Bad News Thread

I will let the immunologists say whether a positive antibody test or previous positive PCR test is as good as a vaccine. If they say yes, then yes. If they say no, then no.

Thinking you have had covid, with no test, is not as good as a vaccine.
Who said anything about “thinking you’ve had it”. I would agree there. My point is, you want everyone to “show your papers” to be able to attend events, eat in restaurants and so on, based on Vaccine status when in fact having had the virus (and surviving like over 98% of the cases have) appears to be better than having gotten the Vax. So why should those be denied entry?

Do you agree or not?
 
I will let the immunologists say whether a positive antibody test or previous positive PCR test is as good as a vaccine. If they say yes, then yes. If they say no, then no.

Thinking you have had covid, with no test, is not as good as a vaccine.
I know a few trump lovers (i.e. it’s a hoax, it’s not that serious, anti mask, anti vaccine, anti science, can’t hurt children . . . talk about a list of contradictory statements!) who have sworn they had the Covid and fought it off no problem. “Did you test positive?” “No, but I know it was the Covid!”
 
Who said anything about “thinking you’ve had it”. I would agree there. My point is, you want everyone to “show your papers” to be able to attend events, eat in restaurants and so on, based on Vaccine status when in fact having had the virus (and surviving like over 98% of the cases have) appears to be better than having gotten the Vax. So why should those be denied entry?

Do you agree or not?
“Appears”? According to who?
 
Who said anything about “thinking you’ve had it”. I would agree there. My point is, you want everyone to “show your papers” to be able to attend events, eat in restaurants and so on, based on Vaccine status when in fact having had the virus (and surviving like over 98% of the cases have) appears to be better than having gotten the Vax. So why should those be denied entry?

Do you agree or not?
No jab no ECNL I bet is next on Dad's list of kicking people out who think critically and know for a fact they got this virus back in Jan 2020. All I ever do is ask the tough questions. I know it's coming Kicker, I feel it. No jab, no sports in California. Jabs+ mask 24/7+ Boosters when we tell you to roll up sleeve= the good life :) No jab, no entry. No jab, no job. No jab, no nothing. These people are ruthless son's of bitches. Their scared little men who can;t handle a different point of view.
 
Who said anything about “thinking you’ve had it”. I would agree there. My point is, you want everyone to “show your papers” to be able to attend events, eat in restaurants and so on, based on Vaccine status when in fact having had the virus (and surviving like over 98% of the cases have) appears to be better than having gotten the Vax. So why should those be denied entry?

Do you agree or not?
If a prior infection is as effective as a vaccine, then verified prior infections should also count. But they probably won’t.

Anti-vax people with prior infections are not very popular in places with high vax rates. There is a lot of anger at the anti-mask, anti-vax contingent, based on the accurate belief that they helped cause this by running around spreading it the last 15 months. I would not expect the SF or NY public health officials to carve out an extra exemption for anti-vax folks who get themselves infected.
 
Brumby tweets

Sweden’s 7-day average COVID deaths have been at ZERO for about a month now.

I feel like its only a matter of time before the very existence of a place called Sweden is scrubbed from the internet.

Not scrubbed so much. Its just that twitter science has maybe a 2 week memory. Sweden's early "dry tinder" wave is, so to speak, dead and buried at this point. Going all Balfour is all well and good. I mean its definitely one way to go. But then you need alternative polices to specifically protect the vulnerable (elderly in this case) against community transmission. Sweden didn't do as good a job as they needed to there.

Did you ever check out what "herd immunity" in Sweden might mean with ~20% sero-positivity? Seriously, might be more interesting than misappropriating any death/case ratio that you come across as an IFR. I suspect "Brumby" may not be much help however. Search term "PAMP innate immunity".
 
“Appears”? According to who?
A study of 43,000 concluded the following regarding "natural immunity":
"Reinfection is rare. Natural infection appears to elicit strong protection against reinfection with an efficacy ~95% for at least seven months".
Disclaimer: this study was pre-Delta

Another study concluded the following for "breakthrough infections" for the vaccinated:
"All authorized COVID-19 vaccines demonstrated efficacy (range 65% to 95%) against symptomatic, laboratory-confirmed COVID-19 in adults ≥18 years."
Please note that this is only for "symptomatic" infection and not for all infections. So its safe to assume the efficacy for all infections would be lower, maybe much lower. Disclaimer: Unclear as to whether any of the symptomatic infections were Delta.
 
Since we like quotes here-
"We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out."
Who said that? Interesting. I'm going deep everyday. My brain is so open to new ideas and frontiers.
 
I will let the immunologists say whether a positive antibody test or previous positive PCR test is as good as a vaccine. If they say yes, then yes. If they say no, then no.

Thinking you have had covid, with no test, is not as good as a vaccine.

