why they are not remaining in the ECNL. Otherwise the parents on the 2nd teams are going to expect some changes; new players, new coaches, or less costs.

 

[Carlsbad7]

I think people are discounting the reason "why" ECNL likely told De Anza they need to put their first teams in the ECNL if they want to stay. I don't think the ECNL cares if a club enters the 1st team, 2nd team, or 3rd team; as long as the teams can compete at the standards of the league. There are other clubs with 2nd teams performing well in the ECNL, and they are not being told they need to place higher performing teams in the league. Parents are the ones obsessed with Team Order at the clubs. De Anza was most likely told if they wanted to remain in the boys ECNL they needed to enter their 1st teams because the 2nd teams are not up to standard, which is clear if you look at how they are ranked on the Soccer Rankings app. Also likely De Anza doesn't want to tell the parents the 2nd teams are not good enough for play in a top league, so instead they give a half truth reason why they are not remaining in the ECNL. Otherwise the parents on the 2nd teams are going to expect some changes; new players, new coaches, or less costs.

Just pointing out that if ECNL had clear ECNL to ECRL regulation rules + De Anza was being regulated based on poor performance nobody would be wondering why they dropped ECNL.

For ECNL it shouldnt matter if clubs are putting 1st or 2nd teams in to compete in their league. However if you consistantly lose say hello to ECRL.

 

[RandomSoccerFan]

De Anza was most likely told if they wanted to remain in the boys ECNL they needed to enter their 1st teams because the 2nd teams are not up to standard, which is clear if you look at how they are ranked on the Soccer Rankings app. Also likely De Anza doesn't want to tell the parents the 2nd teams are not good enough for play in a top league, so instead they give a half truth reason why they are not remaining in the ECNL.

I think you're assuming alot. It would also then have to be the same story/same situation at all the other clubs/parents that are complaining about the same things online. You believe it's a simple "didn't perform - get out", while others believe there's more to the ECNL vs. MLS, and more specifically ECNL-R vs MLS2 battle that is fighting for the same kids over the next two years, and this is an attempted power play by one (or both) of the organizations to force clubs to choose a side.

Either of these situations could turn out to have some validity, and in fact they both can be true at the same time.

 

[Code]

I think you're assuming alot. It would also then have to be the same story/same situation at all the other clubs/parents that are complaining about the same things online. You believe it's a simple "didn't perform - get out", while others believe there's more to the ECNL vs. MLS, and more specifically ECNL-R vs MLS2 battle that is fighting for the same kids over the next two years, and this is an attempted power play by one (or both) of the organizations to force clubs to choose a side.

Either of these situations could turn out to have some validity, and in fact they both can be true at the same time.

Your absolutely right. It is all speculation until someone shares the correspondence the ECNL sent De Anza regarding the alleged conditions of remaining in the League. Certainly the club received something. Did they share that with the players and parents when they notified everyone that they are no longer in the league?

 

[footylove]

Is there a website for MLS2? did a quick google search and can't find anything .. trying to find out how many teams norcal joining or overall

 

[Barca2021]

Is there a website for MLS2? did a quick google search and can't find anything .. trying to find out how many teams norcal joining or overall

No, MLS2 is just a "branding" by MLS Next clubs to signify their 2nd team. There is no MLS2 league. If you dig a little deeper into the clubs joining the NAL you will find that many are advertising MLS2 during their tryouts.

 

[footylove]

Got it. thanks

 

[VanMan]

Does anyone know when this happened? Has to have been in the past couple months. I wonder if the USYS Elite 64 program caused the split?

In the public domain as of Feb 2022:

To: The GA Family
From: Skip Gilbert, USYS CEO

To All:

When the Girls Academy launched in 2020, US Youth Soccer (USYS) put aside all competitive differences to our National League, an elite competitive environment established 15-years ago, consisting of 13 conferences, over 3,500 teams and 80,000 players to show unbridled support. Specifically, we built a national registration process to allow the GA to register its players in one fluid motion, through USYS to their respective State Association.

