Time to Play

EOTL said:
Lovely. You accuse people of being gleeful that people are dying and then pretend you’re on the high road when others use your name calling tactic against you. Even better that you claim those who actually come to to the debate with facts and science are the ones without them, when you still haven’t provided a single fact or number. This is the “I’m just asking questions” ploy intended to hurt the credibility of the person who actually has the answers. You’re trying to paint them (me in this case) as being a big meany, in the hope that maybe people will forget that this particular debate started with you accusing people of being gleeful about people dying. You are correct that I am a big meany, but incorrect that it’s a legitimate reason to ignore facts.

Also, there is no “middle ground” or “compromise” as to facts and science (aka the truth) on one side, and nonsense on the other. This particular debate is commonly known as bothsides-ism. It is the argument that white supremacists make to justify and garner support for at least some of their racism. It is the argument religious folk make to support the notion that “faith” constitutes a legitimate reason to deny fact. The point is to at least keep the door open to a ridiculously stupid point of view. Like the “I’m just asking questions” ploy, the point of it is to try to paint the person armed with actual facts and science - like the fact that more than 120,000 people are dead and that number is tracking to be over 200,000 before the end of the year - as being unreasonable simply because they aren’t willing to compromise to a stupid unsupportable position on the other side. Well, the problem with this is that facts are facts. The world is not flat. Vaccines do not cause autism. You cannot be a tiki torch wielding white supremacist and still be a good person. And most important for our purposes, masks significantly limit Covid exposure, as does staying at home whenever possible, and both of those saves lives. Whether you think reopening the economy now is worth the significant number of people who will die because of it does not change the science that a lot of people will die.

For those of you who are in favor of just moving forward and opening up, just admit “yes, I’m ok with a lot more people dying.” I’d actually have some respect for that. But all this nonsense about how maybe sheltering in place actually kills more than it saves, or wearing masks is a greater health risk than not wearing them and/or doesn’t work, is just self-denial that what you want to happen will kill a lot of people.
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I bet it were only white police dying it would be ok with you.
Are you ok with the rioters not wearing masks?
 
Copa9 said:
It seems the people who are "dying" to get out can't handle a little discomfort and have very little patience, the typical "me" generation. They want it all "now". They can't handle physical distancing and face masks. I just laugh at some of the idiots who post on here. The typical weak American. I worry more about the lack of fortitude, discipline and resilience of a lot of adults in this country than I do about covid. Some of the best minds in the world are working on a vaccine and good therapeutics. Sanofi and GSK, and Sanofi and a smaller biotech firm have two really good vaccines going to trial in Sept. J & J also have a good vaccine in trials in Aug./Sept. It will happen. But hey, do what you want, as I am sure you are the type that usually does.
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Can we still live in Cali and move around without the vaccine? Very important question for my wifey. Thanks Dr Copa
 
dad4 said:
olders are still higher risk than youngers. If I we a cluster caused by an outdoor game, I’ll be back to advocating under 10 only.

Kids only, either way. No need for a cluster of 45 year olds on the sideline talking to each other. That’s riskier than the game.
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It's really about the adults who miss the socializing.
 
Copa9 said:
It's really about the adults who miss the socializing.
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Oh ya, I'm so addicted to the kool aid soccer socializing packets that I want more and more of it. Watching my dd try hard at something and try and win a team sport with her teammates is a small small % of my addiction. Social is way more addicting. I like to sit there and socialize......lol! That's why I'm still here.......I have nothing else to do. Copa, I spent thousands upon thousands of dollars for the holy grail and I'm not quitting until I taste from it. I love soccer and it;s more powerful than politics or religion put together.

1593118269874.png
 
Copa9 said:
It's really about the adults who miss the socializing.
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and they are the ones who spread. going on out of state vacations and weekend trips to vegas justifying it by the deals they get.......Unfortunately we're not going back anytime soon to play games. 12,000 new cases in 2 days in California. Its the beginning to the end.
 
EOTL said:
Lovely. You accuse people of being gleeful that people are dying and then pretend you’re on the high road when others use your name calling tactic against you. Even better that you claim those who actually come to to the debate with facts and science are the ones without them, when you still haven’t provided a single fact or number. This is the “I’m just asking questions” ploy intended to hurt the credibility of the person who actually has the answers. You’re trying to paint them (me in this case) as being a big meany, in the hope that maybe people will forget that this particular debate started with you accusing people of being gleeful about people dying. You are correct that I am a big meany, but incorrect that it’s a legitimate reason to ignore facts.

