Desert Hound
DA
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Bad News Thread
- Thread starter kickingandscreaming
- Start date
Desert Hound
DA
There’s a lot of this where’s the flu on the Twitter verse (particularly given flu immunization last I checked was down from normal). There’s really a basic answer: covid is more contagious than flu so while masks may help against flu they probably help less against covid particularly if the conditions exist for it to be aersolized. Similarly while distancing and isolating a sick resident of your home may help with flu it will help less with covid.
Both the CDC and articles you have posted on masks are quite clear that masks reduce the rate of outgoing droplets and aerosols. For example, your most recent real article showed reductions in the 70 to 95 percent range.
You can therefore stop saying things like "they probably help less...". This opinion is both dangerous and wholly unsupported by the data.
Just one more example of Grace making misleading statements that discourage others from taking sensible precautions.
Glitterhater
SILVER ELITE
I must have some serious comprehension issues this morning, (not that far fetched,) but I thought what she was saying was fairly rational? If flu is less contagious, then yea- transmission is less likely and mitigation efforts, (ie: masks,) are more likely to help. With COVID, transmission is easier which means mitigation efforts aren't as successful- doesn't mean the efforts totally fail, just don't work as well. Again, I could be totally misinterpreting.
If there were not a steady drip of mildly negative comments on the CDC recommendations, maybe.
Even then, there is no reason to believe that contagiousness correlates one way or the other with mask effectiveness. Maybe a more contagious virus is harder for masks to stop, because a 10% exposure is still enough. Maybe a more contagious virus is more vulnerable to masks, because so many more people are at a moderately dangerous distance from the spreader. I don't know, and I would be surprised if more than one person here knew.
I just see it as a counterproductive post.
not counterproductive just questioning. It’spretty clear covid is more contagiousthan the flu and there is evidence it’s more aersolized than the flu. I don’t think people should stop wearing masks when in doors. I just think the authorities shouldn’t oversell them (undermines trust and discouraged social distancing if people think masks are better than vaccines). That said, our public health experts are all idiots which is why they probably have their jobs instead of being notable cancer specialists,top notch surgeons or even dr oz.
That's exactly what I mean by counterproductive.
They actually studied this stuff. You did not. Yet you have the hubris to say you know it better than they do. Which you do not.
Take that class in biological dynamical systems. Then you'll have a better sense for what does and does not count as a significant change to transmission/Rt.
And back to round and round we go.....
Desert Hound
DA
they are the bottom of the barrel out of medical school (just below pediatrician and above coroner) or couldn’t get into medical school so went into health policy. Just like it takes a certain type of nut job to be an attorney, it takes a particularly deficient personality set to get into their job (seriously have never seen such scorn out of my aap friend).
Another possibility is that asymptomatic flu cases are common but not tested for. Thus presenting the appearance that COVID is more contagious.
theres Totally a psychology thing at work here. Not intended as a criticism of him (it’s just the way he’s wired) but he has a need for the security of experts and control (and perhaps the certainty of science and mathematics) and so reacts to any nuanced criticism of them by lashing out or any deviation in the data with skepticism. My operating principle is to question everything and trust no one (perhaps due to early childhood disappointments probably stemming from my inability to count on peers and parents) so it makes for a toxic relationship and a particular source of resentment.
don’t have any data on that but I like the question!
You should hear what the math dept types think of the LSAT and MCAT.
That doesn’t mean any of us know squat about law or business. It just means we are full of ourselves and look down on people who pick other professions.
If you want to talk about what does and does not make for a meaningful change the spread of disease, you still need the classes in biological dynamical systems. It doesn’t matter how smart you are. You don’t know the material.
this another failing of the math science types. Same with law btw They think all of their field is somehow complicated that only experts can comprehend the basics. Some of it is. Not all of it
just because I never played pro mls doesn’t mean I dont have a comprehension of the basics of goalkeeping or can’t understand goalkeeping. Does big joe understand more than me? Yes. Absolutely. Does that mean big joe can’t be wrong about a point? No he can be. Can I catch him out? Yes particularly if I’ve come across another source that disputes him
same with flamenco. I spent a year study in spain. Does that mean I know more than Pascual? No. Does that mean Pascual is infallible? No. Does that mean pascual is immune to being questioned? No
So let’s take law. Even in that subject I’m pretty much a generalist and a specialist in say con law knows more than me. Does that mean I can’t opine on con law? No particularly since I’m capable of raising questions. Has that stopped you despite your math background from raising questions or questioning me? No. Have I told you to stfu about law because you understand nothing? No you are bright and the point of the forum is to discuss
but more than that the tradition of the renaissance is that we are all capable of independent thought. Information now is widely available and questions come from all areas. A degree doesn’t make you special or superior to anyone, or smarter since there are many dumb dumbs out there with degrees. It just makes you more knowledgeable, not infallible.
ps I’ll also reiterate a story I raised before. During lockdowns I had a bad bacterial infection I suspected was drug resistant. Two specialist told me nah the tests were good and all was well. My gp was suspicious and sent me for a second opinion who said I was a worry wart. One evening I came down with a high fever, vomiting and excruciating pain. The gp wanted to wait 24 hours. I said no and demanded to be switched to an antibiotic I had researched. He resisted...wanted to wait for the test. The next day the tests came back and the specialists noted i might be dead had I waited any longer. They didn’t want to admit me which would have been the logical steps because of the covid protocols and I’d have to give up custody of the kids (one of whom had been recovering from covid). But for questioning the experts I’d possibly be dead
kickingandscreaming
PREMIER
If they know so much, why aren't their predictions better? Why did it take them months to determine COVID was aerosolized? Why did they go back and forth on mask efficacy? I am not claiming they aren't experts, but to what end? If they had managed to earn any credibility at the beginning, maybe people would listen to them now. You don't get credibility with BS like that.
The aerosol question got political. Scientists were willing to say aerosol long before WHO.
Similarly, the CDC was worried that hoarding masks would make it impossible for hospitals to buy enough to protect doctors and nurses. The false message was corrected back in April.
I won't defend either message, but that's different from saying I think I understand epidemiology better than they do.
Don't necessarily agree with the commentary but another mask incident on an airplane involving a child......
Renaissance style ‘salons’ or gatherings are not permitted at this time... ; )