It's unfortunate the criterion of circulating antibody levels is being either misunderstood or deliberately misused in some cases. With a natural infection, symptomtic or not, the immune systems"sees" a large number of different surfaces of the virus. There is therefore a large antibody production response and a high titer of circulating antibodies. However, only a relatively small fraction of these antibodies can block the interaction between the spike protein and the Ace2 receptor, and thus prevent a second infection. The circulating levels of those so-called neutralizing antibodies will drop over time, at which point offsetting a second infection will require "waking up" the immune system memory cells to produce those antibodies from scratch.

With the vaccine the absolute AMOUNT of circulating antibody after the second booster may not be as high as natural infection, But the FRACTION of those antibodies that can block the interaction between the spike protein and Ace2 is higher, since that is the only target the immune system is seeing. As with natural infection, the level of those antibodies will decline over time as well, at which point antibody production will require waking up the memory cells. But studies have shown that a very high fraction of the resulting memory cells arising after vaxx can produce potent neutralizing antibodies. Which is why the vaccines are working so well at uncoupling cases and deaths in high vaxxed vulnerable people. Even if a second infection gets established eventually that sweet immunity kicks in and takes care of things. The same thing happens with natural immunity too, but the spectrum of antibodies that can produced upon re-infection is more hit and miss.

Anyway the total antibody concentration stuff is being misappropriated to argue natural immunity is better than the vaxx, which is just kind of silly. How long circulating antibody levels can be sustained at levels necesessary to directly prevent re-infection in either case is subject to lots of variables. And with a high replicating variant like delta keeping circulating neutralizing antibody levels high enough to prevent any sort of viral propagation is going to be really challenging, no matter how you prime the immune system, especially with a super sensitize detection method like PCR.
 
It's unfortunate the criterion of circulating antibody levels is being either misunderstood or deliberately misused in some cases. With a natural infection, symptomtic or not, the immune systems"sees" a large number of different surfaces of the virus. There is therefore a large antibody production response and a high titer of circulating antibodies. However, only a relatively small fraction of these antibodies can block the interaction between the spike protein and the Ace2 receptor, and thus prevent a second infection. The circulating levels of those so-called neutralizing antibodies will drop over time, at which point offsetting a second infection will require "waking up" the immune system memory cells to produce those antibodies from scratch.

With the vaccine the absolute AMOUNT of circulating antibody after the second booster may not be as high as natural infection, But the FRACTION of those antibodies that can block the interaction between the spike protein and Ace2 is higher, since that is the only target the immune system is seeing. As with natural infection, the level of those antibodies will decline over time as well, at which point antibody production will require waking up the memory cells. But studies have shown that a very high fraction of the resulting memory cells arising after vaxx can produce potent neutralizing antibodies. Which is why the vaccines are working so well at uncoupling cases and deaths in high vaxxed vulnerable people. Even if a second infection gets established eventually that sweet immunity kicks in and takes care of things. The same thing happens with natural immunity too, but the spectrum of antibodies that can produced upon re-infection is more hit and miss.

Anyway the total antibody concentration stuff is being misappropriated to argue natural immunity is better than the vaxx, which is just kind of silly. How long circulating antibody levels can be sustained at levels necesessary to directly prevent re-infection in either case is subject to lots of variables. And with a high replicating variant like delta keeping circulating neutralizing antibody levels high enough to prevent any sort of viral propagation is going to be really challenging, no matter how you prime the immune system, especially with a super sensitize detection method like PCR.
So basically, with “Natural immunity” it can fade and possibly need to be “awoken” after some time which could lead to more severe complications, is that what you are deducing here?

Now that they are calling for Booster shots for the Vax’d, wouldn’t that kind of fall into the “need to wake up the antibodies” theory?

All in all, we do t have long term data either way.
 
Attributed to Karl Rove
Old Karl. I watched him back in the old days on Fox. Is he still at Fox? I seriously do not have TV. I just surf online for now. My wife and I are going offline soon and I can;t wait. Were just going to live off the land that is all of ours to share. We have lived as a people a very selfish life, moo. One that is all about self and not others, especially the kids. Not everyone lived like this but many have. This is not a time to be selfish, trust me.
 
Not scrubbed so much. Its just that twitter science has maybe a 2 week memory. Sweden's early "dry tinder" wave is, so to speak, dead and buried at this point. Going all Balfour is all well and good. I mean its definitely one way to go. But then you need alternative polices to specifically protect the vulnerable (elderly in this case) against community transmission. Sweden didn't do as good a job as they needed to there.
How could they have done better? And better than who? They did better than most of the panicked world according to their needs. Not the socialist one size fits all policies that have been peddled throughout the world.

Did you ever check out what "herd immunity" in Sweden might mean with ~20% sero-positivity? Seriously, might be more interesting than misappropriating any death/case ratio that you come across as an IFR. I suspect "Brumby" may not be much help however. Search term "PAMP innate immunity".
What could be more interesting than zero deaths over the last month given that "Sweden didn't do as good a job as they needed to there."
 
