Bad News Thread

[Desert Hound]

If you go back and look at all your school posts, of which there have been quite a few, you are consistent in hammering on about the risks, or lack therein to kids, and that's pretty much it. I agree on that, and am happy my kids are in school and am in favor of safely opening schools.

I'm also aware of the risks to the adults that are required to make that happen, the teachers, custodians, maintenance people, cleaners, admins, cooks etc. You ignore them more or less all the time. That's my point.

There are little to any risks to adults teaching kids.

Go look at the data.

The overwhelming number of deaths occur to people OVER retirement age.

Those that are under retirement age that have died due to covid are overwhelmingly people with serious health issues.

So if you have serious health issues, you shouldn't be going out too much etc and that is true for any profession.

Outside of that, the math/data clearly shows there is really no risks.

About 10-11% off all deaths are from those 54 and younger. So that basically is the majority of our workforce/population. Of those deaths under 54, these are not healthy people dying. In almost all cases these are people with serious health issues. Can you tell me a story about a healthy person dying? Yep. But that is the EXCEPTION.

What does that mean? That means you and I and pretty much everyone can go to work and not WORRY about dying.

That is what the data shows.

You can pretend otherwise and be scared, but that means you have not paid attention to the data.

So no, I am not ignoring the adults as you say. I am paying attention to the data and realize these people are not at risk.

 

[dad4]

Sacrifices?

COVID killed my biz big guy. Totally killed my biz. So don't talk to me about sacrifices when I go from making money one day to having zero customers the next.

You sit there and tell people like me that we shouldn't be able to make a living while you sit at home and make your salary.

You have no idea about sacrifices. Try losing your income and still making payments for schooling, housing, cars, etc.

And that is your problem.

You can do a math problem, but you cannot interpret data when looking at the real world. You have no concept of cost/benefit. It is likely why you are not working in the private sector...you cannot apply what you know and adjust based on the actual data. You keep running around WISHING the world would confirm to want it to do.

So when you lose your biz and go from making good money to none, then you can talk about sacrifice. You advocate the closure of biz like mine and others while comfortably having a paycheck week to week. You have no concept of the fact that people need to work, to go out and do things to survive. We cannot just arbitrarily close this or that because some idiot like you deem that certain business and/or that families needs are NON ESSENTIAL.

We cannot sit here will idiots like you say kids shouldn't be in school. That somehow teachers can't go to work despite the data showing otherwise. Every other profession is putting on the shoes and going to work.

Sacrifice. You have no idea.

There is a difference between a sacrifice imposed upon you and a sacrifice you willingly accept.

The first you have in spades.

The second, whether large or small, you consistently argue against.

We’ve been round and round on cost/benefit. But it’s never data based, because we can’t even agree to accept the CDC data on indoor dining. that kind of limits our ability to assess the cost side of things.

-Usagi

 

[whatithink]

There are little to any risks to adults teaching kids.

Go look at the data.

The overwhelming number of deaths occur to people OVER retirement age.

Those that are under retirement age that have died due to covid are overwhelmingly people with serious health issues.

So if you have serious health issues, you shouldn't be going out too much etc and that is true for any profession.

Outside of that, the math/data clearly shows there is really no risks.

About 10-11% off all deaths are from those 54 and younger. So that basically is the majority of our workforce/population. Of those deaths under 54, these are not healthy people dying. In almost all cases these are people with serious health issues. Can you tell me a story about a healthy person dying? Yep. But that is the EXCEPTION.

What does that mean? That means you and I and pretty much everyone can go to work and not WORRY about dying.

That is what the data shows.

You can pretend otherwise and be scared, but that means you have not paid attention to the data.

So no, I am not ignoring the adults as you say. I am paying attention to the data and realize these people are not at risk.

I think you're ignoring the point I was making and confusing me (scared!) with someone else. My kids are in school and playing soccer. I go to the gym and play soccer every week also - have done for the past year. I do mask up, social distance and take no unnecessary "risks".

I don't disagree with your stats, but took "issue" with your presenting a subset (kids not at risk) only, related to schools reopening repeatedly.

I've been a consistent advocate of schools being open and businesses being open - and of policies that support that, funds to ensure that happens if needed and community behavior to support that.

Sorry to hear about your business. I posted a while back that the industry I work in has been devastated by this. I know the economic impact this had had on many people.

