Bad News Thread

dad4 said:
You frequently assert that the experts are almost always wrong.

But you tend not to back it up.

So far, among early recommendations,

masks +
surfaces -
school and store closures -
bar, restaurant, and stadium closures +
stay outside delayed +

Overall, about half of the very early recommendations held up as solid policy. Given how little was known last March, that is pretty good.

The big fail was nursing home re-admits. I don’t know how much of that was bad advice, and how much was a political decision to help out a constituent industry. But it was certainly a horrible decision.

Compare the experts to the politicians. Last March, politicians were saying things like “it will be over by Easter.”. So sad, really.
Click to expand...
Wrong:
Nursing homes
Ny is the roll model
Masks (and that they are better than vaccines)
Florida will be a disaster (umpteen times)
Winter surge will cause hospitals to collapse
Little money allocated to treatments
Surface transmission
The models
The dancing on herd immunity thresholds.
Double v single vaccine dose
Masks after vaccines
His own failures in mask usage
Small gatherings 4th of july
Schools, backtracking to reopen, then defending teachers union cave
Youth sports
Europe

and I’m not keeping some List here. That’s just spitballing off the top of my head.
 
kickingandscreaming said:
Below is where Fauci disagrees with Britain's plan to delay the 2nd shot. Earlier today I posted a NYTimes article indicating the success of Britain's delay of the 2nd dose.

www.theguardian.com

Dr Anthony Fauci says US will not delay second doses of Covid vaccine

American infectious disease expert disagrees with UK’s plans to prioritise first doses
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
Click to expand...

It appears that there is some complicated calculus between the wider distribution of the first shot and the increased effectiveness of having both shots. It is clear which way will result in more deaths.
 
Grace T. said:
If you lack the knowledge to make a judgment then how do you know trump was wrong? Basically your argument comes down to trust the expert and orange man bad. I love it when you of all people throw the partisan card when you are acting in a partisan manner yourself. But as I’ve said in the past I’ll give you credit for just being lost rather than being deliberate false.
Click to expand...

Did you drink, inhale, or inject any bleach when t suggested that?
 
Grace T. said:
Wrong:
Nursing homes
Ny is the roll model
Masks (and that they are better than vaccines)
Florida will be a disaster (umpteen times)
Winter surge will cause hospitals to collapse
Little money allocated to treatments
Surface transmission
The models
The dancing on herd immunity thresholds.
Double v single vaccine dose
Masks after vaccines
His own failures in mask usage
Small gatherings 4th of july
Schools, backtracking to reopen, then defending teachers union cave
Youth sports
Europe

and I’m not keeping some List here. That’s just spitballing off the top of my head.
Click to expand...
That’s quite a list. And half of it it totally irrelevant.

I would not call it a list that proves that experts are wrong. Fauci took his mask off at a baseball game, therefore the experts are wrong?

Europe was stupid in September, therefore the experts were wrong to praise their April policies?

It’s not a list of times the experts were wrong. It’s a list of things Grace doesn’t like.

And on some of it, you are just wrong. Masks after vaccines sound silly. But they make sense if you are trying to slow down a vaccine-resistant variant. Guess what? We are trying to slow down more than one vaccine resistant variant. The more we can delay any variant peak, the more likely we can handle it with a booster shot instead of a shutdown.


I tend to agree with the single shot advocates, but the experts seem split on that one. It gets into things I don’t understand, like whether a widespread single shot increases the prevalence of vaccine resistance. Either way it turns out, half the experts on that are right and half are wrong.
 
dad4 said:
That’s quite a list. And half of it it totally irrelevant.

I would not call it a list that proves that experts are wrong. Fauci took his mask off at a baseball game, therefore the experts are wrong?

Europe was stupid in September, therefore the experts were wrong to praise their April policies?

It’s not a list of times the experts were wrong. It’s a list of things Grace doesn’t like.

And on some of it, you are just wrong. Masks after vaccines sound silly. But they make sense if you are trying to slow down a vaccine-resistant variant. Guess what? We are trying to slow down more than one vaccine resistant variant. The more we can delay any variant peak, the more likely we can handle it with a booster shot instead of a shutdown.


