Bad News Thread

Grace T. said:
1. You yourself have conceded cloth masks aren’t as good as the other masks which is basically what he’s saying
2. If you have it your way and masks were instrumental in keeping Asia under control they don’t seem to be doing as good of a job anymore
3. He makes the point that once the particle leaves the body it’s no longer a medical point but a physics problem. To some extent he is correct in this. The medical people who have been advising on this can help define the particle and how it presents once it’s left the body but not how the physics affect it or the masks afterwards
4. He has been retained by industry and the uk government to consult on this so he is presumably a qualified expert. The medical professionals advising on other than the structure of particles leaving the body are not experts on this.
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He never makes it clear to the physics. He is still measuring the size of the virus. Wrong question. It completely ignores the fact that the tiny virus is inside a considerably larger water aerosol. It’s like saying a sailboat can get under the bridge because the passengers are so short.

If you want a good analysis of the physics of breath, go back to your MIT study.
 
Grace T. said:
www.telegraph.co.uk

Cloth face masks are 'comfort blankets' that do little to curb Covid spread, Scientist warns

Dr Colin Axon warned some cloth masks have gaps that are invisible to the naked eye, but are 5000 times the size of viral Covid particles
www.telegraph.co.uk www.telegraph.co.uk
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I have to admit that Dr. Axon is about the coolest name ever. And its an opinion piece not a refereed article. BUT, if it WERE refereed it would have been fun ever to write a review that goes something like this.

Aerosols-ols-ols

Gives us that nice hydration
For epithelial penetration
But particle size
Goes up
Exponentially
Oh yeah.

I gotta be in a cell or water
Or denaturation
Leads to
My slaughter
So, Axon don’t take
My aerosols
Away from me.
 
dad4 said:
He never makes it clear to the physics. He is still measuring the size of the virus. Wrong question. It completely ignores the fact that the tiny virus is inside a considerably larger water aerosol. It’s like saying a sailboat can get under the bridge because the passengers are so short.

If you want a good analysis of the physics of breath, go back to your MIT study.
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Fair critique but are you saying the aerosolized ratio of virus to aerosolized particle is 1:500,000? That’s just not consistent with the other data on cloth masks that they simply don’t work as well as the surgical which the article points out also has a smaller ratio
 
More mask news. Nevada southern district health which governs Las Vegas has reimposed the mask mandate. It does not presently apply to the casinos which would have to be mandated by the gaming commission. But the pressure to do so will be severe.

Anyone wanna start a pool for how long before New York and NorCal reimpose?
 
Desert Hound said:
"The most recent Kaiser poll helps illustrate that the vaccine hesitant group doesn't really lean Republican. Just 20% of the group called themselves Republican with an additional 19% being independents who leaned Republican. The clear majority (61%) were not Republicans (41% said they were Democrats or Democratic leaning independents and 20% were either pure independents or undesignated)."
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Saw a graph on the cdc site. If I can find it again I’ll post it. 67% of Asian Americans have gotten at least 1 covid jab. Hispanics running slightly under other at the low 40%. African Americans were the lowest vaccinated group by race at under 40% about 1/3. In the South African Americans aren’t voting overwhelming Republican.
 
Grace T. said:
Fair critique but are you saying the aerosolized ratio of virus to aerosolized particle is 1:500,000? That’s just not consistent with the other data on cloth masks that they simply don’t work as well as the surgical which the article points out also has a smaller ratio
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Not really about size at all. My current belief is that the main benefit of a mask is that it slows your breath, giving the infected air time to diffuse and rise before it reaches the next person.

Hard to measure that in a lab, though. You would need something like the experiment with two mannequin heads, but in a large room and using warm, moist air.

Large room, so the exhalations have room to diffuse. Warm air, because breath is warm and rises. Moist air, because some masks have hydrophilic fibers and some do not.

My guess is even a bandana has a significant impact at slowing your breath, though it is not a very good filter.
 
dad4 said:
What, is it still April 2020 on your planet?

Nice to see that you found a new unqualified person to spout the misinformation this time. This one is a Senior Lecturer in Mechanical Engineering. Not even a professor, and talking well outside his field at that.
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Imagine that.
 
dad4 said:
Not really about size at all. My current belief is that the main benefit of a mask is that it slows your breath, giving the infected air time to diffuse and rise before it reaches the next person.

