Bad News Thread

Another mask study....long and short is N95s good, surgical good, cloth masks somewhere in between depending on material, bandanas bad and gaiters counterproductive. I note re surgicals this one is pretty good because it included speech, but it didn't look at the long term use and when the mask gets wet or repeatedly infected with a cough (which I've suspected is also a vulnerability in surgical-cloth).

 
Grace T. said:
Another mask study....long and short is N95s good, surgical good, cloth masks somewhere in between depending on material, bandanas bad and gaiters counterproductive. I note re surgicals this one is pretty good because it included speech, but it didn't look at the long term use and when the mask gets wet or repeatedly infected with a cough (which I've suspected is also a vulnerability in surgical-cloth).

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I've misplaced my gaiter which was the most comfortable for me to wear without fogging up my glasses. I've been wearing surgical or cloth lately, sounds like I need to stick with those.
 
watfly said:
I've misplaced my gaiter which was the most comfortable for me to wear without fogging up my glasses. I've been wearing surgical or cloth lately, sounds like I need to stick with those.
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I still suspect one of the reasons "masks aren't working" is because people are reusing surgical-cloth or wearing them for too long a period of time (on top of people not wearing them in social situations, impractical to use 24/7 in the home, improper usage, and/or cheating on them because humans have this weird evolutionary thing where we don't like our breathing passages blocked by anything).
 
Grace T. said:
Another mask study....long and short is N95s good, surgical good, cloth masks somewhere in between depending on material, bandanas bad and gaiters counterproductive. I note re surgicals this one is pretty good because it included speech, but it didn't look at the long term use and when the mask gets wet or repeatedly infected with a cough (which I've suspected is also a vulnerability in surgical-cloth).

Click to expand...
Image from Grace’s study. Clearly, don’t bother with bandanas or gaiters.

1607714961778.jpeg
 
Grace T. said:
I still suspect one of the reasons "masks aren't working" is because people are reusing surgical-cloth or wearing them for too long a period of time (on top of people not wearing them in social situations, impractical to use 24/7 in the home, improper usage, and/or cheating on them because humans have this weird evolutionary thing where we don't like our breathing passages blocked by anything).
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It’s also just easier to do a lab experiment than one in the field.

How would you even design an experiment to test whether masks reduce outbound covid transmission in the real world? Pick 20 isolated cities and flood 10 of them with boxes of surgical masks? Very expensive, and it still only gets you n=10.

That’s a lot of time and money to get a weak correlation and an unpublishable non statistically significant result.
 
Grace T. said:
Another mask study....long and short is N95s good, surgical good, cloth masks somewhere in between depending on material, bandanas bad and gaiters counterproductive. I note re surgicals this one is pretty good because it included speech, but it didn't look at the long term use and when the mask gets wet or repeatedly infected with a cough (which I've suspected is also a vulnerability in surgical-cloth).

Click to expand...

That's from September and has been discussed here before.
 
dad4 said:
It’s also just easier to do a lab experiment than one in the field.

How would you even design an experiment to test whether masks reduce outbound covid transmission in the real world? Pick 20 isolated cities and flood 10 of them with boxes of surgical masks? Very expensive, and it still only gets you n=10.

That’s a lot of time and money to get a weak correlation and an unpublishable non statistically significant result.
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The physical performance of the masks themselves can be measured. What is less certain is the social performance - will people use them appropriately and correctly?
 
dad4 said:
It’s also just easier to do a lab experiment than one in the field.

How would you even design an experiment to test whether masks reduce outbound covid transmission in the real world? Pick 20 isolated cities and flood 10 of them with boxes of surgical masks? Very expensive, and it still only gets you n=10.

That’s a lot of time and money to get a weak correlation and an unpublishable non statistically significant result.
Click to expand...

Agree, which despite being labelled anti-mask, is the reason I think we should still wear them....because it's impossible to tell right now. But I do think it's possible (as this study shows) to test my hypothesis (actually, the hypothesis of that PPE engineer I cited a while back) that one of the reasons masks aren't working is because they are getting wet, washed or not replaced often enough. The design of this experiment was pretty good (from what I've been told by peeps in the know) and took into account for the first time human speech as well (should also take into account sneezes and coughs). I'd bet money the results show that we should be doing single (or perhaps double/triple) use...if so a targeted mask approach might be more effective instead of having people wear (and use them out) outside (or worse while driving alone in their cars because they are scared to touch it on and off).
 
espola said:
That's from September and has been discussed here before.
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I don't have a recollection of this one being discussed....we did discuss another one very similar though I could be wrong....my memory isn't as perfect as when I was younger...the difference with this one though was speech.
 
Grace T. said:
I don't have a recollection of this one being discussed....we did discuss another one very similar though I could be wrong....my memory isn't as perfect as when I was younger...the difference with this one though was speech.
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I recognized the graphs right away.
 
I'm all for wearing masks when appropriate, just don't assume they're a panacea, because clearly they're not. Social distancing is probably way more effective.