Our goal was to support the GA off the field so they could create an elite environment to allow the players to succeed on it. We also hoped that given our 48-year history, that the GA would want to utilize many of our programming assets to complement their on-field efforts. For example, USYS offered all GA teams the opportunity to partner with our National League, to join forces with our National League P.R.O. and USYS National Showcase events, which would have provided incredible showcasing opportunities for all teams.

We offered our Olympic Development Program (ODP). ODP has been active since 1977 and provides over 40,000 players each year an opportunity to take advantage of a high-performance training experience that helps every player elevate their game on and off the field.

We opened the door for teams to enter our State Cup Tournaments. The State Cups represent the first-round action for our prestigious National Championship Series (NCS). The NCS is a competition that has earned its place as the premier National Championship in youth soccer since 1974.

Finally, we are launching this fall, the National League Elite 64. This top-tier platform of the National League will invite the best 64 clubs across 8 geographic conferences to compete together. Every game will be a recruitable moment. Once the season begins this fall, only teams in the National League will have the right to be promoted into Elite 64. The National League will embrace a promotion/relegation system allowing USYS to live-up to its principles that every team must "Earn Your Place" and regardless of skill level, every team will "Have A Home".

Our vision is to bring communities together through the power of soccer, making life-long fans of the game. As a part of that vision, we operate under four core priorities. One, to create programming that provides any child the opportunity to learn and love our game. Two, to create pathways that support any level of skill to encourage all players to stay playing straight through their teenage years. Three, to invest in player development platforms that will allow every player the ability to elevate their game to the highest level possible. Four, to invest resources behind the acquisition, retention and development of coaches, and referees while creating a learning center to help parents embrace positive support techniques and sideline behavior.

Unfortunately, the GA has taken a stand to discourage any team or player from taking advantage of the USYS portfolio of assets and most recently, mandating that no club accept our invitation to join the USYS National League Elite 64. As I write this, the GA Board is planning to meet Wednesday to decide if they as a league should remain a part of the overall USYS Family or move over to a separate sanctioning body.

To me, this simply does not appear to be a true partnership. Because of this, and beginning with the fall 2022 season, should the GA remain within the USYS Family, we will make one change in our offered support. We will no longer recognize the GA as a national platform. As such, we will no longer offer the GA a single registration process but ask that each team register directly with our National Network of State Associations. This is the same process that is embraced by tens of thousands of teams and over 2.3 million players every year.

While we value the GA and what they are bringing to the sport, we must remain fair and consistent to the 2.3 million other players that do utilize our vast resources. Again, since most teams within the GA already had a direct relationship with its State Association, registering direct through them will not be a burden and will not impact any specific player.

Have a great spring season and feel free to reach out with any questions. My email address is sgilbert@usyouthsoccer.org.

Now GA is under the US Slowpitch Softball Association (USSSA) with DPL. That doesn't sound like a money grab organization at all .

USSSA has been around for 50+ years. They changed the full name to United States Specialty Sports Association in the 90s. They've been sanctioning (providing insurance, more or less) for everything from softball and baseball to basketball and, yes, soccer since somewhere around that time. Much bigger in the youth baseball world than soccer.

 

[BBJ]

No, MLS2 is just a "branding" by MLS Next clubs to signify their 2nd team. There is no MLS2 league. If you dig a little deeper into the clubs joining the NAL you will find that many are advertising MLS2 during their tryouts.

Then where are the NorCal mls2 teams playing this fall, since there is no NAL league in norcal?

 

[Code]

In the public domain as of Feb 2022:

To: The GA Family
From: Skip Gilbert, USYS CEO

To All:

When the Girls Academy launched in 2020, US Youth Soccer (USYS) put aside all competitive differences to our National League, an elite competitive environment established 15-years ago, consisting of 13 conferences, over 3,500 teams and 80,000 players to show unbridled support. Specifically, we built a national registration process to allow the GA to register its players in one fluid motion, through USYS to their respective State Association.

