Vaccine

[Hüsker Dü]

Strange how ID mandates fall between ideological lines. The right wants voter ID for registered voters. Registered, i.e. already on the books as an American citizen with the right to vote . . . but where do those on the right fall on gun registration? Now it’s Covid ID’s? So it’s ok for people to own guns with no paper trail or walk around like a feral cat with who knows what kind of diseases, but Americans need to prove they are Americans over and over?

 

[lafalafa]

Things are heating up in the work places, City of LA, and 5-11 children.

UCLA anesthesiologist, vocal against COVID vaccine mandates, is escorted out of workplace

UCLA anesthesiologist Dr. Christopher B. Rake was escorted out of his workplace for not being vaccinated against COVID-19.

www.latimes.com

City of LA indoor vax mandate nov29

Garcetti signs COVID vaccine mandate for indoor spaces starting Nov. 29

Mayor Garcetti has signed an ordinance to require people in Los Angeles to show proof of vaccination before entering indoor establishments.

abc7.com

Pfizer officially asks FDA to greenlight vaccine for kids ages 5-11

Pfizer officially asks FDA to greenlight vaccine for kids ages 5-11

FDA's advisers are scheduled to debate the evidence later this month.

abc7.com

 

[what-happened]

Its weird that people would think that's scary. The EU have a Digital Covid Cert that they are using to travel, sits on your phone and is also being used to gain entry to places that require it - many on here will be happy with its scope, i.e. the inclusion of the third one. They've issued millions so far. How is it any different to showing ID to get into a bar or requiring certain vaccinations before visiting certain countries.

The EU Digital COVID Certificate (DCC) is proof (in digital or paper format) that you have either:

• been vaccinated against COVID-19 or
• received a negative COVID-19 test result or
• recovered from COVID-19 in the last 6 months

It's not weird. Just because the EU does it doesn't mean we need to do it.

1. Going 100% complete digital would increase inequality off the bat. The homeless, the disabled, and 40% of those over 65 don't have smart phones.
2. Why create anothe new data base for amassing personal data?
3. What's wrong with a paper version? passports seem to work just fine NOT being digital?

Let's work on getting the vaccine equitably distributed. There is plenty of work to be done in getting people vaccinated. Creating a hard to construct digital infrastructure to show proof of vaccination is a waste of time and money.

It's interesting that at first, our governmen clearly expressed zero interest in creating a federal system to track vaccination. Now we are slowly reversing course. Plenty of social pressure being placed to go the route that EU is trying to create. The EU isn' there yet with a central system.

 

[what-happened]

Why is that scary?

Why create another data base? Is this 100% accessible to all? Will the homeless not be allowed into starbucks to use the bathroom if they don't present a vaccine passport on their smartphone?

Don't know if you've ever been to NYC, not too many public restrooms available. Imagine the line at The Shops at Columbus Circle for the public restroom? They are already long on a normal day. Now imgaine having to scan your vaccine passport to use the bathroom.

 

[watfly]

Why create another data base? Is this 100% accessible to all? Will the homeless not be allowed into starbucks to use the bathroom if they don't present a vaccine passport on their smartphone?

Don't know if you've ever been to NYC, not too many public restrooms available. Imagine the line at The Shops at Columbus Circle for the public restroom? They are already long on a normal day. Now imgaine having to scan your vaccine passport to use the bathroom.

Politicians are often so narrow-minded and stubborn on an issue (typically an issue that fits their narrative) that their either incapable of, or intentionally ignore, predictable collateral consequences. This has never been more true than during the pandemic. The left thinks they're sticking it to white, Trump supporting anti-vaxxers when in reality their policies are discriminating against black Americans and the less fortunate.

 

[NorCalDad]

Politicians are often so narrow-minded and stubborn on an issue (typically an issue that fits their narrative) that their either incapable of, or intentionally ignore, predictable collateral consequences. This has never been more true than during the pandemic. The left thinks they're sticking it to white, Trump supporting anti-vaxxers when in reality their policies are discriminating against black Americans and the less fortunate.

