Bad News Thread

Desert Hound said:
So this what you get when you have guys like @dad4 running the show. In this case the mayor of LA.

At some point enough is enough.

Takeout should be good enough right @dad4?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1335019055053475843
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Not sure where you get the idea that I have any power in this.

I would have closed restaurants/bars/casinos/etc. in March and kept them shut. Schools, especially elementary, ought to be open.

Instead, casinos are open and schools are shut. It's the exact opposite of what people like me wanted.

Now we are to the point of a stricter lockdown. It would be nice if it were science based and narrowly tailored, but we no longer have time to think things through. We used up that time keeping restaurants open and fighting over masks.

Which leaves us where we are, closing things at random and praying for the best.
 
dad4 said:
Not sure where you get the idea that I have any power in this.

I would have closed restaurants/bars/casinos/etc. in March and kept them shut. Schools, especially elementary, ought to be open.

Instead, casinos are open and schools are shut. It's the exact opposite of what people like me wanted.

Now we are to the point of a stricter lockdown. It would be nice if it were science based and narrowly tailored, but we no longer have time to think things through. We used up that time keeping restaurants open and fighting over masks.

Which leaves us where we are, closing things at random and praying for the best.
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Restaurants were never open in LA County or in the City of LA...so please explain your restaurant and bar theory and how it applies to LA County. The only people I see in groups without masks are the homeless.
 
Grace T. said:
Mask mandates everywhere, the world burning around you and you have the tenacity to say that. :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p

The blue pill is powerful stuff.
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Mask mandates vs what people actually do are two different things. But, yeah it would support the notion that mask mandates don't work, but also support the notion that leadership, at all levels, that have downplayed mask efficacy are probably more to blame.
 
Grace T. said:
More evidence that masks can't stop outbreaks. In Golden Gate Fields (isn't dad around there?), 200 racetrack workers fell ill (most asymptomatic) despite rigorous sanitation, mask, temp checks and testing. Yes, there were some residents there, but the protocols didn't protect the non-residents either. It's of course possible the masks reduced viral loads or stopped another portion of the workers from getting ill. But either the horses are transmitting it, or the masks didn't help stop it in this circumstance.

www.berkeleyside.com

How did 200 racetrack workers at Golden Gate Fields get COVID-19?

One week after a COVID-19 outbreak involving hundreds of Golden Gate Fields workers became public, many who tested positive are back to work.
www.berkeleyside.com www.berkeleyside.com
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Or it could be evidence that people are not adhering to the rules and recommendations. No facility is going to come out and say "Oh, we've been really against covid protections".
 
Kicker4Life said:
Restaurants were never open in LA County or in the City of LA...so please explain your restaurant and bar theory and how it applies to LA County. The only people I see in groups without masks are the homeless.
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Restaurant and bar theory comes from CDC, not me.

www.cdc.gov

Community and Close Contact Exposures Associated with COVID-19 ...

Community and close contact exposures continue to drive the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic. CDC and other public health authorities recommend community mitigation strategies ...
www.cdc.gov www.cdc.gov

Opening restaurants and bars is not the only thing you can do wrong. It‘s a big one, but there are others. Maybe you guys closed all your restaurants but held lots of dinner parties. Maybe half the population has a mask but wears it just below the nose. I can’t tell for sure what LA is doing wrong.
 
dad4 said:
Restaurant and bar theory comes from CDC, not me.

www.cdc.gov

Community and Close Contact Exposures Associated with COVID-19 ...

Community and close contact exposures continue to drive the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic. CDC and other public health authorities recommend community mitigation strategies ...
www.cdc.gov www.cdc.gov

Opening restaurants and bars is not the only thing you can do wrong. It‘s a big one, but there are others. Maybe you guys closed all your restaurants but held lots of dinner parties. Maybe half the population has a mask but wears it just below the nose. I can’t tell for sure what LA is doing wrong.
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Right, so you’re constantly arguing that bars and restaurants are driving this new wave of cases except for were bars and restaurants haven’t been open, that’s all from house parties and improper mask wearing, “maybe”.
 
dad4 said:
Restaurant and bar theory comes from CDC, not me.

www.cdc.gov

Community and Close Contact Exposures Associated with COVID-19 ...

Community and close contact exposures continue to drive the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic. CDC and other public health authorities recommend community mitigation strategies ...
www.cdc.gov www.cdc.gov

Opening restaurants and bars is not the only thing you can do wrong. It‘s a big one, but there are others. Maybe you guys closed all your restaurants but held lots of dinner parties. Maybe half the population has a mask but wears it just below the nose. I can’t tell for sure what LA is doing wrong.
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Actually they are not really sure about their info. Read the limitations. For bars they don't know about being in the bar or getting delivery. For restaurants they don't know about indoor vs outdoor. And the limitations go on and on.

Further as was posted here a few weeks ago, health ministries from around the world were on record stating that they cannot reliably determine in the vast majority of cases where an infection happened.

So the fact is states are closing stuff without hard data. Remember bars and restaurants in many places have been open for months on end. The recent spikes happened long after. I know you will say well it is colder now people are inside. AZ as just one example has always been inside during those months without a rise. Too damn hot to eat or drink on the patio up until mid to late Sept.
 
dad4 said:
Not sure where you get the idea that I have any power in this.
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You are full of bad idea like our "leaders".

Cancel tournaments. Never mind my kid wants to go.

Hey lets test teams every day before games. Not at risk and rather expensive

Hey lets cut down class sizes and do cohorts of some ridiculously small number. School are dangerous. They aren't

Hey lets put 10s of millions of people out of work on a theory never tried before.

Hey the first lockdowns didn't work but lets do it again.

Masks work. Why is the world spiking again? Probably restaurants and bars. Had they shut those down.