Our goal was to support the GA off the field so they could create an elite environment to allow the players to succeed on it. We also hoped that given our 48-year history, that the GA would want to utilize many of our programming assets to complement their on-field efforts. For example, USYS offered all GA teams the opportunity to partner with our National League, to join forces with our National League P.R.O. and USYS National Showcase events, which would have provided incredible showcasing opportunities for all teams.

We offered our Olympic Development Program (ODP). ODP has been active since 1977 and provides over 40,000 players each year an opportunity to take advantage of a high-performance training experience that helps every player elevate their game on and off the field.

We opened the door for teams to enter our State Cup Tournaments. The State Cups represent the first-round action for our prestigious National Championship Series (NCS). The NCS is a competition that has earned its place as the premier National Championship in youth soccer since 1974.

Finally, we are launching this fall, the National League Elite 64. This top-tier platform of the National League will invite the best 64 clubs across 8 geographic conferences to compete together. Every game will be a recruitable moment. Once the season begins this fall, only teams in the National League will have the right to be promoted into Elite 64. The National League will embrace a promotion/relegation system allowing USYS to live-up to its principles that every team must "Earn Your Place" and regardless of skill level, every team will "Have A Home".

Our vision is to bring communities together through the power of soccer, making life-long fans of the game. As a part of that vision, we operate under four core priorities. One, to create programming that provides any child the opportunity to learn and love our game. Two, to create pathways that support any level of skill to encourage all players to stay playing straight through their teenage years. Three, to invest in player development platforms that will allow every player the ability to elevate their game to the highest level possible. Four, to invest resources behind the acquisition, retention and development of coaches, and referees while creating a learning center to help parents embrace positive support techniques and sideline behavior.

Unfortunately, the GA has taken a stand to discourage any team or player from taking advantage of the USYS portfolio of assets and most recently, mandating that no club accept our invitation to join the USYS National League Elite 64. As I write this, the GA Board is planning to meet Wednesday to decide if they as a league should remain a part of the overall USYS Family or move over to a separate sanctioning body.

To me, this simply does not appear to be a true partnership. Because of this, and beginning with the fall 2022 season, should the GA remain within the USYS Family, we will make one change in our offered support. We will no longer recognize the GA as a national platform. As such, we will no longer offer the GA a single registration process but ask that each team register directly with our National Network of State Associations. This is the same process that is embraced by tens of thousands of teams and over 2.3 million players every year.

While we value the GA and what they are bringing to the sport, we must remain fair and consistent to the 2.3 million other players that do utilize our vast resources. Again, since most teams within the GA already had a direct relationship with its State Association, registering direct through them will not be a burden and will not impact any specific player.

Have a great spring season and feel free to reach out with any questions. My email address is sgilbert@usyouthsoccer.org.



USSSA has been around for 50+ years. They changed the full name to United States Specialty Sports Association in the 90s. They've been sanctioning (providing insurance, more or less) for everything from softball and baseball to basketball and, yes, soccer since somewhere around that time. Much bigger in the youth baseball world than soccer.

Thank you for sharing this. It provides a clear picture of what the different Leagues' true perspectives are for Youth Soccer. The old saying that "Action speak louder than Words," comes to mind. I applaud USYS for working to provide many paths for players to compete openly against others, without creating arbitrary exclusions to Clubs (Players) that may outperform the existing status quo. USYS is on the right path from my perspective. It's disappointing that the GA would prevent legitimate cross play between the Clubs at the highest levels. This shoots a bunch of holes in the theories that there just isn't any crossplay opportunities to see how the leagues match up against each other. Not only did the GA not take advantage of the opportunities, they outright strong armed the GA Clubs from doing so.

 

[Barca2021]

Well this announcement throw all theories into the trash bin. SAFC is a full path MLS club. Are they leaving MLS for ECNL?

