Vaccine

Grace T. said:
You could do what I suggested from the beginning and rather than have blanket national or statewide lockdowns you reserved them (and whatever effectiveness they had) for periods of severe COVID, you could have moved a lot of activities outdoors (I was saying this in April 2020), and you could have had a more productive mask policy that emphasized N95/KN95 production instead of cloth masks (again was saying this in April 2020). You could have also said, hey, maybe the BLM protests weren't the best idea in the middle of a pandemic (particularly after we came down on the churches), schools should have been open in fall of 2020, citizens encouraged to get exercise and vitamin D, not deliberately lied to them about health policies and been honest with them, not played politics with the vaccine, fired/retired Fauci (who has been a disaster on messaging), sheltered the nursing homes (I came out against the Cuomo policies in March 2020), and not exempted certain high risk things (like air travel and construction) when you actually were doing lockdowns.
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You have a very selective memory. You also spent a good 16 months here telling people that masks do not work. Nor did you support any of the original closures- indoor or outdoor.

Had we followed your advice at the time, we would have had a nationwide prime spike in April/May 2020. Peak would have been over long before your new N95 factories came online. Best guess for that plan is the old Imperial College 2.2 million deaths estimate.

About 3x as many deaths as we got with what we did.
 
what-happened said:
Internet medicine again? What cures are forthcoming? Are you referring to maybe, possibly, expanding on disease management capability? Or is there a magical pill on the FDA's horizon. Pills are where the money is. Easy to manufacture, easy to patent, easy to stockpile, and resiliant to staying on pharmacy shelves. Easy money.
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I posted this in the good news thread Monday --

www.cnn.com

A pill to treat Covid-19: 'We're talking about a return to, maybe, normal life' | CNN

Antivirals are already essential treatments for other viral infections, including hepatitis C and HIV. One of the best known is Tamiflu, the widely prescribed pill that can shorten the duration of influenza and reduce the risk of hospitalization if given quickly.
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com
 
watfly said:
You mention "care rationing" a lot. The lockdown and the fear mongering actually caused, far more "care rationing" and "care avoidance" than the actual Covid infection did. The full extent of the repercussions of the lockdown and fear "care rationing/avoidance" are still yet to be seen.
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The only fearmongering I have seen is from the antivax crowd.
 
watfly said:
You mention "care rationing" a lot. The lockdown and the fear mongering actually caused, far more "care rationing" and "care avoidance" than the actual Covid infection did. The full extent of the repercussions of the lockdown and fear "care rationing/avoidance" are still yet to be seen.
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If we had not done the lockdowns/masks, we would have had the 2.2 million deaths that Imperial College forecast. All compressed into one really bad summer.

If that had happened, people would have started avoiding medical centers all on their own. You get the same care avoidance result, just more intense.
 
watfly said:
You mention "care rationing" a lot. The lockdown and the fear mongering actually caused, far more "care rationing" and "care avoidance" than the actual Covid infection did. The full extent of the repercussions of the lockdown and fear "care rationing/avoidance" are still yet to be seen.
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This is very true. Just like we are beginning to see the effects for example on the supply chains.
 
dad4 said:
If we had not done the lockdowns/masks, we would have had the 2.2 million deaths that Imperial College forecast. All compressed into one really bad summer.
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Pure speculation, and there is no basis in reality for that conclusion. It surprises me you still put any faith in Covid forecasts. There just isn't any compelling evidence that any approach from various countries or states resulted in better or worse results from a Covid standpoint. Unemployment and economics? Yes. Covid? No.
 
dad4 said:
You have a very selective memory. You also spent a good 16 months here telling people that masks do not work. Nor did you support any of the original closures- indoor or outdoor.

Had we followed your advice at the time, we would have had a nationwide prime spike in April/May 2020. Peak would have been over long before your new N95 factories came online. Best guess for that plan is the old Imperial College 2.2 million deaths estimate.

About 3x as many deaths as we got with what we did.
Click to expand...

See the federalist article I posted. YOU have a very selective memory because your religious views bend you to seeing the world a certain way.

I always said lockdowns should have been targeted and no outdoor lockdowns. I also didn't say in low risk areas to just have at it (I supported a Sweden strategy with some restrictions such as shuttering Disneyland). I also didn't say masks do not work...I said on a macro level they only work a little (at least against the prime).

But your "nationwide prime" spike is a fallacy. First, due to seasonality, we were heading into a time period where the climate worked in our favor. Second, the Imperial College models have been shown to be absolute failures (most recently in predicting that despite England dropping restrictions cases would spiral out of control)....burn the models was another approach we should have probably followed. Third, the problem with lockdowns (as I said at the time) was the population would only honor them for a short period of time...you needed to save your ammo at times the hospitals were in danger of being overflooded, which in a country the size of the US with different climates and seasons wouldn't have happened all at once.
 
kickingandscreaming said:
Based on how accurate predictions have been? Predictions are made and when they are incorrect, it is attributed to changed behavior. Can't lose that way.
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Well the predictions about the exponential growth in England once the restrictions were dropped should have put a nail in the coffins in the modelers. They were just wrong about everything. I'm with watfly here....it's surprising he still puts any stock in them, but that's what happens with religious talismans.
 
espola said:
I posted this in the good news thread Monday --

www.cnn.com

A pill to treat Covid-19: 'We're talking about a return to, maybe, normal life' | CNN

Antivirals are already essential treatments for other viral infections, including hepatitis C and HIV. One of the best known is Tamiflu, the widely prescribed pill that can shorten the duration of influenza and reduce the risk of hospitalization if given quickly.
www.cnn.com www.cnn.com
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That is good news, especially for the pharma world. Easier to make more money. Easier to manufacture, distribute, store, etc. With that said, people are more apt to pop a pill than to line up for a shot. Mabye those crazy anti vaxxers can be saved yet.

Not a cure but a treatment.
 
Grace T. said:
See the federalist article I posted. YOU have a very selective memory because your religious views bend you to seeing the world a certain way.

I always said lockdowns should have been targeted and no outdoor lockdowns. I also didn't say in low risk areas to just have at it (I supported a Sweden strategy with some restrictions such as shuttering Disneyland). I also didn't say masks do not work...I said on a macro level they only work a little (at least against the prime).

But your "nationwide prime" spike is a fallacy. First, due to seasonality, we were heading into a time period where the climate worked in our favor. Second, the Imperial College models have been shown to be absolute failures (most recently in predicting that despite England dropping restrictions cases would spiral out of control)....burn the models was another approach we should have probably followed. Third, the problem with lockdowns (as I said at the time) was the population would only honor them for a short period of time...you needed to save your ammo at times the hospitals were in danger of being overflooded, which in a country the size of the US with different climates and seasons wouldn't have happened all at once.
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Federalist is a humor magazine, not a medical journal.

Explain your concept of "seasonality" in light of the fact that the biggest surge occurred in the Summer.
 
watfly said:
Pure speculation, and there is no basis in reality for that conclusion. It surprises me you still put any faith in Covid forecasts. There just isn't any compelling evidence that any approach from various countries or states resulted in better or worse results from a Covid standpoint. Unemployment and economics? Yes. Covid? No.
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There is significant evidence that, aside from vaccines, the US approach has done considerably worse than most countries.

If you can't admit that much, you're in one heck of an information bubble.
 
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