Bad News Thread

Grace T. said:
News reports with bad news about 2 mask studies:

1. Surgical masks shouldn't be reused
2. Cloth masks while maybe reducing viral load intakes do not block enough particles to keep people from getting sick

www.dailymail.co.uk

Wearing a used mask 'can be WORSE than not wearing one at all'

A new study found that new three-layer surgical masks can filter out 65% of tiny coronavirus-infected particles but used masks can filter out just 25% because the mask becomes worn out.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk

www.dailymail.co.uk

Masks NOT enough to stop spread of COVID-19 without social distancing

A new study, from New Mexico State University found that cloth masks let in more than 1,000 sneeze droplets, each of which could contain millions of tiny virus particles that could infect someone.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk
Click to expand...
Prior to masks becoming politicized....

The CDC has/had a page talking about the effectiveness of masks vs the flu.

They looked at numerous studies. What did the studies find?

That masks were ineffective at preventing the spread of the flu.

Where were the studies done?

In hospital settings. By people (doctors/nurses) who knew how to properly wear masks.

We know covid is more contagious vs the flu. And we know that previous studies showed that masks did not prevent the spread of the flu.

So why do we now suddenly believe that masks used by the population at large will stop or even slow the spread of covid?

Further we are seeing high mask compliance today and yet numbers of positive tests have risen dramatically.

That should lead one back to the realization that the original studies cited by the CDC regarding masks and flu were/are correct.
 
happy9 said:
But what must be realized is that goal posts will move, elected and un-elected peeps will change the narrative, and policy will derive from rhetoric, and not science.

It's a self licking ice cream cone.
Click to expand...
Like when everyone kept saying there is going to be a spike in Dec, we need to lock down to save lives, yet did NOTHING to prepare for the spike.
 
Kicker4Life said:
Like when everyone kept saying there is going to be a spike in Dec, we need to lock down to save lives, yet did NOTHING to prepare for the spike.
Click to expand...
It's really hard to pick up the phone and ask the bad orange man for help, hard. Put the bad orange man aside for now, plenty of federal resources available. The hard question to answer is the amount of available staff to cover additional surge requirements. Anyone can put up a tent, throw in some beds, connect some power, but can they find the staff? Outside of parking a staffed Hospital Ship in long beach harbor, I don't know where the staff will come from.

But yea, prepare? why? it's easier to blame you and impose more restrictions.
 
happy9 said:
It's really hard to pick up the phone and ask the bad orange man for help, hard. Put the bad orange man aside for now, plenty of federal resources available. The hard question to answer is the amount of available staff to cover additional surge requirements. Anyone can put up a tent, throw in some beds, connect some power, but can they find the staff? Outside of parking a staffed Hospital Ship in long beach harbor, I don't know where the staff will come from.

But yea, prepare? why? it's easier to blame you and impose more restrictions.
Click to expand...
Had 5 months to work on that plan. Maybe National Guard or Reserves could lend a hand.
 
Kicker4Life said:
Had 5 months to work on that plan. Maybe National Guard or Reserves could lend a hand.
Click to expand...
No doubt they've had time. Now they've run out of time. If you are a physician in the guard and reserve, you are likely busy in your full time job and not available to staff a field hospital or do your time on a hospital ship.

The reality in CA is that the medical infrastructure is inadequate to handle a real deal pandemic. The bed to people ratio is woefully lacking, and has been so for some time. That doesn't absolve them of their requirement to plan. I guess it highlights the inadequacies of CA emergency planners and the lack of managing budgets going back decades. It's crazy to think that California has one-third the number of beds per capita as Poland.

www.nytimes.com

Surging Virus Exposes California’s Weak Spot: A Lack of Hospital Beds and Staff

Many of the state’s hospitals have maintained lower numbers of beds in part to limit the length of patient stays and lower costs. But that approach is now being tested.
www.nytimes.com www.nytimes.com
.
 