I pretty much disagree with everything you just said. Pretty myopic.

 

[NorCalDad]

Why create another data base? Is this 100% accessible to all? Will the homeless not be allowed into starbucks to use the bathroom if they don't present a vaccine passport on their smartphone?

Don't know if you've ever been to NYC, not too many public restrooms available. Imagine the line at The Shops at Columbus Circle for the public restroom? They are already long on a normal day. Now imgaine having to scan your vaccine passport to use the bathroom.

Seems like maybe you chose the wrong word. Upwards of 95% of homeless people have cell phones, 80% of which are smart phones. I don't think that's as big of an issue as you think it is. Lack of public restrooms is an issue in pretty much every large city. San Francisco is a great example. It's a problem, no doubt, but that has nothing to do with vaccination certification. It really can't get any worse than it already is. I've seen things in SF that I wish I hadn't.

 

[espola]

Just to state the obvious -- You can also still use the paper card.

 

[what-happened]

Seems like maybe you chose the wrong word. Upwards of 95% of homeless people have cell phones, 80% of which are smart phones. I don't think that's as big of an issue as you think it is. Lack of public restrooms is an issue in pretty much every large city. San Francisco is a great example. It's a problem, no doubt, but that has nothing to do with vaccination certification. It really can't get any worse than it already is. I've seen things in SF that I wish I hadn't.

The restroom comment is facetious and directed at the idea of having to scan your phone to enter the shops by those with smart phones.

Don't know how much you work with the homeless. Many do have cell phones and it's proven to be a somewhat effective way to provide health care. having a cell phone and using a cell phone are two different things. Let's not hijack this thread though. Cell phone usage amongst the homeless isn't the same as those people who live outside of their situation.

 

[lafalafa]

Seems like maybe you chose the wrong word. Upwards of 95% of homeless people have cell phones, 80% of which are smart phones. I don't think that's as big of an issue as you think it is. Lack of public restrooms is an issue in pretty much every large city. San Francisco is a great example. It's a problem, no doubt, but that has nothing to do with vaccination certification. It really can't get any worse than it already is. I've seen things in SF that I wish I hadn't.

Huh? Maybe in your area?

95% Of homeless with cell phone service?

I've Volunteer with The Shower of Hope in the LA metro area and I would say about 33% had/have cell phone service.

Any documentation or identification can be difficult for some homeless including paper.

 

[whatithink]

It's not weird. Just because the EU does it doesn't mean we need to do it.

1. Going 100% complete digital would increase inequality off the bat. The homeless, the disabled, and 40% of those over 65 don't have smart phones.
2. Why create anothe new data base for amassing personal data?
3. What's wrong with a paper version? passports seem to work just fine NOT being digital?

Let's work on getting the vaccine equitably distributed. There is plenty of work to be done in getting people vaccinated. Creating a hard to construct digital infrastructure to show proof of vaccination is a waste of time and money.

It's interesting that at first, our governmen clearly expressed zero interest in creating a federal system to track vaccination. Now we are slowly reversing course. Plenty of social pressure being placed to go the route that EU is trying to create. The EU isn' there yet with a central system.

So,

1. The EU one is either digital or paper - it literally said that in what I quoted
2. meh, its like the TSA precheck - the EU one is for ease of travel - and I don't see anyone screaming about that.
3. Nothing, you can do the paper all you want.
   1. BTW, you do know that IDs in the US are going digital, e.g. "Tech giant Apple has announced that eight US states will start accepting driver’s licenses and other state IDs that are stored on iPhones and Apple Watch. Arizona and Georgia will be the first states to allow their residents to use this system, and will be followed by Connecticut, Iowa, Kentucky, Maryland, Oklahoma and Utah."

 

[what-happened]

Huh? Maybe in your area?

95% Of homeless with cell phone service?

I've Volunteer with The Shower of Hope in the LA metro area and I would say about 33% had/have cell phone service.