ECNL Boys

The official ECNL Boys page for the ECNL (Elite Club National League)

www.ecnlboys.com

Did ECNL score a coup in Texas with Solar and Rise?
Along with the addition of SAFC Academy, the ECNL Boys is also pleased to announce the full alignment of Solar SC, RISE SC, and HTX Soccer (formerly Houston Dynamo Youth), with each club positioning the ECNL at the top of its competition program for the 2023-24 season.

 

[Grace T.]

Well this announcement throw all theories into the trash bin. SAFC is a full path MLS club. Are they leaving MLS for ECNL?

ECNL Boys

The official ECNL Boys page for the ECNL (Elite Club National League)

www.ecnlboys.com

Did ECNL score a coup in Texas with Solar and Rise?
Along with the addition of SAFC Academy, the ECNL Boys is also pleased to announce the full alignment of Solar SC, RISE SC, and HTX Soccer (formerly Houston Dynamo Youth), with each club positioning the ECNL at the top of its competition program for the 2023-24 season.

Solar, Rise and Dynamo are all MLS Next Clubs in the Frontier division. It says "with each club positioning the ECNL at the top of its competition program for the 2023-24 season". I don't understand how that's possible. Either the clubs are leading a mass exodus of Texas out of the MLS Next and these clubs will now position their "top teams" in the ECNL, or Texas and ECNL have decided the second teams will now all be parked in ECNL and the press release is just exaggerating about the "top of its competition" program. If the latter, it's a direct throw down the gauntlet moment towards the east coast academy league (where MLS Next Teams are expressly parking their second teams in order to get more roster flexibility and have been expressly declared its for the MLS Next second teams), and the EA. If the latter, the boys second tier just became an absolute mess, with ECNL finally giving up the illusion it is the 1.5 league (it's would be making a move to be clearly second). ECNL would be 2nd in Texas, 1.5 and split with the EA on the West Coast, and who knows what happens out on the East. Shocking.

 

[Barca2021]

Solar, Rise and Dynamo are all MLS Next Clubs in the Frontier division. It says "with each club positioning the ECNL at the top of its competition program for the 2023-24 season". I don't understand how that's possible. Either the clubs are leading a mass exodus of Texas out of the MLS Next and these clubs will now position their "top teams" in the ECNL, or Texas and ECNL have decided the second teams will now all be parked in ECNL and the press release is just exaggerating about the "top of its competition" program. If the latter, it's a direct throw down the gauntlet moment towards the east coast academy league (where MLS Next Teams are expressly parking their second teams in order to get more roster flexibility and have been expressly declared its for the MLS Next second teams), and the EA. If the latter, the boys second tier just became an absolute mess, with ECNL finally giving up the illusion it is the 1.5 league (it's would be making a move to be clearly second). ECNL would be 2nd in Texas, 1.5 and split with the EA on the West Coast, and who knows what happens out on the East. Shocking.

Maybe it's the former which is why MLS promoted two obscure TX clubs recently (Dallas Hornets and Houston Rangers)

 

[Barca2021]

Well Well Well

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1640890471219187713

 

[Grace T.]

Well Well Well

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1640890471219187713

Wow the plot does thicken. So much good info Barca. So it is the former....heading out of the MLS Next! Now the parents get to vote with their feet. Either they exodus out of the departing MLS Next Teams and ECNL definitively drops down to an also ran on the boys side, or ECNL becomes robust and breaks the boys first tier in two (between next and ECNL....excluding of course the academies who will always reign supreme as long as they have the monopoly on the pro pathway in the US).

Between Hornets and the LA Red Bulls (as well as the rumored moves behind the scenes to plan for a girl's academy system), MLS Next is clearly banking that parents will pick their product and "if you build it they will come". If it's the second, the system might benefit from having a clear two track approach (either MLS Next or ECNL affiliated all the way down) but that means the EA and E64 are doomed eventually.

It's chipping away, though, at the meritocracy argument these letter leagues used to justify their exclusionary behavior. Wouldn't surprise me if the government eventually comes sniffing around.