Bad news for schools if this is what they are thinking. We need to start with the assumption that kids (at least 12 and under) probably won't be vaccinated until fall 2021 (12-15 maybe in the summer....16-18 spring)....and then we don't know what the vaccine mandate looks like:

1. It assumes Congress will authorize another huge COVID relief bill. Unlikely, given the s show with the current one, even if the Ds are able to win both Georgia Senate seats.
2. By the time it deploys, we are well into vaccinating most of the population
3. It would set a similar standard of care for youth sports which is troublesome
4. They seem to be leaning towards rapid tests, and only once a week, to save money which means it's not enough to even prevent an outbreak (only to shut down things once one detected, even if by false positives).
5. It means starts and stops in schooling are likely to continue for the foreseable future until COVID "disappears".
6. They are doubling down on the idea we need to get to zero transmission for things to return to normal

If implemented, we are in for a bumpy ride as parents because it's not going to be zero for a while, if ever. Kid's education would be disrupted for at least another year or so....if the thing mutates so the vaccine doesn't stop it as well, or if the vaccine does not stop transmission or has only a limited duration, never.

www.politico.com

Biden team's multibillion-dollar school testing plan takes shape

The proposal under consideration calls for the federal government to cover the cost of providing tests to K-12 schools throughout the country.
www.politico.com www.politico.com
 
Grace T. said:
Bad news for schools if this is what they are thinking. We need to start with the assumption that kids (at least 12 and under) probably won't be vaccinated until fall 2021 (12-15 maybe in the summer....16-18 spring)....and then we don't know what the vaccine mandate looks like:

1. It assumes Congress will authorize another huge COVID relief bill. Unlikely, given the s show with the current one, even if the Ds are able to win both Georgia Senate seats.
2. By the time it deploys, we are well into vaccinating most of the population
3. It would set a similar standard of care for youth sports which is troublesome
4. They seem to be leaning towards rapid tests, and only once a week, to save money which means it's not enough to even prevent an outbreak (only to shut down things once one detected, even if by false positives).
5. It means starts and stops in schooling are likely to continue for the foreseable future until COVID "disappears".
6. They are doubling down on the idea we need to get to zero transmission for things to return to normal

If implemented, we are in for a bumpy ride as parents because it's not going to be zero for a while, if ever. Kid's education would be disrupted for at least another year or so....if the thing mutates so the vaccine doesn't stop it as well, or if the vaccine does not stop transmission or has only a limited duration, never.

www.politico.com

Biden team's multibillion-dollar school testing plan takes shape

The proposal under consideration calls for the federal government to cover the cost of providing tests to K-12 schools throughout the country.
www.politico.com www.politico.com
Click to expand...
Ha, as you read through the article, it becomes clear no one is really planning anything beyond the surface and that many people are going to make a metric sh!t ton of money from a testing rollout. I'm a big fan of capitalism but have enough experience to know that altruism isn't a gene normally found in the world of pharma. I also know that average capacity humans at the state of local level will fall short when planning anything complex

Interesting article from Europe, where it seems they've been able to separate kid education from politics and have developed an education specific strategy to keep kids in school. I don't think the US has the desire to keep the two separated and their is no GANAS to pursue a strategy that would make school districts and local public health officials actually have to do anything. Just my take though.
 
Grace T. said:
Bad news for schools if this is what they are thinking. We need to start with the assumption that kids (at least 12 and under) probably won't be vaccinated until fall 2021 (12-15 maybe in the summer....16-18 spring)....and then we don't know what the vaccine mandate looks like:

1. It assumes Congress will authorize another huge COVID relief bill. Unlikely, given the s show with the current one, even if the Ds are able to win both Georgia Senate seats.
2. By the time it deploys, we are well into vaccinating most of the population
3. It would set a similar standard of care for youth sports which is troublesome
4. They seem to be leaning towards rapid tests, and only once a week, to save money which means it's not enough to even prevent an outbreak (only to shut down things once one detected, even if by false positives).
5. It means starts and stops in schooling are likely to continue for the foreseable future until COVID "disappears".
6. They are doubling down on the idea we need to get to zero transmission for things to return to normal

If implemented, we are in for a bumpy ride as parents because it's not going to be zero for a while, if ever. Kid's education would be disrupted for at least another year or so....if the thing mutates so the vaccine doesn't stop it as well, or if the vaccine does not stop transmission or has only a limited duration, never.

www.politico.com

Biden team's multibillion-dollar school testing plan takes shape

The proposal under consideration calls for the federal government to cover the cost of providing tests to K-12 schools throughout the country.
www.politico.com www.politico.com
Click to expand...
Once teachers have access to the vaccine there should not be anymore excuses for not opening and then going back to work full time. All this testing would be a waste of money. Until we have true leaders stand up to the unions and tell them to knock it off, there will be demand after demand. My child is not taking the vaccine when it is available for kids. If mandatory vaccinations becomes their next demand my child will never go back to public school. I am not an antivaxer and will take it myself, just see no reason to have my child take it for a virus that will not seriously harm them.
 