 

[Desert Hound]

There is a difference between a sacrifice imposed upon you and a sacrifice you willingly accept.

See here is the problem.

You want to impose your views on people and as such make certain segments of our society sacrifice their biz/savings/etc. In other words what you have been advocating has nothing to do with free will.

And unfortunately there are other idiots who have the political power to enforce what you like.

There is nothing willingly accepted there.

Further as data comes in over the past year, we see these gov policies are not effective.

95% of kids in CA have not been in class this year. The opposite is true in places like FL and TX. And guess what? They have not have the massive problems you and others predicted would happen.

In just 3-4 more weeks we will also likely see that TX who has lifted restrictions will not have a reversal of fortune. You where/are aghast at what they did...and what other states are now doing.

 

[Desert Hound]

I think you're ignoring the point I was making and confusing me (scared!) with someone else. My kids are in school and playing soccer. I go to the gym and play soccer every week also - have done for the past year. I do mask up, social distance and take no unnecessary "risks".

I don't disagree with your stats, but took "issue" with your presenting a subset (kids not at risk) only, related to schools reopening repeatedly.

I've been a consistent advocate of schools being open and businesses being open - and of policies that support that, funds to ensure that happens if needed and community behavior to support that.

Sorry to hear about your business. I posted a while back that the industry I work in has been devastated by this. I know the economic impact this had had on many people.

Fair enough. If I misinterpreted your point(s) I apologize. The above post by you is clarification enough.

 

[crush]

Sacrifices?

COVID killed my biz big guy. Totally killed my biz. So don't talk to me about sacrifices when I go from making money one day to having zero customers the next.

You sit there and tell people like me that we shouldn't be able to make a living while you sit at home and make your salary.

You have no idea about sacrifices. Try losing your income and still making payments for schooling, housing, cars, etc.

And that is your problem.

You can do a math problem, but you cannot interpret data when looking at the real world. You have no concept of cost/benefit. It is likely why you are not working in the private sector...you cannot apply what you know and adjust based on the actual data. You keep running around WISHING the world would confirm to want it to do.

So when you lose your biz and go from making good money to none, then you can talk about sacrifice. You advocate the closure of biz like mine and others while comfortably having a paycheck week to week. You have no concept of the fact that people need to work, to go out and do things to survive. We cannot just arbitrarily close this or that because some idiot like you deem that certain business and/or that families needs are NON ESSENTIAL.

We cannot sit here will idiots like you say kids shouldn't be in school. That somehow teachers can't go to work despite the data showing otherwise. Every other profession is putting on the shoes and going to work.

Sacrifice. You have no idea.

I'm sorry Hound about loss of income. I mean that 100% I know that story all too well. Assholes on here 12 months ago said the reason some feel the $$$ pain is because no rainy fund was saved. I met you once and you seem like one who saved for a rainy day. I'm sure you werent planning for 12 months of non stop rain and flooding, right? I'm praying for you, the others like you, the kids and all the Seniors WHO had to sacrifice their last year of HS school because of liars and cheaters and asshole math folks who mislead the public on purpose. Just wait Hound, Karma is coming and it is coming hard for many this time. When kids are being abused and used by assholes, the day of reckoning is fast approaching. Stay out of the way and let the pros do their job. I can;t wait. I was 100% brought to this planet for what is about to go down. I've been waiting 54 years bro. Game on for me. Listen to what I have to say, it's an amazing story of survival and has 100% divine intervention. I'm special and wonderfully made and protected I might add, at least so far. I have so many threats and PMs by the same assholes. You can judge them by their actions!!!

 

[crush]

There are little to any risks to adults teaching kids.

Go look at the data.

The overwhelming number of deaths occur to people OVER retirement age.

Those that are under retirement age that have died due to covid are overwhelmingly people with serious health issues.

So if you have serious health issues, you shouldn't be going out too much etc and that is true for any profession.

Outside of that, the math/data clearly shows there is really no risks.

About 10-11% off all deaths are from those 54 and younger. So that basically is the majority of our workforce/population. Of those deaths under 54, these are not healthy people dying. In almost all cases these are people with serious health issues. Can you tell me a story about a healthy person dying? Yep. But that is the EXCEPTION.

What does that mean? That means you and I and pretty much everyone can go to work and not WORRY about dying.

That is what the data shows.