Any documentation or identification can be difficult for some homeless including paper.

Don't bother. The Homeless and phones usage is a complex and layered issue. Having a phone doesn't mean using a phone. The numbers he pulled are from self reported surveys. The homeless are very hard to poll and are very hard to support with government sponsored programs that provide them cell services to leverage health care and assistance
The point is that digital vaccination passports will not be inclusive of certain populations. To think it's a panacea is short sighted.

 

[kickingandscreaming]

I pretty much disagree with everything you just said. Pretty myopic.

You disagree that the vaccine requirements don't inordinately affect POC. Pretty ignorant.

 

[what-happened]

So,

1. The EU one is either digital or paper - it literally said that in what I quoted
2. meh, its like the TSA precheck - the EU one is for ease of travel - and I don't see anyone screaming about that.
3. Nothing, you can do the paper all you want.
   1. BTW, you do know that IDs in the US are going digital, e.g. "Tech giant Apple has announced that eight US states will start accepting driver’s licenses and other state IDs that are stored on iPhones and Apple Watch. Arizona and Georgia will be the first states to allow their residents to use this system, and will be followed by Connecticut, Iowa, Kentucky, Maryland, Oklahoma and Utah."

I get it. We are being collected on all the time and there are things that we do that make our life more convenient. Vaccine passports will discriminate. People should be screaming about that. Funny that they are not.

Vaccine passports for a disease that will eventually become endemic?

 

[Grace T.]

Things are heating up in the work places, City of LA, and 5-11 children.

UCLA anesthesiologist, vocal against COVID vaccine mandates, is escorted out of workplace

UCLA anesthesiologist Dr. Christopher B. Rake was escorted out of his workplace for not being vaccinated against COVID-19.

www.latimes.com

City of LA indoor vax mandate nov29

Garcetti signs COVID vaccine mandate for indoor spaces starting Nov. 29

Mayor Garcetti has signed an ordinance to require people in Los Angeles to show proof of vaccination before entering indoor establishments.

abc7.com

Pfizer officially asks FDA to greenlight vaccine for kids ages 5-11

Pfizer officially asks FDA to greenlight vaccine for kids ages 5-11

FDA's advisers are scheduled to debate the evidence later this month.

abc7.com

Us census bureau is apparently reporting 1 in 12 children is now homeschooled. There are a bunch of reasons for it including: COVID fear, shutdown fears/restrictions such as on after school care and busing/quarantine fears, COVID protocols at school like masks, the CRT theory debate, etc. But mandating the vaccine for 5-11 is going to have an impact (probably small but nevertheless an impact...especially with the younger ones). It's also going to further exacerbate our labor problems as women bear the brunt of childcare.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1445871816405258248

 

[dad4]

I get it. We are being collected on all the time and there are things that we do that make our life more convenient. Vaccine passports will discriminate. People should be screaming about that. Funny that they are not.

Vaccine passports for a disease that will eventually become endemic?

I think most required vaccinations are for endemic diseases.

 

[Grace T.]

Projecting?

I don’t think you understood the post.

Grace posted a garbage pseudo-study, and I explained why it was garbage.

No one was even pretending to predict the future. The twitter dude made an attempt to explain the past, and I explained why it was trash - statistically speaking.

If the sample size is too small it's because Florida cases are declining so rapidly that kids aren't getting sick so there isn't a huge pool there. In which case, again, what's the rationale for masking kids?

 

[Desert Hound]

Ok, now tell us how large an effect would need to be to get reportable results with n=54 and m=13.

You will almost never get reportable results with numbers that small. This is why it's on Twitter. Any real publication will take one look at the sample size and dismiss it as horribly underpowered.

You know what we do know?

That kids in school are not a risk.

Last year you were VERY concerned about the states sending their kids back to school. You were also very worried about colleges having classes. Assuring us that this indeed would be very bad.

What did the data show?

There was no concern.