I tend to agree with the single shot advocates, but the experts seem split on that one. It gets into things I don’t understand, like whether a widespread single shot increases the prevalence of vaccine resistance. Either way it turns out, half the experts on that are right and half are wrong.
Click to expand...
He’s just wrong. And that’s before we get to his poor media management and bloated sense of self importance. And I left a bunch of controversial stuff too off the list like indoor dining because that one is very nuanced and complicated, or the ifr and mask flip flops, because you’ll just claim evolving information.

more than one vaccine resistant variety? Which ones? Fauci basically said it was South Africa so the argument rises and falls with that one and the proof. Slowing down variants btw is ridiculous as long as the rest of the world, particularly Latin America, is a vaccine ss and the borders of the us are open (let alone the crisis which is developing there which is on Biden). Where’s fauci on his criticism of the border if he’s so concerned about new variants getting into the us? How’d we get the uk variant anyway if travel is supposed to be restricted? Why isn’t it in the uk only where it’s suppose to be?. Btw I didn’t put the trump air shutdowns on the list because fauci defended them,even if one could say with relative lack of enthusiasm.
 
Grace T. said:
He’s just wrong. And that’s before we get to his poor media management and bloated sense of self importance. And I left a bunch of controversial stuff too off the list like indoor dining because that one is very nuanced and complicated, or the ifr and mask flip flops, because you’ll just claim evolving information.

more than one vaccine resistant variety? Which ones? Fauci basically said it was South Africa so the argument rises and falls with that one and the proof. Slowing down variants btw is ridiculous as long as the rest of the world, particularly Latin America, is a vaccine ss and the borders of the us are open (let alone the crisis which is developing there which is on Biden). Where’s fauci on his criticism of the border if he’s so concerned about new variants getting into the us? How’d we get the uk variant anyway if travel is supposed to be restricted? Why isn’t it in the uk only where it’s suppose to be?. Btw I didn’t put the trump air shutdowns on the list because fauci defended them,even if one could say with relative lack of enthusiasm.
Click to expand...
Indoor dining is controversial?

p<0.01

That’s highly significant. No controversy on this one.

You may not like the fact that indoor dining spreads covid. Ok. I don’t like it either. But that doesn’t change whether it is true.


Variants:

The four variants with a moderate ability to evade the vaccine are SA, P.1, and the two socal ones.

www.webmd.com

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Overview

COVID-19 is a new type of coronavirus that causes mild to severe cases. Here’s a quick guide on how to spot symptoms, risk factors, prevent spread of the disease, and find out what to do if you think you have it.
www.webmd.com www.webmd.com

There is also some evidence that anything with E383K may be a problem.
 
Grace T. said:
You know as well as I do he never told people to drink bleach. If you really say that’s true produce the quote. It doesn’t exist.
Click to expand...
Here you go:

”I see the disinfectant that knocks it out in a minute, one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning. As you see it gets in the lungs, it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it would be interesting to check that.”

Trying to deny something that was on national TV? Pathetic really. So sad. She’s not in a good place with the truth right now. You really hope she’ll learn to do better. :cool:
 
dad4 said:
Here you go:

”I see the disinfectant that knocks it out in a minute, one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside or almost a cleaning. As you see it gets in the lungs, it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it would be interesting to check that.”

Trying to deny something that was on national TV? Pathetic really. So sad. She’s not in a good place with the truth right now. You really hope she’ll learn to do better. :cool:
Click to expand...

Wow way to bend the truth there. You're better than that to sink to Husker/espola level. You know as well as I do he was talking about speculative future remedies (the same with UV light). It was idiotic, and showed a complete lack of understanding of reality, but no where in there does he tell people to drink bleach. The word bleach isn't even used. Sad....I have more respect for you that that.
 
dad4 said:
Indoor dining is controversial?

p<0.01

That’s highly significant. No controversy on this one.

You may not like the fact that indoor dining spreads covid. Ok. I don’t like it either. But that doesn’t change whether it is true.


Variants:

The four variants with a moderate ability to evade the vaccine are SA, P.1, and the two socal ones.

www.webmd.com

Coronavirus (COVID-19) Overview

COVID-19 is a new type of coronavirus that causes mild to severe cases. Here’s a quick guide on how to spot symptoms, risk factors, prevent spread of the disease, and find out what to do if you think you have it.
www.webmd.com www.webmd.com

There is also some evidence that anything with E383K may be a problem.
Click to expand...