Hard to measure that in a lab, though. You would need something like the experiment with two mannequin heads, but in a large room and using warm, moist air.

Large room, so the exhalations have room to diffuse. Warm air, because breath is warm and rises. Moist air, because some masks have hydrophilic fibers and some do not.

My guess is even a bandana has a significant impact at slowing your breath, though it is not a very good filter.
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Let me meditate on this a bit.
 
Grace T. said:
In the UK cases are now nearing the winter peak. But deaths remain on the floor, even below the first wave, at around 40-50 per day.

www.worldometers.info

United Kingdom COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

United Kingdom Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.
www.worldometers.info www.worldometers.info
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It seems that "seasonal" now means that it is likely to peak in any season.
 
dad4 said:
Not really about size at all. My current belief is that the main benefit of a mask is that it slows your breath, giving the infected air time to diffuse and rise before it reaches the next person.

Hard to measure that in a lab, though. You would need something like the experiment with two mannequin heads, but in a large room and using warm, moist air.

Large room, so the exhalations have room to diffuse. Warm air, because breath is warm and rises. Moist air, because some masks have hydrophilic fibers and some do not.

My guess is even a bandana has a significant impact at slowing your breath, though it is not a very good filter.
Click to expand...

O.k. It took me a while to process this. This is either: a) a desperate attempt to rationalize and find a way masks works, even against the rising Delta variant which if you assume arguendo masks worked at the beginning and stopped Asia's waves no longer are doing much good, or b) a brilliant new way of thinking of this which has been overlooked by others. I accept that b) is possible, even though its far more than likely its an a) blue pill clinging sort of rationalization attempt.

The only real critique I can offer is that, particular for at least some asthmatics, it works the other way. My breath actually accelerates when wearing a mask (which is one of the reasons I have a personal dislike of them and its not just a minor inconvenience), particularly if my activity level does not slow down from the applicable state. But I have no idea what % of asthmatics it might happen (though given the online complaints it might be substantial) or what portion of the US population would be affect so that it would even be material.
 
Grace T. said:
O.k. It took me a while to process this. This is either: a) a desperate attempt to rationalize and find a way masks works, even against the rising Delta variant which if you assume arguendo masks worked at the beginning and stopped Asia's waves no longer are doing much good, or b) a brilliant new way of thinking of this which has been overlooked by others. I accept that b) is possible, even though its far more than likely its an a) blue pill clinging sort of rationalization attempt.

The only real critique I can offer is that, particular for at least some asthmatics, it works the other way. My breath actually accelerates when wearing a mask (which is one of the reasons I have a personal dislike of them and its not just a minor inconvenience), particularly if my activity level does not slow down from the applicable state. But I have no idea what % of asthmatics it might happen (though given the online complaints it might be substantial) or what portion of the US population would be affect so that it would even be material.
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Please rewrite this completely, with the objectives of being more clear and using half as many words. It's just gobbledygook as it sits.
 
Grace T. said:
O.k. It took me a while to process this. This is either: a) a desperate attempt to rationalize and find a way masks works, even against the rising Delta variant which if you assume arguendo masks worked at the beginning and stopped Asia's waves no longer are doing much good, or b) a brilliant new way of thinking of this which has been overlooked by others. I accept that b) is possible, even though its far more than likely its an a) blue pill clinging sort of rationalization attempt.

The only real critique I can offer is that, particular for at least some asthmatics, it works the other way. My breath actually accelerates when wearing a mask (which is one of the reasons I have a personal dislike of them and its not just a minor inconvenience), particularly if my activity level does not slow down from the applicable state. But I have no idea what % of asthmatics it might happen (though given the online complaints it might be substantial) or what portion of the US population would be affect so that it would even be material.
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yeah, yeah. blue pill, red pill, pink pill, whatevah. Let’s go back to thinking.

Speed of breath in terms of meters per second, not breaths per minute.

That is, how fast is your breath travelling once it is 5 inches from your face? (and what does that imply about the distance it travels in the first 3 seconds after you exhale?)

An asthmatic thinking about speed of breath is thinking about breaths per minute. That’s an important question for personal comfort, but does not affect the velocity I’m talking about.

A simple test is to wet your finger and put it in front of your face. Your breath will cool it when you talk- but not if you have a mask on. The mask is slowing the velocity of your exhalation.
 
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