And it goes on and on.

You ever circle around to take note of the fact that pretty much every one of your ideas hasn't worked or was completely wrong?
 
Kicker4Life said:
Right, so you’re constantly arguing that bars and restaurants are driving this new wave of cases except for were bars and restaurants haven’t been open, that’s all from house parties and improper mask wearing, “maybe”.
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A noticeable fraction of the country is outside LA. Maybe I was talking about one if those obscure places.
 
NorCalDad said:
Or it could be evidence that people are not adhering to the rules and recommendations. No facility is going to come out and say "Oh, we've been really against covid protections".
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Isn't getting "buy-in" also part of leadership? Leadership isn't "do what I say" and then blame people for not doing it if it doesn't work out. That's also Leadership 101. If politicians are that out of touch with the people they represent, they'll never be good leaders.
 
Desert Hound said:
You are full of bad idea like our "leaders".

Cancel tournaments. Never mind my kid wants to go.

Hey lets test teams every day before games. Not at risk and rather expensive

Hey lets cut down class sizes and do cohorts of some ridiculously small number. School are dangerous. They aren't

Hey lets put 10s of millions of people out of work on a theory never tried before.

Hey the first lockdowns didn't work but lets do it again.

Masks work. Why is the world spiking again? Probably restaurants and bars. Had they shut those down.

And it goes on and on.

You ever circle around to take note of the fact that pretty much every one of your ideas hasn't worked or was completely wrong?
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When did YOU ever actually lock down?

You've been talking about bars and restaurants and minimal mask usage ever since May. You haven't been even minimally cautious for the last six months
 
dad4 said:
Restaurant and bar theory comes from CDC, not me.

www.cdc.gov

Community and Close Contact Exposures Associated with COVID-19 ...

Community and close contact exposures continue to drive the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) pandemic. CDC and other public health authorities recommend community mitigation strategies ...
www.cdc.gov www.cdc.gov

Opening restaurants and bars is not the only thing you can do wrong. It‘s a big one, but there are others. Maybe you guys closed all your restaurants but held lots of dinner parties. Maybe half the population has a mask but wears it just below the nose. I can’t tell for sure what LA is doing wrong.
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Maybe the virus is seasonal and what you could get away with in August you can't in November. I love your effort to put it under our control, though. It is really - just don't be in the same building or come near anyone and wait for the vaccine, that's all.
 
kickingandscreaming said:
Isn't getting "buy-in" also part of leadership? Leadership isn't "do what I say" and then blame people for not doing it if it doesn't work out. That's also Leadership 101. If politicians are that out of touch with the people they represent, they'll never be good leaders.
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For sure, the syllabus for Leadership 101 has many bullet points. The challenge here is you have leadership all over the place on this.

I mean the sad thing about all of this is if a foreign entity really wanted to take the US down, just give us a virus. All these "anti-maskers", "you're taking away our freedoms", and "covid is a hoax" people would be the death of us.
 
NorCalDad said:
For sure, the syllabus for Leadership 101 has many bullet points. The challenge here is you have leadership all over the place on this.

I mean the sad thing about all of this is if a foreign entity really wanted to take the US down, just give us a virus. All these "anti-maskers", "you're taking away our freedoms", and "covid is a hoax" people would be the death of us.
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The problem is that there is little real leadership, and there is an overabundance of partisanship.

I'd also note that there is a lot of "distance" between "covid is a hoax" and "you are taking away our freedoms". Just because covid is not a hoax doesn't justify the arbitrary suppression of freedoms.
 
kickingandscreaming said:
The problem is that there is little real leadership, and there is an overabundance of partisanship
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Now this is just a comment in general. Not contradicting anything you have said.

So masks.

Many here and other places blame the rise in cases based on leadership. Does that also mean every other country in the N Hemisphere also failed in leadership as it relates to masks? Or is it that masks only slightly help at most?

And that then goes on to the overall policies.

I ask that because despite different leaders, different policies, we are all experiencing the same thing over the past month or 2 in the N Hemisphere
 
kickingandscreaming said:
The problem is that there is little real leadership, and there is an overabundance of partisanship.

I'd also note that there is a lot of "distance" between "covid is a hoax" and "you are taking away our freedoms". Just because covid is not a hoax doesn't justify the arbitrary suppression of freedoms.
Click to expand...

the particular problem here is that it is 2x-6x deadlier than a bad flu and highly highly contagious but at .1-.4% ifr no where near a catastrophe on the levels of the polio epidemics post wwi, the Spanish flu, the wwii measles epidemics, the 19th century cholera and scarlet fever epidemics, small pox, Ebola, sars 1 or the plague. Add to that the complication it’s not deadly at all for those under 30 but much more deadly for those over 65. Add to that the complication that we have traditionally sacrificed the old to save the young...the future (“women and children first”). Add to that the easiest measures we have (whether or not they actually help) restrict children who can’t vote (schools sports playgrounds) as opposed to businesses which generate tax (ski resorts restaurants movie studios). Add to that these measure directly hurt the working poor and small business but enrich the wealthy (who have ample room during lockdowns and are working from home) and large corporations (amazon). Add to that an election year, and blm protests which broke the “we are all in this together” consensus and it’s a recipe for a s show before we even get to bad leadership of health experts, trump, or the hypocritical leftist lockdowners.
 
Just 3-4 weeks ago Europe was "way behind the US".

Italy, Germany, Spain, France, UK, Netherlands and Belgium (about the same population as the US) in specific had about 50k or more less deaths vs the US.

They must be working out or something. Now they are about 20k behind. I guess Europe didn't nail it.

Deaths in those counties: 267,540
US 287,807

I keep wondering which of their policies should we have followed?

We were told for months the US screwed the pooch, but Europe got it right.

Bueller?
 
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