It's unfortunate the criterion of circulating antibody levels is being either misunderstood or deliberately misused in some cases. With a natural infection, symptomtic or not, the immune systems"sees" a large number of different surfaces of the virus. There is therefore a large antibody production response and a high titer of circulating antibodies. However, only a relatively small fraction of these antibodies can block the interaction between the spike protein and the Ace2 receptor, and thus prevent a second infection. The circulating levels of those so-called neutralizing antibodies will drop over time, at which point offsetting a second infection will require "waking up" the immune system memory cells to produce those antibodies from scratch.

With the vaccine the absolute AMOUNT of circulating antibody after the second booster may not be as high as natural infection, But the FRACTION of those antibodies that can block the interaction between the spike protein and Ace2 is higher, since that is the only target the immune system is seeing. As with natural infection, the level of those antibodies will decline over time as well, at which point antibody production will require waking up the memory cells. But studies have shown that a very high fraction of the resulting memory cells arising after vaxx can produce potent neutralizing antibodies. Which is why the vaccines are working so well at uncoupling cases and deaths in high vaxxed vulnerable people. Even if a second infection gets established eventually that sweet immunity kicks in and takes care of things. The same thing happens with natural immunity too, but the spectrum of antibodies that can produced upon re-infection is more hit and miss.

Anyway the total antibody concentration stuff is being misappropriated to argue natural immunity is better than the vaxx, which is just kind of silly. How long circulating antibody levels can be sustained at levels necesessary to directly prevent re-infection in either case is subject to lots of variables. And with a high replicating variant like delta keeping circulating neutralizing antibody levels high enough to prevent any sort of viral propagation is going to be really challenging, no matter how you prime the immune system, especially with a super sensitize detection method like PCR.
Is there any good evidence on the degree to which prior infections are effective at limiting Delta infections?
 
Anti-vax people with prior infections are not very popular in places with high vax rates. There is a lot of anger at the anti-mask, anti-vax contingent, based on the accurate belief that they helped cause this by running around spreading it the last 15 months.
So far everyone I know who got Jabbed twice have been super cool with me. Everyone!!! My wife's whole family got jabbed and we just left their place last week. Hugs and kisses from each group, vax and non vax. All together, eating and drinking together. No one got sick......yet....lol! All of the one's who got jabbed have been sick a few times in last 18 months ((not my family of four though, except my dd got a little sniffle)). My neighbors all got jabbed too. No one is blaming me for their personal illnesses dude except you. WTF do you live again? What a horrible place to live, moo!!!! My pal who lives up in Kirkland, WA is super cool. He invited me up for a BBQ next week. He said his whole neighborhood got the shots a long time ago and all is super good. Mask wearing to keep the peace but nothing else like, "your not invited." What a complete asshole you are dad the neighbor." I think you have problems and you really should stay home and seek some mental help. Really dad, sit this one out. You have Fearoflightis really bad.
Dear Lord, Angels & Heavenly Realm, I pray for Dad of 4 kids who is causing so much division on this planet with all his fear. He;s trying to sperate us all, all because he thinks some of us are unclean because we would NOT take the shots from Bill and Dr. F. I pray Father that you help dad out tonight in a dream that he's wrong and does not have a clue on what he's talking about. He's just divisive with his writings. Please also help Evil Goalie, Husker, EOTL, Messy and that poor fella, Espoal see the Light. For Jorge Soros and the others who were born to be evil, please take them away ASAP. In Christ name I pray, Amen! Now that felt great. God bless you all and God Bless America and God please help us now!!!!
 
So basically, with “Natural immunity” it can fade and possibly need to be “awoken” after some time which could lead to more severe complications, is that what you are deducing here?

Now that they are calling for Booster shots for the Vax’d, wouldn’t that kind of fall into the “need to wake up the antibodies” theory?

All in all, we do t have long term data either way.

The immunity is "natural" either with vaxx or infection. Different ways of triggering the same body process. Lets say just vaxxed or recently infected. Antibody levels will be high. Breath in some virus. They infect nasal eipthelial cells which release more virus. In that case the antibodies bind to the virus that is released from those cells and immediately prevent those particles from further infecting other cells. Note that a nasal swap PCR test might still be able to detect that small level of virus. But say its 9 months out from infection or vaxx. Now you breath the virus in and it infects nasal epithelial cells. But the antibody levels in circulator system have declined. So can't immediately stop it, especially with something like delta which releases 10X or greater viral particle per infected cell compared to alpha. Depending on how well your immune system is functioning-the wake up time-the infection may progress into lower respiratory track for example. But antibody levels are now going up again, and eventually reattain a concentration to neutralize the infection. So the timing of antibody levels going down and getting started up again can really vary in different people. That's why its a difficult thing to say either natural infection vs vaxx is better one way or another at preventing reinfection. Just know with vaxx alot of the memory cells that are formed will produce the right kind of antibodies to offset second infection if at high enough circulating levels.

And you are right. The "keep the circulating antibody levels high" idea is exactly why the talk of boosters is picking up. It's to try and drive down community transmission, not to keep susceptible people from getting COVID.
 
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