Bad News Thread

dad4 said:
Think of it as a counterexample to Watfly’s claim that Americans inherently step up to a challenge and address crises. This was a case where, when faced with evidence of a crisis, we did exactly the thing which causes it to get worse.
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In terms of Covid only outcomes, arguably your correct. In terms of overall outcomes, the government overreach made things much worse. If we had let American ingenuity take the lead we would have been far better off economically, educationally and medically in regards to non-Covid health impacts. The pandemic has created a whole new class of those dependent on the government. If there is any question about that ask any business owner trying to hire right now (and spare me the Biden excuse that the jobs being offered just aren't good enough)
 
Desert Hound said:
By the way the western vaccines seem rather effective vs Mr Delta.

Take a look at the UK. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/

Now on the other hand the Russian vaccine appears to be a failure, much like the Chi Com sinovac.

Russia has the Delta variant as well. Cases are rising as are deaths.
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Are the Russian deaths rising even among the vaccinated (haven't seen that) or is it that just so many people aren't vaccinated because they don't trust the Russian government's vaccine efforts?
 
watfly said:
In terms of Covid only outcomes, arguably your correct. In terms of overall outcomes, the government overreach made things much worse. If we had let American ingenuity take the lead we would have been far better off economically, educationally and medically in regards to non-Covid health impacts. The pandemic has created a whole new class of those dependent on the government. If there is any question about that ask any business owner trying to hire right now (and spare me the Biden excuse that the jobs being offered just aren't good enough)
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We, the people, held the parties which made this worse. Not we, the government.

Why is it that covid is making all the conservatives here talk about things the government should do? We have very clear evidence that our personal actions made the pandemic worse. This is not a governmental question.
 
dad4 said:
We, the people, held the parties which made this worse. Not we, the government.

Why is it that covid is making all the conservatives here talk about things the government should do? We have very clear evidence that our personal actions made the pandemic worse. This is not a governmental question.
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People dont make policy. Governments do. Like the prohibition preachers, you can't see the distinction.

The better question is o.k. you've preached. People don't listen to you. Now what you gonna do?
 
dad4 said:
We, the people, held the parties which made this worse. Not we, the government.

Why is it that covid is making all the conservatives here talk about things the government should do? We have very clear evidence that our personal actions made the pandemic worse. This is not a governmental question.
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Again we're talking past each other. You only want to talk about Covid, I want to talk about the whole picture. We the people didn't close schools, businesses, and non-emergency health care. Politicians did. We the people were willing to get creative to stay open. Would it have been the perfect solution to fighting Covid, nope, but neither were lockdowns, and the non-Covid impacts are significantly worse and longer term with lockdowns.

Part of making good public policy is making policy that is realistic and the public is likely to follow. You can't scare the American public into following policies that are contradictory to its culture, even if you have the media as an accomplice.
 
Grace T. said:
That's the difference in our philosophies. I approach policy knowing people sometimes are devils and will fail. You approach it hoping that people will be angels. When that fails, as it inevitably must, you get frustrated and fall back on authoritarianism. That's also why you are doing religion, instead of policy, preaching for folks to be better.
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Talk about a twisted narrative! You type that with a straight face?
 
Kicker4Life said:
What are governments doing to fight the global obesity pandemic?

I think Grace’s point is well within the scope of the core question as it appears when we shut down all options people will inherently find a way to be around other people, it’s in our nature.
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You mean amongst the emotionally driven. Try thinking, reason, personal responsibility and caring about your effect on others.
 
watfly said:
Again we're talking past each other. You only want to talk about Covid, I want to talk about the whole picture. We the people didn't close schools, businesses, and non-emergency health care. Politicians did. We the people were willing to get creative to stay open. Would it have been the perfect solution to fighting Covid, nope, but neither were lockdowns, and the non-Covid impacts are significantly worse and longer term with lockdowns.

Part of making good public policy is making policy that is realistic and the public is likely to follow. You can't scare the American public into following policies that are contradictory to its culture, even if you have the media as an accomplice.
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“Politicians did”? Lol! Please, you crack me up with your myopic viewpoint.
 
So what’s the story in the UK?

Drastic spike in cases, 46% of which are vaccinated and the Govt is basically saying “screw it” and lifting all restrictions.

Are they saying restrictions don’t work, the vaccine doesn’t work, or both?
 
espola said:
Is that so? Is fear the reason we no longer allow the sale of radium-infused water, or is it a rational response to a demonstrated threat?
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very little of the response has been rational. It’s been political, fearful, or just plain guessed at. Remember they’d been planning a response to this for years. They tore up the playbook and decided to go China lite (which failed everywhere in the world….only China like seemed to work or turning your border into an island fortress).
 
texanincali said:
So what’s the story in the UK?

Drastic spike in cases, 46% of which are vaccinated and the Govt is basically saying “screw it” and lifting all restrictions.

Are they saying restrictions don’t work, the vaccine doesn’t work, or both?
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the vaccine does very well at preventing hospitalizations and deaths. The vaccine decouples cases v hospitalization/death. The deaths projected we are looking at are now on par for the coming year with a moderate-bad flu season. We don’t do these restrictions every time we have a bad flu season, and everyone who wants one has been offered the vaccine (handful of exceptions such as kids under 12 who aren’t affected much anyways) therefor it’s rational to lift the restrictions
 
Grace T. said:
very little of the response has been rational. It’s been political, fearful, or just plain guessed at. Remember they’d been planning a response to this for years. They tore up the playbook and decided to go China lite (which failed everywhere in the world….only China like seemed to work or turning your border into an island fortress).
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Which "they" are we talking about here? Fauci and the CDC realists, or t and his chorus of deniers?
 
espola said:
Which "they" are we talking about here? Fauci and the CDC realists, or t and his chorus of deniers?
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Trump can't escape responsibility here either. He went along with Fauci and didn't fire him (though in fairness the question of whether he had the legal capacity to fire him from his post at the NIH is a thorny one).
 
Grace T. said:
Trump can't escape responsibility here either. He went along with Fauci and didn't fire him (though in fairness the question of whether he had the legal capacity to fire him from his post at the NIH is a thorny one).
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Went along? Trump treated his scientific advisors like contestants on the apprentice. You don’t get good advice out of scientists by attacking them on Twitter multiple times per day.
 
dad4 said:
Went along? Trump treated his scientific advisors like contestants on the apprentice. You don’t get good advice out of scientists by attacking them on Twitter multiple times per day.
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from the emails it’s pretty clear fauci encouraged the idea it would go away. The masks, border closure, lockdowns, vaccines, stimulus 1…none of it was trumps idea. You can’t have it both ways: either he’s a moron incapable of a rational thought in which case he was largely listening to what they (including his son in law) were telling him, or he’s a mad genius that came up with all this stuff and fauci was asleep at the wheel. You can say he followed the advice reluctantly and doing what he could to undermine it but it was only his responsibility in a buck stops here sort of way (the same way Biden has now missed his own vaccination goals)
 
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