Bad News Thread

dad4 said:
How about I speak for me and you speak for you? It is simpler that way.

If it’s about individual rights and individual responsibility, then fine. Let each of us own up to the responsibility half, too.

How many indoor gatherings have you been to in the last 13 months? Doesn’t matter what it was: restaurant, hotel, vodka tasting, bar visit, dinner party, casino, hotel, etc. Count everything except grocery stores, doctor visits, and your own employment.

1? 10? 100?

I know. You want to point out my one. Fair enough. What’s your number? How many indoor gatherings have you hosted or attended?

If, as I suspect, you’ve been part of over 50 indoor gatherings, then take a long look in the mirror and think about why this plague is still with us. How many people are there who had a similar number of unnecessary indoor gatherings? Why would you expect the lockdown to work when that many people ignore the advice that often?
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You make it sound like indoor gatherings cause Covid, they clearly don't. They may be a source of outbreaks if you were stupid about it, but I'm betting that most transmissions occurred at home. Being indoors in public is a weak factor for catching Covid there are other much stronger factors at play. A "Stay at Home Order" was the worst imaginable response to the pandemic. It should have been a "Get out and Get Some Fresh Air and Excercise Order". Beaches, public parks and other outside public areas were closed. People were forced into their homes by clueless political decisions and fear mongering.

If you count hardware stores or general merchandise stores I'm way over 100 and the rest of my family is pretty high as well. 250+ days in the office spread out, but with no masks. Multiple outdoor social gatherings, a number of flights and a couple hotels. No Covid. Did I get lucky, maybe. Or are the odds just not very high if I wore a mask and maintained distance in public indoor spaces? Friends and family followed a similar approach, no Covid. I approached the pandemic like an adult that understands that life has risks, but is responsible for his own decisions.

If we have another pandemic of this nature (generally harmless, but potentially fatal to a small segment of the population), good luck getting the population to follow the stricter guidelines you propose. Fool me once...
 
dad4 said:
How about I speak for me and you speak for you? It is simpler that way.

If it’s about individual rights and individual responsibility, then fine. Let each of us own up to the responsibility half, too.

How many indoor gatherings have you been to in the last 13 months? Doesn’t matter what it was: restaurant, hotel, vodka tasting, bar visit, dinner party, casino, hotel, etc. Count everything except grocery stores, doctor visits, and your own employment.

1? 10? 100?

I know. You want to point out my one. Fair enough. What’s your number? How many indoor gatherings have you hosted or attended?

If, as I suspect, you’ve been part of over 50 indoor gatherings, then take a long look in the mirror and think about why this plague is still with us. How many people are there who had a similar number of unnecessary indoor gatherings? Why would you expect the lockdown to work when that many people ignore the advice that often?
Click to expand...
Until my folks were fully vaccinated, and beginning when I went into quarantine when I fell ill and didn't want to get others ill, zero. Remember, though, not everyone has the benefit of working from home or our lovely southern California weather.

Now you....vaccination status and when please.

Again, changing the US Constitution, turning us into an island, or turning us into polite decent folks like the Japanese is not a policy prescription.
 
watfly said:
You make it sound like indoor gatherings cause Covid, they clearly don't. They may be a source of outbreaks if you were stupid about it, but I'm betting that most transmissions occurred at home. Being indoors in public is a weak factor for catching Covid there are other much stronger factors at play. A "Stay at Home Order" was the worst imaginable response to the pandemic. It should have been a "Get out and Get Some Fresh Air and Excercise Order". Beaches, public parks and other outside public areas were closed. People were forced into their homes by clueless political decisions and fear mongering.

If you count hardware stores or general merchandise stores I'm way over 100 and the rest of my family is pretty high as well. 250+ days in the office spread out, but with no masks. Multiple outdoor social gatherings, a number of flights and a couple hotels. No Covid. Did I get lucky, maybe. Or are the odds just not very high if I wore a mask and maintained distance in public indoor spaces? Friends and family followed a similar approach, no Covid. I approached the pandemic like an adult that understands that life has risks, but is responsible for his own decisions.

If we have another pandemic of this nature (generally harmless, but potentially fatal to a small segment of the population), good luck getting the population to follow the stricter guidelines you propose. Fool me once...
Click to expand...

Another major source besides in home transmission that dad4 doesn't like to talk about, because it's not as convenient as let the bars and restaurants drown, is work....whether hospital, factory, farm, doctor's office, slaughterhouse, restaurant kitchen, or retail.
 
Grace T. said:
Until my folks were fully vaccinated, and beginning when I went into quarantine when I fell ill and didn't want to get others ill, zero. Remember, though, not everyone has the benefit of working from home or our lovely southern California weather.

Now you....vaccination status and when please.

Again, changing the US Constitution, turning us into an island, or turning us into polite decent folks like the Japanese is not a policy prescription.
Click to expand...