I thought the Brazil variant thing had been discounted (or was well on it's way to being discounted)?

www.dailymail.co.uk

Covid jabs more effective against Brazil variant than feared

The Oxford University study found its vaccine and the jab made by Pfizer perform as well against the P.1 strain that first emerged in Manaus just as they do against the Kent variant.
www.dailymail.co.uk www.dailymail.co.uk

Even Fauci basically just came down to the South Africa variant. The SoCal variant thing is news to me, but it belies real world experience. If so, we should be seeing a rash of reinfections and given our summer levels, we would be way under the reported 40% immunity levels in Los Angeles, which means the curve shouldn't be behaving as it is. What's worse, if true, NorCal is in for a world of hurt over the next months since vaccinations may not be doing as much to slow down the rate of growth as thought. I just don't see the real world support for this conclusion. The New York variant might be a different story, I'll give you that.
 
Grace T. said:
Wow way to bend the truth there. You're better than that to sink to Husker/espola level. You know as well as I do he was talking about speculative future remedies (the same with UV light). It was idiotic, and showed a complete lack of understanding of reality, but no where in there does he tell people to drink bleach. The word bleach isn't even used. Sad....I have more respect for you that that.
Click to expand...
Perhaps I have higher standards than you for how a president uses the rhetorical power of his office.

Sure. He did not tell anyone to drink bleach. He openly mused about injecting disinfectant, while on national TV.

Sad really. No clue what his job was or how he was supposed to go about it. A real shame. Such a wasted opportunity. I should give him a nickname. Dimwit Donald.

-TheRealDad4
 
dad4 said:
Perhaps I have higher standards than you for how a president uses the rhetorical power of his office.

Sure. He did not tell anyone to drink bleach. He openly mused about injecting disinfectant, while on national TV.

Sad really. No clue what his job was or how he was supposed to go about it. A real shame. Such a wasted opportunity. I should give him a nickname. Dimwit Donald.

-TheRealDad4
Click to expand...

a. You are Buzz. "To infinity and beyond!"
b. What happened to the no insult thing? It's a good one...give you that. Good job. Not much to complain about on that one.
c. Oh I agree it was stupid. I agree that it's not a president's job to wax speculative on potential future remedies. I'd gamble he probably heard (and didn't fully understand) what someone was telling him.
d. I don't, however, really think it's any worse than a President who very clearly is showing signs of dementia, which should be equally concerning as the stupidity.
e. You proved espola's point wrong however. :cool: That's what I was responding to. You are better than his partisan hack game and shouldn't have defended it (or worse you failed to understand the distinction in the language which he was using, which isn't like you).
f. You really need to stop associating with that crowd. You are better than the knuckleheads.
 
Grace T. said:
a. You are Buzz. "To infinity and beyond!"
b. What happened to the no insult thing? It's a good one...give you that. Good job. Not much to complain about on that one.
c. Oh I agree it was stupid. I agree that it's not a president's job to wax speculative on potential future remedies. I'd gamble he probably heard (and didn't fully understand) what someone was telling him.
d. I don't, however, really think it's any worse than a President who very clearly is showing signs of dementia, which should be equally concerning as the stupidity.
e. You proved espola's point wrong however. :cool: That's what I was responding to. You are better than his partisan hack game and shouldn't have defended it (or worse you failed to understand the distinction in the language which he was using, which isn't like you).
f. You really need to stop associating with that crowd. You are better than the knuckleheads.
Click to expand...

Seriously it's really becoming a problem.
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1372937314477953027
 
crush said:
He wants ALL children to be Vaxed first. So nice of them caring for the kids like that.
Click to expand...
11.3 Pediatric Use Emergency Use Authorization of Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine in adolescents 16 and 17 years of age is based on extrapolation of safety and effectiveness from adults 18 years of age and older. Emergency Use Authorization of Pfizer BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine does not include use in individuals younger than 16 years of age.
 
Grace T. said:
Seriously it's really becoming a problem.
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1372937314477953027
Click to expand...
C,mon man, he's jogging up carpeted stairs in slippery dress shoes and he pops right up. I'd be lying if I said I haven't done that a few times jogging up stairs.