You can pretend otherwise and be scared, but that means you have not paid attention to the data.

So no, I am not ignoring the adults as you say. I am paying attention to the data and realize these people are not at risk.

hound, yesterday broke my heart. I saw k-6th graders getting on a bus and all these kids had freaking mask on. It was so sad. 12 months of lies and fear based propaganda is horrible on the kids. No kid like the kids I saw have any worry of dying.

 

[Grace T.]

Oh, Dora is good, but you have WordGirl's nonchalant humor and I could never imagine you saying, "Swiper, no swiping."

@dad4 completely misses the point of these Nicknames. They need to be derogatory, which is why my son suggested Dora: "Swiper, no masking". She winds up pretty horribly too when she's an adult. But @dad4 of course picks out an obscure reference he likes that's kinda cool. No. For example, if we were looking to give a derogatory nickname to Husker, Caillou comes screaming to mind. For @dad4 we would need to find someone who on the surface is absolutely brilliant, but twists the data to come to his own priors. The closest I can come is "Morty", but that's not really derogatory.

 

[watfly]

Sacrifices?

COVID killed my biz big guy. Totally killed my biz. So don't talk to me about sacrifices when I go from making money one day to having zero customers the next.

You sit there and tell people like me that we shouldn't be able to make a living while you sit at home and make your salary.

You have no idea about sacrifices. Try losing your income and still making payments for schooling, housing, cars, etc.

And that is your problem.

You can do a math problem, but you cannot interpret data when looking at the real world. You have no concept of cost/benefit. It is likely why you are not working in the private sector...you cannot apply what you know and adjust based on the actual data. You keep running around WISHING the world would confirm to want it to do.

So when you lose your biz and go from making good money to none, then you can talk about sacrifice. You advocate the closure of biz like mine and others while comfortably having a paycheck week to week. You have no concept of the fact that people need to work, to go out and do things to survive. We cannot just arbitrarily close this or that because some idiot like you deem that certain business and/or that families needs are NON ESSENTIAL.

We cannot sit here will idiots like you say kids shouldn't be in school. That somehow teachers can't go to work despite the data showing otherwise. Every other profession is putting on the shoes and going to work.

Sacrifice. You have no idea.

Do you mind if I summarize this for you? I'm pretty sure it called the inability to "walk in another persons shoes". Its the ultimate in selfish mentality.

I'm surprised your as calm and composed as you are. I'd be ripping heads off, or at least ripping out what's left of my hair. I'm thankful for our employees who despite being exposed to the public on a daily basis have come to work with absolutely zero complaints and little hesitation. With some basic common sense guidelines they've been able to do so safely.

My sincere condolences for what you're going through. Tragic and never needed to happen, at least for this length of time. Unfortunately, its what happens when we allow our politicians pick winners and losers.

 

[Grace T.]

I would have thought that your libertarian beliefs would have you advocating most vociferously against the fact that "we are forcing" various people to go to work (which "we" are not). Maybe if they all had unions, they wouldn't be. I'm pretty sure that in many or even most of those cases masks are mandatory, social distancing is mandated, capacity is reduced, temperatures are taken of each customer (my dentist certainly does) etc and so on to mitigate risk. Many or most of these are not possible with schools, but you know that.

I do. While I've always been supportive of unions, my thinking on public employee unions has changed. I think the government is too captured by them to make an arms length transaction and are generally a bad idea. I think the schools issue has shown that. But FYI, all those things you list are mandated in LA County in the schools, and they are planning hybrid only for next year because of the distancing requirements.

 

[Desert Hound]

While I've always been supportive of unions, my thinking on public employee unions has changed.

Public unions simply lead to corruption.

It is a system where the union(s) and the politicians negotiate and the people that pay are the taxpayers. Taxpayers have little to no voice in the matter. Politicians know where their money comes from and come up with "deals" with the unions that are not sound.

Private sector unions.

When unions and management negotiate, they all have a stake so to speak. If they do it wrong the biz is hurt and that affects both sides financial interests. In other words they have to be careful and prudent when they negotiate. They have a vested interest in having the biz thrive.

On the public side...both sides are negotiating with someone else's money.