I question the relevance of both actions though when people make stupid decisions after they know they've been exposed, or have mild symptoms they ignore. Please stay home if you have anything remotely resembling a Covid symptom regardless of severity, or if you been exposed or potentially exposed. Stay home (other than to get a test) until you can confirm you don't have the virus. Don't go out because you think a mask may protect others. IMO opinion its the people that ignore this advice that are the primary drivers of the spread of the virus. Can't prove it, but based upon some of the stories I'm hearing that's what my gut tells me.
 
watfly said:
Stay home (other than to get a test) until you can confirm you don't have the virus. Don't go out because you think a mask may protect others. IMO opinion its the people that ignore this advice that are the primary drivers of the spread of the virus. Can't prove it, but based upon some of the stories I'm hearing that's what my gut tells me.
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Plenty of $$$ being made from CV19 testing. Average cost of a nasal swab test in AZ is $141, in CA $143. In NJ it cost $319. I know more people are getting the free test than not, but many people are paying.

Many people will pay (to include yours truly) in order to avoid quarantine and immediately rule out Covid. I don't necessarily think testing has turned into a side hustle but it is lucrative. That doesn't include other tests that you can get at various clinics in your community that cost $$

A lot of sniffles this time of the year.
 
Grace T. said:
Agree, which despite being labelled anti-mask, is the reason I think we should still wear them....because it's impossible to tell right now. But I do think it's possible (as this study shows) to test my hypothesis (actually, the hypothesis of that PPE engineer I cited a while back) that one of the reasons masks aren't working is because they are getting wet, washed or not replaced often enough. The design of this experiment was pretty good (from what I've been told by peeps in the know) and took into account for the first time human speech as well (should also take into account sneezes and coughs). I'd bet money the results show that we should be doing single (or perhaps double/triple) use...if so a targeted mask approach might be more effective instead of having people wear (and use them out) outside (or worse while driving alone in their cars because they are scared to touch it on and off).
Click to expand...
You know of any studies of wet /misted masks? Seems easy enough to design and do.
 
happy9 said:
Plenty of $$$ being made from CV19 testing. Average cost of a nasal swab test in AZ is $141, in CA $143. In NJ it cost $319. I know more people are getting the free test than not, but many people are paying.

Many people will pay (to include yours truly) in order to avoid quarantine and immediately rule out Covid. I don't necessarily think testing has turned into a side hustle but it is lucrative. That doesn't include other tests that you can get at various clinics in your community that cost $$

A lot of sniffles this time of the year.
Click to expand...
Yep, much easier to get a test now, fortunately. Frustrating though a few months ago in SD when you could only get one if you showed very specific symptoms and just being exposed was not enough to get your healthcare provider to approve the test. Made it difficult for work place decisions when you can't get a test for your non-symptom, but exposed employee. We figured it out, but it wasn't easy. Our company's healthcare provider does provide free testing, which is nice.
 
watfly said:
I'm all for wearing masks when appropriate, just don't assume they're a panacea, because clearly they're not. Social distancing is probably way more effective.

I question the relevance of both actions though when people make stupid decisions after they know they've been exposed, or have mild symptoms they ignore. Please stay home if you have anything remotely resembling a Covid symptom regardless of severity, or if you been exposed or potentially exposed. Stay home (other than to get a test) until you can confirm you don't have the virus. Don't go out because you think a mask may protect others. IMO opinion its the people that ignore this advice that are the primary drivers of the spread of the virus. Can't prove it, but based upon some of the stories I'm hearing that's what my gut tells me.
Click to expand...

A plumber friend of my father's went out to the market (got to eat) and tried to go into work (his employer sent him home) after testing asymptomatic positive. His rationale was "I'm wearing a mask".
 
dad4 said:
You know of any studies of wet /misted masks? Seems easy enough to design and do.
Click to expand...

some of the flu studies mention them as a problem with the advice to replace often. Nothing on COVID, but I suspect they aren't running them for fear of what they might find.
 
happy9 said:
Plenty of $$$ being made from CV19 testing. Average cost of a nasal swab test in AZ is $141, in CA $143. In NJ it cost $319. I know more people are getting the free test than not, but many people are paying.

Many people will pay (to include yours truly) in order to avoid quarantine and immediately rule out Covid. I don't necessarily think testing has turned into a side hustle but it is lucrative. That doesn't include other tests that you can get at various clinics in your community that cost $$

A lot of sniffles this time of the year.
Click to expand...


Get the point but a test, technically, is not really enough "to avoid quarantine". You could become positive after the test (exhibit A: Trump and the debates). The only way to be sure is to test after (I can't remember the exact recommended time...heard different things when a pod of my son's had to quarantine after exposure) 7-10 days.
 
watfly said:
Yep, much easier to get a test now, fortunately. Frustrating though a few months ago in SD when you could only get one if you showed very specific symptoms and just being exposed was not enough to get your healthcare provider to approve the test. Made it difficult for work place decisions when you can't get a test for your non-symptom, but exposed employee. We figured it out, but it wasn't easy. Our company's healthcare provider does provide free testing, which is nice.
Click to expand...
Lack of testing early (for good reasons) certainly frustrated efforts to keep workplace momentum going. Much easier now, basically on demand.
 
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