Bad News Thread

[dad4]

When everyone has had the opportunity to be vaccinated, it is the right question.

Much as I am annoyed by team virus, I don’t actually want to see them dead.

It also depends on whether people are unvaccinated due to a conscious choice, or some other problem. Some people make a choice to not get vaccinated. Others may just be having trouble navigating the county bureaucracy. I can use a computer to make an appointment, drive there in my car, read and follow direction signs, and get my shot. If I ever get confused, the first person I ask for help will speak my native tongue. But just because the process works for me doesn’t mean it works for everyone.

To the extent that these other problems account for the remaining unvaccinated people, it seems unreasonable to say that everyone has had n opportunity to be vaccinated. I certainly would not make that claim until a few weeks after the clinics start accepting walk ins without appointments.

 

[Grace T.]

I certainly would not make that claim until a few weeks after the clinics start accepting walk ins without appointments.

That’s already happening in SoCal (at least la and vc). There are appointment only govt centers and you still just can’t walk into cvs but yeah all this week and weekend there have been clinics with free to walk on. In many red states due to the lower demand and greater reliance on the private sector that’s already the case.

 

[kickingandscreaming]

Much as I am annoyed by team virus, I don’t actually want to see them dead.

It also depends on whether people are unvaccinated due to a conscious choice, or some other problem. Some people make a choice to not get vaccinated. Others may just be having trouble navigating the county bureaucracy. I can use a computer to make an appointment, drive there in my car, read and follow direction signs, and get my shot. If I ever get confused, the first person I ask for help will speak my native tongue. But just because the process works for me doesn’t mean it works for everyone.

To the extent that these other problems account for the remaining unvaccinated people, it seems unreasonable to say that everyone has had n opportunity to be vaccinated. I certainly would not make that claim until a few weeks after the clinics start accepting walk ins without appointments.

Agreed. I am certainly not ready to make that claim yet. I believe I stated previously maybe by the end of May, but I am open to changing that if there are people that legitimately want the vaccine and don't have access. BTW, I don't want them dead either, but I feel it's more important to respect individual choice than to attempt to force people to get the vaccine against their will.

 

[crush]

Agreed. I am certainly not ready to make that claim yet. I believe I stated previously maybe by the end of May, but I am open to changing that if there are people that legitimately want the vaccine and don't have access. BTW, I don't want them dead either, but I feel it's more important to respect individual choice than to attempt to force people to get the vaccine against their will.

Thanks bro. I just had bday lunch with the Out-Laws. Everyone and I mean everyone got their shots. My wife and I were the only ones who didn't convert. No one dared ask us why we are a big fat no and always will be.

 

[Glitterhater]

Believe it or not, I am just now able to get my first vaccine Tuesday; And it's not through my HCP- it's at a pharmacy inside a grocery store!

I was in this last group of eligibility and I think once they opened to 16+ it became hard again to find an appt, I do know lots of 20 somethings that are ready to freely travel and party and jumped to get it.

Point being, I could see how it may be a bit harder (like Dad was saying,) for a non-native speaker. I was using websites, text lines, FB groups, etc, which is how I found out about the pharmacy site.

 

[kickingandscreaming]

Believe it or not, I am just now able to get my first vaccine Tuesday; And it's not through my HCP- it's at a pharmacy inside a grocery store!

I was in this last group of eligibility and I think once they opened to 16+ it became hard again to find an appt, I do know lots of 20 somethings that are ready to freely travel and party and jumped to get it.

Point being, I could see how it may be a bit harder (like Dad was saying,) for a non-native speaker. I was using websites, text lines, FB groups, etc, which is how I found out about the pharmacy site.

Yes, I used vaccinespotter. I was in a group that was prioritized a few weeks before they opened to everyone 16 and up, and 5 weeks ago it was not easy to find availability. The other thing to consider is that after everyone has a legitimate opportunity to get their first shot, we need to add about 4 weeks to that so they get their second shot. I'd be surprised if there was much of a population that still wanted the shot come mid-May and couldn't get it reasonably easily. We'll see.

 

[dad4]

Agreed. I am certainly not ready to make that claim yet. I believe I stated previously maybe by the end of May, but I am open to changing that if there are people that legitimately want the vaccine and don't have access. BTW, I don't want them dead either, but I feel it's more important to respect individual choice than to attempt to force people to get the vaccine against their will.

SCC did a survey and found that 90% of adults plan to get the shot.

If that is accurate, cases will be in free fall before they run out of willing vaccine recipients. Vaccine + prior exposure will be about 80%. 84% once they approve Pfizer for 12 year olds.