 

[kickingandscreaming]

@dad4 completely misses the point of these Nicknames. They need to be derogatory, which is why my son suggested Dora: "Swiper, no masking". She winds up pretty horribly too when she's an adult. But @dad4 of course picks out an obscure reference he likes that's kinda cool. No. For example, if we were looking to give a derogatory nickname to Husker, Caillou comes screaming to mind. For @dad4 we would need to find someone who on the surface is absolutely brilliant, but twists the data to come to his own priors. The closest I can come is "Morty", but that's not really derogatory.

Caillou - Nothing lower than that.

 

[watfly]

You know its interesting this whole "we're all in this together" (or "we're seeking bipartisan support") is a complete load of BS. Its actually "we're all in this together" as long as you believe what I believe. Both sides of the ledger are guilty of this. The best deals for everyone as a whole are those where both sides don't feel like they got everything they wanted. This mentality that there has to be "winners or losers" is a "scorched earth policy" that only results in bad blood and retribution when the other side is now calling the shots.

 

[watfly]

On the public side...both sides are negotiating with someone else's money.

Best observation of the year so far. I'm going to use that if you don't mind.

 

[dad4]

@dad4 completely misses the point of these Nicknames. They need to be derogatory, which is why my son suggested Dora: "Swiper, no masking". She winds up pretty horribly too when she's an adult. But @dad4 of course picks out an obscure reference he likes that's kinda cool. No. For example, if we were looking to give a derogatory nickname to Husker, Caillou comes screaming to mind. For @dad4 we would need to find someone who on the surface is absolutely brilliant, but twists the data to come to his own priors. The closest I can come is "Morty", but that's not really derogatory.

I don't like insults, and think cartoon names would be fun.

I would have thought that was clear.

-Usagi

 

[dad4]

See here is the problem.

You want to impose your views on people and as such make certain segments of our society sacrifice their biz/savings/etc. In other words what you have been advocating has nothing to do with free will.

And unfortunately there are other idiots who have the political power to enforce what you like.

There is nothing willingly accepted there.

Further as data comes in over the past year, we see these gov policies are not effective.

95% of kids in CA have not been in class this year. The opposite is true in places like FL and TX. And guess what? They have not have the massive problems you and others predicted would happen.

In just 3-4 more weeks we will also likely see that TX who has lifted restrictions will not have a reversal of fortune. You where/are aghast at what they did...and what other states are now doing.

And, when people like you decide to hold indoor gatherings that increase community spread and raise the risk for other people, do you ask their permission before increasing their risk?

Do they have free will in this, or just you?

-Usagi

 

[watfly]

And, when people like you decide to hold indoor gatherings that increase community spread and raise the risk for other people, do you ask their permission before increasing their risk?

Do they have free will in this, or just you?

-Usagi

You assume risk that you can't control every time you leave your house, Covid or otherwise. That's how real life works. Plus since masking and social distancing is so effective according to you, you can still eliminate that risk in public. Problem solved.

 

[Desert Hound]

Do they have free will in this, or just you?

They do have free will.

People like you prefer to hide at home and not go out.

Others who understand there is little to no risk do go out.

See how that works?

 

[Grace T.]

I don't like insults, and think cartoon names would be fun.

I would have thought that was clear.

-Usagi

The best insults are the ones coated in a truth because they hurt. If I were to call you a dumb dumb with no sense and no basis in reality it wouldn't hurt because it's easy to shrug off because it has no basis in reality.

 

[dad4]

They do have free will.

People like you prefer to hide at home and not go out.

Others who understand there is little to no risk do go out.

See how that works?

Not what I asked. I wasn’t asking whether people had the right to lock themselves in a room. We agree that they do.

Since you dodged the question, we can assume your answer is no. Underdog gets free will to open his restaurant and spread disease. Other people do not get free will to live in a community with less disease. Free will is only for underdog.

I knew you’d toss in a bogus zero claim somehow. Let’s talk about “little risk”.

US deaths in the last 12 months are about 636,000 above normal. So, for over half a million people, the risk was not “little”. Around 19,500 of those excess deaths were in Arizona. That’s a little more than one excess death per 400 residents.

Cost/benefit? There is your cost.

 

[dad4]

The best insults are the ones coated in a truth because they hurt. If I were to call you a dumb dumb with no sense and no basis in reality it wouldn't hurt because it's easy to shrug off because it has no basis in reality.

The world has more than enough hurt in it right now. We have that base covered.

There is no real need for the insults. It might make me feel clever to say them, and I make that mistake, but it is a mistake.

-Usagi