Also, there is no “middle ground” or “compromise” as to facts and science (aka the truth) on one side, and nonsense on the other. This particular debate is commonly known as bothsides-ism. It is the argument that white supremacists make to justify and garner support for at least some of their racism. It is the argument religious folk make to support the notion that “faith” constitutes a legitimate reason to deny fact. The point is to at least keep the door open to a ridiculously stupid point of view. Like the “I’m just asking questions” ploy, the point of it is to try to paint the person armed with actual facts and science - like the fact that more than 120,000 people are dead and that number is tracking to be over 200,000 before the end of the year - as being unreasonable simply because they aren’t willing to compromise to a stupid unsupportable position on the other side. Well, the problem with this is that facts are facts. The world is not flat. Vaccines do not cause autism. You cannot be a tiki torch wielding white supremacist and still be a good person. And most important for our purposes, masks significantly limit Covid exposure, as does staying at home whenever possible, and both of those saves lives. Whether you think reopening the economy now is worth the significant number of people who will die because of it does not change the science that a lot of people will die.

For those of you who are in favor of just moving forward and opening up, just admit “yes, I’m ok with a lot more people dying.” I’d actually have some respect for that. But all this nonsense about how maybe sheltering in place actually kills more than it saves, or wearing masks is a greater health risk than not wearing them and/or doesn’t work, is just self-denial that what you want to happen will kill a lot of people.
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Be sure to include protesters when you are talking about breaking quarantine.

Any mass gathering helps spread disease. It doesn't matter if the flag says "BLM", "save our economy", or "Go Juventus." Its all the same to the virus.
 
EOTL said:
So here is @watfly using the same rhetorical device again. When you don’t have facts, or science, or anything on your side, just characterize the person telling you what you don’t want to hear as “gleeful” when people die or “tunnel visioned”. In other words, just attack the person stating the science-backed position because that’s all you have. Me, on the other hand, I’ve got science on my side AND I’m perfectly happy to make personal attacks right back at those who think that’s a useful debate tactic. Super fun.

If anyone is tunnel-visioned, it’s the person who doesn’t wear a mask when they go out and won’t stay home unless they need to go out. It’s the people who look at 120,000 dead, know that number may be 200,000 by November, and label people who understand that those are really big and unnecessary numbers as “hysterical”. But the only people who are hysterical are the whackos going ballistic when Costco or the grocery store won’t let them in unless they put on a mask and storming state capitols with their AR-15s because they think they’ve been denied a 1st amendment right to get a haircut at Sport Clips for a couple months.
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I wonder if people are really understanding what a "120,000 deaths" looks like. Imagine a plane carrying 300 passengers crashes over one of our states today, so devastating to the families of those on board. Scary for us if we have a trip planned to fly somewhere, but we take the risk anyway, it's only one plane. Now imagine a plane with 300 passengers crashing everyday for the previous "400" days! Or 800 a day since January 20. That is how many have died in our country alone in the last five months from covid! Would you hop on a plane for a trip or maybe wait until the airline industry figures out why all the planes are crashing? You can still take a trip, drive somewhere, just maybe postpone flying for a while unless it were a life and death situation and you had to fly.
 
Sheriff Joe said:
I bet it were only white police dying it would be ok with you.
Are you ok with the rioters not wearing masks?
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This is whatabout-ism. The point of this tactic is to try to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument. None of what this fella is saying has anything to do with the fact that not wearing masks will kill more people, as will ending shelter-in-place restrictions. It has nothing to do with the self-denial of those who want to fully open up that doing so will kill people, other than it is just more self-denial.

But since you really wanna talk about racist pigs, I’ll flatter you. They should also wear masks. Protesters should wear masks. Everyone should wear masks. Everyone should stay home when they can. I’m ok with the non-racist cops continuing to so their job as long as they wear masks and there are important reasons to be out and about.
 
dad4 said:
Be sure to include protesters when you are talking about breaking quarantine.

Any mass gathering helps spread disease. It doesn't matter if the flag says "BLM", "save our economy", or "Go Juventus." Its all the same to the virus.
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That is 100% true. I was at Pikes, CHOPs and Amazon Jan 22nd. Came home sick as a dog as did my plane. The virus is hear for the long haul. Mask, 6 feet and social distancing is a must. No if and or butts. Just do it!!! I'm doing it and I'm doing it with a smile. No harm no foul, just do it baby!!! I just ask if I do it and my family does it, you do it too? And that means you too and that is everyone goes down for two weeks and knock this sucker out before winter. Let winter come and go on lock down until next year. Let's do it!!!
 
EOTL said:
This is whatabout-ism. The point of this tactic is to try to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument. None of what this fella is saying has anything to do with the fact that not wearing masks will kill more people, as will ending shelter-in-place restrictions. It has nothing to do with the self-denial of those who want to fully open up that doing so will kill people, other than it is just more self-denial.