It's a harder ethical question for the red states. Some of them will run out of willing vaccine takers before they reach herd immunity. For them, allowing vaccine refusal also means adding risk to immuno-compromised people.

 

[Grace T.]

Another hotel case, this time in Perth in a quarantine hotel...couple caught it from travelers from India in the room across the hall. This time though it’s set off a scramble with Perth going into lockdown and fear of leakage into eastern australia from plane flights. Worries now are they may need to go into their 4th national lockdown if things continue to leak which includes in their case restrictions between regions. Adding to their struggle is they are relying heavily on the az vaccine and have had now 6 blood clot cases.

 

[Glitterhater]

SCC did a survey and found that 90% of adults plan to get the shot.

If that is accurate, cases will be in free fall before they run out of willing vaccine recipients. Vaccine + prior exposure will be about 80%. 84% once they approve Pfizer for 12 year olds.

It's a harder ethical question for the red states. Some of them will run out of willing vaccine takers before they reach herd immunity. For them, allowing vaccine refusal also means adding risk to immuno-compromised people.

I'm definitely not saying anything like "well- their own fault." But- if we have a known weapon against it, and they refuse it... ?

One issue I do take issue with in terms of allowing refusal, is sure- not much risk for healthy, young/youngish individuals. However- we have a slew of childhood cancer patients who absolutely cannot get sick with this. When put that way, it seems extremely selfish not to take it if you're a healthy person.

What's even more ironic is those in the anti-camp are likely the same crowd that thought we were idiotic for sacrificing the lives of children, (closing schools, etc,) for the elderly. But- those same people don't jump to protect the children who cannot protect themselves, either.

 

[Glitterhater]

SCC did a survey and found that 90% of adults plan to get the shot.

If that is accurate, cases will be in free fall before they run out of willing vaccine recipients. Vaccine + prior exposure will be about 80%. 84% once they approve Pfizer for 12 year olds.

It's a harder ethical question for the red states. Some of them will run out of willing vaccine takers before they reach herd immunity. For them, allowing vaccine refusal also means adding risk to immuno-compromised people.

I swear I did not see your last sentence when I replied. LOL! We are saying the same thing, I think?

 

[Grace T.]

More than 1/2 of Kansas counties have refused their allotment of vaccine for this week due to lack of demand.

 

[Glitterhater]

More than 1/2 of Kansas counties have refused their allotment of vaccine for this week due to lack of demand.

I really would like to know if people were this hesitant for things like Polio, etc. From what I've been told- no. They would line up and clammor to get vaccinated. It's just crazy to me how today's world of fake news, (which btw, I read a stat somewhere that said fake news is shared like 5x more than real news,) has made people forget that we have science- science is not new, and FB and Twitter are not reliable news sources.

 

[Grace T.]

I really would like to know if people were this hesitant for things like Polio, etc. From what I've been told- no. They would line up and clammor to get vaccinated. It's just crazy to me how today's world of fake news, (which btw, I read a stat somewhere that said fake news is shared like 5x more than real news,) has made people forget that we have science- science is not new, and FB and Twitter are not reliable news sources.

The downturn really coincided with the Johnson and Johnson halt. It’s not the sole cause because the red states are seeing a bigger downturn than the blue states. But it was a stunning own goal that didn’t help things now that we are hitting vaccine reluctance. It doesn’t help either that the blood clots hit otherwise healthy younger women. From a risk analysis point of view they have less of a danger with covid and there’s a bit of a free rider problem (if everyone else gets vaccinated I’ll be fine) so they might figure why risk myself taking an experimental drug. Polio on the other hand struck down otherwise healthy people so everyone was at risk even if the early shots carried a risk themselves. A person under 40 has a less than .1% chance of dying from covid. A person under 40 though could have been crippled by polio ruining their life (which for some is worse than death)

 

[Glitterhater]

The downturn really coincided with the Johnson and Johnson halt. It’s not the sole cause because the red states are seeing a bigger downturn than the blue states. But it was a stunning own goal that didn’t help things now that we are hitting vaccine reluctance. It doesn’t help either that the blood clots hit otherwise healthy younger women. From a risk analysis point of view they have less of a danger with covid and there’s a bit of a free rider problem (if everyone else gets vaccinated I’ll be fine) so they might figure why risk myself taking an experimental drug. Polio on the other hand struck down otherwise healthy people so everyone was at risk even if the early shots carried a risk themselves. A person under 40 has a less than .1% chance of dying from covid. A person under 40 though could have been crippled by polio ruining their life (which for some is worse than death)

True- I agree that although you have a better chance of being struck by lightning than getting a clot from the J&J vax, those that were already on the fence pretty much said no thanks.
Re: the Polio vax, very true- the disease itself was much worse, BUT- I can't imagine the shots were as safe as they are now so I still wonder why the hesitance. There is the tired argument that this shot was developed way too fast, (we know this isn't true,) and that it was fast tracked too much. Well- we threw literally all the money we had at it which we normally can't/don't do. I found this great chart put together by a public health scientist that I should find again- it breaks down in a very unbiased way how the process was done. It wasn't in a shaming tone or meant to put anyone on blast.