Now is he of diminished mental capacity? 100%. Compare his acuity from videos just a few years ago. The facial masking and blank stare are a dead giveaway. I suspect its primarily age related. Another tell tale sign of diminished mental capacity is the behavior of others around you. Notice how Jill finishes his sentences or corrects him and how his handlers have to guide him. Now does that make him unqualified to be President? I don't know. He's an empty suit anyway, but its not a good look on the President of the United States.
 
watfly said:
C,mon man, he's jogging up carpeted stairs in slippery dress shoes and he pops right up. I'd be lying if I said I haven't done that a few times jogging up stairs.
Click to expand...

If he had fallen once, I'd agree. I'd even buy maybe it's just he has new dress shoes that haven't been scratched at the bottom yet, but on that third fall he really loses any control. Remember when Trump had to take those teeny tiny steps on that ramp and the media lost it? This is way worse.

Also, if it appeared in isolation I'd totally discount it as an incident. But his gait has also really changed in the last month or so. It's what they call the "dementia walk". Now, I fully concede I'm not expert, but I've had several people (including my mom's dementia PT) point this out to us. It was one of the main signs they used to diagnose my mother's condition and now that we've been clued in on it, it's pretty obvious when we see her walk (and hers is not at all as bad as his). Coupled with the other things you mention, in total, it's very concerning.
 
Grace T. said:
If he had fallen once, I'd agree. I'd even buy maybe it's just he has new dress shoes that haven't been scratched at the bottom yet, but on that third fall he really loses any control. Remember when Trump had to take those teeny tiny steps on that ramp and the media lost it? This is way worse.

Also, if it appeared in isolation I'd totally discount it as an incident. But his gait has also really changed in the last month or so. It's what they call the "dementia walk". Now, I fully concede I'm not expert, but I've had several people (including my mom's dementia PT) point this out to us. It was one of the main signs they used to diagnose my mother's condition and now that we've been clued in on it, it's pretty obvious when we see her walk (and hers is not at all as bad as his). Coupled with the other things you mention, in total, it's very concerning.
Click to expand...
White House is claiming it's not the shoes but the wind. Honestly they would have been better off claiming new shoes....it would have been more believable. Either there's a gale going on there (in which case there should be some reported concern about airforce 1 going in such conditions) or the president is so elderly he gets knocked over by wind?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1372959445676875783
 
Grace T. said:
a. You are Buzz. "To infinity and beyond!"
b. What happened to the no insult thing? It's a good one...give you that. Good job. Not much to complain about on that one.
c. Oh I agree it was stupid. I agree that it's not a president's job to wax speculative on potential future remedies. I'd gamble he probably heard (and didn't fully understand) what someone was telling him.
d. I don't, however, really think it's any worse than a President who very clearly is showing signs of dementia, which should be equally concerning as the stupidity.
e. You proved espola's point wrong however. :cool: That's what I was responding to. You are better than his partisan hack game and shouldn't have defended it (or worse you failed to understand the distinction in the language which he was using, which isn't like you).
f. You really need to stop associating with that crowd. You are better than the knuckleheads.
Click to expand...
You have switched your position.

Originally, it was "he never said it".

Now it is "he never said this stupid thing; he said that other stupid thing."

That's why it was a bad choice to jump into it. You wound up having to dance around the subtle differences between two really stupid comments.

-Buzz
 
watfly said:
C,mon man, he's jogging up carpeted stairs in slippery dress shoes and he pops right up. I'd be lying if I said I haven't done that a few times jogging up stairs.

Now is he of diminished mental capacity? 100%. Compare his acuity from videos just a few years ago. The facial masking and blank stare are a dead giveaway. I suspect its primarily age related. Another tell tale sign of diminished mental capacity is the behavior of others around you. Notice how Jill finishes his sentences or corrects him and how his handlers have to guide him. Now does that make him unqualified to be President? I don't know. He's an empty suit anyway, but its not a good look on the President of the United States.
Click to expand...
He clearly isn't sharp anymore.

Notice how he hasn't given a speech before the joint houses yet? We have one every year. Not this year. I suspect he isn't up for the challenge of speaking for 90 minutes.

In terms of falling....

Problem solved.

chairforceone.jpg
 
The whole dementia thing isn't news. We knew we voted for a frail old man who will hire and listen to competent people.

So far, so good. A couple appointments I don't like, but mostly he is holding up his end of the bargain.

If we wanted an athlete, we'd have President Hawley or President AOC. I am glad we don't.
 
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