But since you really wanna talk about racist pigs, I’ll flatter you. They should also wear masks. Protesters should wear masks. Everyone should wear masks. Everyone should stay home when they can. I’m ok with the non-racist cops continuing to so their job as long as they wear masks and there are important reasons to be out and about.
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Are you ok with cancelling the protests to slow covid?

Or are you ok with covid spreading faster and killing more people?
 
EOTL said:
This is whatabout-ism. The point of this tactic is to try to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument. None of what this fella is saying has anything to do with the fact that not wearing masks will kill more people, as will ending shelter-in-place restrictions. It has nothing to do with the self-denial of those who want to fully open up that doing so will kill people, other than it is just more self-denial.

But since you really wanna talk about racist pigs, I’ll flatter you. They should also wear masks. Protesters should wear masks. Everyone should wear masks. Everyone should stay home when they can. I’m ok with the non-racist cops continuing to so their job as long as they wear masks and there are important reasons to be out and about.
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Which cops were racist?
 
dad4 said:
Be sure to include protesters when you are talking about breaking quarantine.

Any mass gathering helps spread disease. It doesn't matter if the flag says "BLM", "save our economy", or "Go Juventus." Its all the same to the virus.
Click to expand...

Here we have a legitimate debate issue, maybe. Specifically, where do you draw the line with respect to going out? I’m ok with going out to protest racial inequality and police abuse. I think that’s an important enough reason under the circumstances to justify the number of additional people who will probably die as a result, and probably not stoppable anyway. Going to Applebees for dinner, not so much. The president holding a rally in Tulsa to soothe his fragile ego, also no, that’s terrible leadership. It’s one thing to tolerate a mass gathering, but another for our leaders to cause it because they have low self-esteem.
 
EOTL said:
Here we have a legitimate debate issue, maybe. Specifically, where do you draw the line with respect to going out? I’m ok with going out to protest racial inequality and police abuse. I think that’s an important enough reason under the circumstances to justify the number of additional people who will probably die as a result, and probably not stoppable anyway. Going to Applebees for dinner, not so much. The president holding a rally in Tulsa to soothe his fragile ego, also no, that’s terrible leadership. It’s one thing to tolerate a mass gathering, but another for our leaders to cause it because they have low self-esteem.
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Too bad that's a made up concept. If you want to support black lives, stop being a pussy and acknowledge that blacks murder each other 7 times per day, every day of the year, and less than 10% of black lives lost were at the hands of a police officer.

Or you just going to keep being a lying pussy?
 
EOTL (and anyone else) I'll extend an olive branch even though I'm apparently a white supremacist because I use whatabout-ism. I know I said we can't find middle ground but maybe we can we agree to the following. Don't have to agree 100% but at least its primarily true in your mind and we don't have to agree on the extremes of the issue.

-We love to watch our kids play soccer
-The youth soccer landscape is not perfect and could be approved
-Our US soccer federation has made some missteps
-Masks should be worn in public when social distancing isn't possible
-Cancer treatments shouldn't be delayed because of Covid (not saying that it is or is not happening)
-There is a racial divide in this country that needs to be addressed
-It would be better if Trump stopped tweeting
 
watfly said:
EOTL (and anyone else) I'll extend an olive branch even though I'm apparently a white supremacist because I use whatabout-ism. I know I said we can't find middle ground but maybe we can we agree to the following. Don't have to agree 100% but at least its primarily true in your mind and we don't have to agree on the extremes of the issue.

-We love to watch our kids play soccer
-The youth soccer landscape is not perfect and could be approved
-Our US soccer federation has made some missteps
-Masks should be worn in public when social distancing isn't possible
-Cancer treatments shouldn't be delayed because of Covid (not saying that it is or is not happening)
-There is a racial divide in this country that needs to be addressed
-It would be better if Trump stopped tweeting
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All terrific points... but let's cut to the chase. The "racial divide" in this country won't ever end until black people accept some accountability and stop blaming everyone else for their issues.
 
The Outlaw said:
All terrific points... but let's cut to the chase. The "racial divide" in this country won't ever end until black people accept some accountability and stop blaming everyone else for their issues.
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That's not where I wanted this to go, but suit yourself.
 
watfly said:
That's not where I wanted this to go, but suit yourself.
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I get that... and I acknowledge and praised your post. I didn't want it to go there, either, but I'm tired of tap dancing around the truth and hearing the bullshit about bad white cops when every black man killed by them was a lifelong criminal, hood rat. If you make heroes out of hood rats, there's nowhere to go. I, unlike the perpetual victims, AM interested in saving black lives... not exploiting them.
 
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