 

[Hüsker Dü]

It wasn't in a shaming tone or meant to put anyone on blast.

So it’s safe for the overly sensitive?

 

[Bruddah IZ]

The item on that list that really drove it is the “ingrained idea of dissent and individualism.”

On that, we agree.

But it means we ought to take a long look in the mirror. We, as a people, did not do very well when we needed to change our behavior as individuals. We did a bad job writing the rules, and we did a bad job following them.

What happens the next time our country needs some kind of shared sacrifice? Do we all pitch in for 2 months and then give up? In many ways, it is what we did this time.

Yawn.

 

[Bruddah IZ]

South Korea, Taiwan, and Japan are major economic powers, densely populated, democracies, and deeply intwined the world economy.

All three managed to drive R below 1 and keep it there. I suspect all three have suffered less economic damage than we have.

Call it a lockdown if you like. But their policies worked and ours did not.

Simpleton.

 

[Bruddah IZ]

Asian cultures, even Aussies and Kiwis, are more able to bite the bullet and just do the damn restrictions knowing it will make things get worked out faster. Here, the land of death cults and extreme selfishness, not so much.

Asian cultures aren't as fat and unhealthy as 38% of Americans are.

 

[crush]

dad4 said:
"South Korea, Taiwan, and Japan are major economic powers, densely populated, democracies, and deeply intwined the world economy.

All three managed to drive R below 1 and keep it there. I suspect all three have suffered less economic damage than we have.

"Call it a lockdown if you like. But their policies worked and ours did not."

Hey daddy 4, me and some of the fellas on here have rounded up a one way ticket for you to go to either of the Koreas, Japan or Taiwan bro. All paid for dude plus we will pay for all your moving expenses. My brother in law teaches English in Japan and he said he can get you a math job

One way ticket just for Dad 4.

 

[dad4]

dad4 said:
"South Korea, Taiwan, and Japan are major economic powers, densely populated, democracies, and deeply intwined the world economy.

All three managed to drive R below 1 and keep it there. I suspect all three have suffered less economic damage than we have.

"Call it a lockdown if you like. But their policies worked and ours did not."

Hey daddy 4, me and some of the fellas on here have rounded up a one way ticket for you to go to either of the Koreas, Japan or Taiwan bro. All paid for dude plus we will pay for all your moving expenses. My brother in law teaches English in Japan and he said he can get you a math job

One way ticket just for Dad 4.

View attachment 10642

Gee, thanks.

You guys chipping in for a full K-pop playlist for my phone, to help me fit in when I get there?

 

[Desert Hound]

One issue I do take issue with in terms of allowing refusal, is sure- not much risk for healthy, young/youngish individuals. However- we have a slew of childhood cancer patients who absolutely cannot get sick with this. When put that way, it seems extremely selfish not to take it if you're a healthy person.

What's even more ironic is those in the anti-camp are likely the same crowd that thought we were idiotic for sacrificing the lives of children, (closing schools, etc,) for the elderly. But- those same people don't jump to protect the children who cannot protect themselves, either.

Remember since the beginning of this till now only 266 people under the age of 17 have died.

It just isn't a group that has any risk at all. So even with the "slew" of childhood cancer patients, that has not translated into large number of deaths over the past year.

So it isn't as you say of "not much risk" for young people...it is that they really have no risk at all.

To put things further into perspective.

We are at 580k deaths since the beginning of this.

TOTAL deaths of people under the age of 39 is just 8,305. Think about that number

And if we look at total deaths of people 49 and under we are at just 24,510

So it is not a surprise that a decent percentage of people under 49 are in no hurry to get vaccinated.

- The are not at risk
- The authorities are saying even after getting vaccinated they want you to wear a mask and distance (so what is the point)
- And again they really are not at risk.

Now notice the age groups at risk. Almost all the deaths are the 65-70+ aged individuals. They know they are at risk and they have logically gotten vaccinated at very high rates.