And that ties in with masks or no masks in school. It won't make a difference one way. The first way is they dont really work. The 2nd and most important reason is these age groups have zero risk.

Putting a mask on a kid or a college student is just safety theater. It in no way changes the risk profile with is NIL.

That is why when they study areas where kids wore masks in schools vs those with no masks...they cannot find any real difference in outcomes.

 

[Desert Hound]

Any real publication will take one look at the sample size and dismiss it as horribly underpowered.

And yet over the past year or so I have seen you highlight reports with small sample sizes as proof. The hair dresser example with a 100 people or so is one that you have used a variety of times as just one example.

Consistency on your part? FAIL

 

[GoldenGate]

I pretty much disagree with everything you just said. Pretty myopic.

Racists try to make themselves feel better by rationalizing that the negative consequences of any government action they don't like have an outsized impact on the poor and therefore minorities. The problem, of course, is that the negative consequences of any government action - or inaction - always have outsized impacts on the poor, especially when you ignore all the positive benefits of those policies like Watfly does. The poor obviously can't get vaccinated nearly as easily as the wealthy even when it is free. The poor have less access to quality remote education, or safe in person education at fancy schools with a lot of cash to take precautions. The poor have far less ability to socially distance at work because a higher percentage work manufacturing or logistics where they can't just come in the back and close the door to their posh admin offices. The poor have much less access to quality healthcare if they get sick. Of course, the racists' solution is not to help the poor overcome any of these systemic problems in society. Rather, it is to make them worse and then rationalize ridiculously stupid things like how we should discourage vaccination because that's what is obviously best for the people who manufacture all the poultry they want to stay at $5.00 a pound without regard to how many processing plant workers die. Or oppose vaccine mandates for hospital staff because Cedar Sinai has a shit ton of staff and pretty swanky accommodations to limit spread in the most spreadable places on the planet, whereas hospitals in the Central Valley and most poor areas lack those resources. People like Watfly want less quality public education for the poor because they think that costs them money and they want to keep away from their own kids' nice schools. They want to provide even less healthcare access for the poor because they think it costs them money although, not surprisingly, they are totally cool with the billions and billions that their dumbfuck bumpkin anti-vaxxers cultists are racking up in ventilator costs for no reason other than sheer stupidity. But Watfly sure as shit wants all the garbage he buys on Amazon delivered without delays or cost increases regardless of how many people working low income jobs manufacturing and warehousing need it die.

Watfly is not "doing it for the black people." He's like a shit ton of Herman Cain Award winners who try to rationalize their own lack of empathy towards the poor and racism by claiming that things like free vaccines, free ipads and internet access for the needy, free healthcare, free anything that benefits the poor is racist.

https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/comments/pxiji8

https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/comments/q0vw1x

https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/comments/pgeno3

https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/comments/pqam6z

https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/comments/pn5un2

https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCain...his_winner_had_some_advanced_brain_worms_and/
https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCain...t_insurrection_supporting_grandpa_said_no_to/
https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCain.../man_posts_antivax_and_racist_memes_daughter/
https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCain...ryone_meet_derek_a_racist_antivaxxer_who_met/
https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/comments/pfvwxy/racist_grandma_is_outta_time/
https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCain...t_steven_is_with_the_lord_now_if_the_lord_is/
https://www.reddit.com/r/HermanCainAward/comments/pcse8y/hc_freedom_award_for_this_racist_asshole/

 

[whatithink]

I get it. We are being collected on all the time and there are things that we do that make our life more convenient. Vaccine passports will discriminate. People should be screaming about that. Funny that they are not.

Vaccine passports for a disease that will eventually become endemic?

Vaccine passports are a choice. You are free to get one or not. Why would anyone be screaming about freedom of choice? Isn't freedom the American way? I do understand people screaming when someone takes away your freedom to choose. That's very un-American, you know, taking away our freedoms and trying to mandate what we can and cannot do with our bodies, especially when it only impact some Americans, but not all - that's certainly discrimination.