happy9 said:
Ha, as you read through the article, it becomes clear no one is really planning anything beyond the surface and that many people are going to make a metric sh!t ton of money from a testing rollout. I'm a big fan of capitalism but have enough experience to know that altruism isn't a gene normally found in the world of pharma. I also know that average capacity humans at the state of local level will fall short when planning anything complex

Interesting article from Europe, where it seems they've been able to separate kid education from politics and have developed an education specific strategy to keep kids in school. I don't think the US has the desire to keep the two separated and their is no GANAS to pursue a strategy that would make school districts and local public health officials actually have to do anything. Just my take though.
Click to expand...
Forgot to add the article - oops.

 
Soccer Bum 06 said:
Once teachers have access to the vaccine there should not be anymore excuses for not opening and then going back to work full time. All this testing would be a waste of money. Until we have true leaders stand up to the unions and tell them to knock it off, there will be demand after demand. My child is not taking the vaccine when it is available for kids. If mandatory vaccinations becomes their next demand my child will never go back to public school. I am not an antivaxer and will take it myself, just see no reason to have my child take it for a virus that will not seriously harm them.
Click to expand...
I didn't want to open up the teacher's union can of worms, but I agree in principle. Let's see what happens when obstacles are removed.
 
Soccer Bum 06 said:
I am not an antivaxer and will take it myself, just see no reason to have my child take it for a virus that will not seriously harm them.
Click to expand...
People under 24 yrs of age have ZERO real risk related to the covid.

Some numbers to think about.

About 60% of ALL deaths come from those 75 and older.

The number of people over 75 is approx. 22.5 million

We have a population of 328 million.

So 60% of all deaths come from a population group that makes up a bit less than 7% of the total population.

80% of all deaths are from people 65 and older. According the CENSUS the average person retires (65 for men and 63 for women).

That might make one wonder a few things.

Why shut down so many businesses? It is not like you have the at risk categories working there correct?

Why aren't schools open. Kids have zero risk. The average age of your HS teacher is 43. If you look at CDC stats that age group has very little real risk. 35-44 yr olds have experienced less than 2% of all deaths.

If you look at all ages under 54 the percentage of deaths is just 7.5% of the total deaths.

Our blanket approach, shut biz, schools, etc is not ideal.

Vaccinate the 22.5 million people over 75 and you eliminate 60% of all the deaths.

Vaccinate the 48 million people over that age of 65 and you eliminate 80% of all deaths.

Then vaccinate or at the same time the younger aged individuals who have serious health issues. That takes care of the cause of most of the deaths at the younger ages.

And that should be a wrap on this thing.

So we don't for instance need 300 million doses for the US. You need 48 million plus (whatever is needed to vax the youngers with health issues) to take care of the group that is actually at risk.

Remember they are claiming these vaccines are mid 90% effective.
 
Further...if gov acts now and vaccinates that 65 and over group. That takes care of 80% of all the deaths.

More importantly once you do that, there is little reason/logic to continue shutdowns, masks, limit schooling, etc.

Unfortunately they (the gov) won't focus on that at risk group all at once. I am sure the doses will be spread out amongst different age groups, which will have the affect of actually prolonging this thing longer. The thing being restrictions on biz, schooling, masks, etc.
 
And last number to think about.

In the US about 550 people under the age of 24 have died due to covid.

Split equally amongst the 50 states....11 per state. Yes I know it isn't split equally.

So CA has shut down sports, elementary, middle, hs and colleges based on 11 deaths.

Does that sound reasonable? Good policy?

CA still shows ZERO deaths of under 17 by the way.
 
Desert Hound said:
Further...if gov acts now and vaccinates that 65 and over group. That takes care of 80% of all the deaths.

More importantly once you do that, there is little reason/logic to continue shutdowns, masks, limit schooling, etc.

Unfortunately they (the gov) won't focus on that at risk group all at once. I am sure the doses will be spread out amongst different age groups, which will have the affect of actually prolonging this thing longer. The thing being restrictions on biz, schooling, masks, etc.
Click to expand...

This is why the Florida vaccination plan (65+ before essential workers) makes so much more sense in comparison to either the federal or most blue state plans.
 
Grace T. said:
This is why the Florida vaccination plan (65+ before essential workers) makes so much more sense in comparison to either the federal or most blue state plans.
Click to expand...
It would be interesting to see what the other states with a high geriatric population do - do they follow Florida's lead?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top