Ah scratch that. One of the kids just reminded me in December the plumbing broke. We vacated the house leaving the windows open so the plumbers can work....indoor gathering? He also reminds me that it was his job to go into the pharmacy to get my folks restricted meds if that counts as an indoor gathering.
 
dad4 said:
You yourself said Japan did a more mild lockdown than we did. That seems to be mild NPI + masks.

The difference may be that Japan actually followed their rules.

Compare that to us. What fraction of the country has been to at least 20 indoor gatherings in the last 14 months? We have plenty of people who spent the last year in weekly indoor gatherings, and now complain that “lockdowns don’t work”.

Well, yes. Speed limits don’t work either, if you ignore them.
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So your comping the US with an island with roughly 50% of the population size.....enough said.
 
Grace T. said:
Until my folks were fully vaccinated, and beginning when I went into quarantine when I fell ill and didn't want to get others ill, zero. Remember, though, not everyone has the benefit of working from home or our lovely southern California weather.

Now you....vaccination status and when please.

Again, changing the US Constitution, turning us into an island, or turning us into polite decent folks like the Japanese is not a policy prescription.
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you’ve been stricter than I gave you credit for.

vaccine last week. signed up the second day i was eligible.

i no longer teach in classroom.
 
dad4 said:
UK learned from them. Can we learn from them, too? Or is it more important to make excuses and play political CYA?
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Fact free stuff again.

Lets go to real world data.

UK has 1867 deaths per million....which is higher vs the US.

So just being curious as I always am, which policy should the US have mimicked that the UK did?

You mentioned the following:

Some things they did, which we can copy:

Isolate patients.
Restrict travel, including border closures.
Test and trace.
Mask up.
Close indoor gatherings.
Significant penalties for rule violations.

Do us a favor and look at real world data.
 
watfly said:
There is nothing that exhibits extreme selfishness more so than preventing children from attending school and making our youth bare the biggest burden of the pandemic lockdowns despite having an infinitesimal risk from the virus.
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And guess who has been the biggest advocate of that here on our beloved forums?
 
Hüsker Dü said:
Fear, loathing and intentional partisan disingenuous rhetoric is the sign of the trumpist.
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Again you and dad4 are welcome to set out how your utopia might have worked out in an alternate history. @dad4 apparently has been unable to do it. You are more than welcome to. Only rule is you can't alter the hand that's dealt: China still lies, Trump was the President, Fauci was the advisor, the D Congress is impeaching, Floyd gets killed, the US Constitution is as written and you can't change the Constitution, demographics or density of the US. You can change how the participants react, but that's the key to how realistic it is.
 
Hüsker Dü said:
Fear, loathing and intentional partisan disingenuous rhetoric is the sign of the trumpist.
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HMM...what exactly were the dems/press saying for the 4 yrs of Trump?

He has his finger on the button.
He is just like Hitler.
He is a Russian stooge.
and on and on and on.

The fear and loathing on the news channels and in print was something to behold. So far from reality it was amazing to watch.

Just watching the Russian story day after day was all about INTENTIONAL partisan rhetoric.

But pretend only one side of the political side does what you claim.
 
Desert Hound said:
HMM...what exactly were the dems/press saying for the 4 yrs of Trump?

He has his finger on the button.
He is just like Hitler.
He is a Russian stooge.
and on and on and on.

The fear and loathing on the news channels and in print was something to behold. So far from reality it was amazing to watch.

Just watching the Russian story day after day was all about INTENTIONAL partisan rhetoric.

But pretend only one side of the political side does what you claim.
Click to expand...
1618879239678.png
 
Grace T. said:
Again you and dad4 are welcome to set out how your utopia might have worked out in an alternate history. @dad4 apparently has been unable to do it. You are more than welcome to. Only rule is you can't alter the hand that's dealt: China still lies, Trump was the President, Fauci was the advisor, the D Congress is impeaching, Floyd gets killed, the US Constitution is as written and you can't change the Constitution, demographics or density of the US. You can change how the participants react, but that's the key to how realistic it is.
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An alternate history? Not my thing.

Admitting we messed up and trying to do better next time? Absolutely.

We still aren't there. The evidence was in months ago on masks and outdoor activity. It took a recall to get the left to open playgrounds. The right still won't support masks, no matter what the evidence is.
 
dad4 said:
An alternate history? Not my thing.

Admitting we messed up and trying to do better next time? Absolutely.

We still aren't there. The evidence was in months ago on masks and outdoor activity. It took a recall to get the left to open playgrounds. The right still won't support masks, no matter what the evidence is.
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You are essentially conceding that given the hand that was dealt, with the actors that were in place, this is what we'd get. Go back 4 years and not elect Trump or have the left care less about removing him isn't a pandemic prescription. You don't get to reshuffle the cards that are dealt. Repeatedly you've called for a variety of actions (ranging from outright Australia) to just close indoor dining and mask up without explaining how it would actually have played out given the real word conditions and cards dealt.
 
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