Time to Play

[watfly]

I love how you and others are already preparing to be wrong. When more people die as a result of the abysmal way Covid is being handled in the US, the only thing you will be able to do to avoid confronting that you’re an idiot is to claim that everyone who was right is “gleeful” that more people are dying. But the truth is no one is gloating about it, and the only one who’s a POS is the person who mocks the very simple and obvious concept of wearing a face covering, lacks the discipline to avoid crowds whenever possible and is also too much of a p**y to accept responsibility for their role in advocating and supporting obviously stupid behavior that kills people.

And suggesting suicides are up because of the particular things the government is doing about Covid that you don’t like is just ludicrous. Using your own rhetorical device against you, it just shows how “gleeful” you are about people dying so you can rationalize why you want to go to the brewery and live vicariously through your child’s sports.

But if you want to speculate so badly why a few teens have committed suicide, I’m going to speculate that there are a lot of other more likely reasons than not being able to play team sports or going out to dinner for a couple months. I’m going to speculate that there’s an overall feeling among much of our youth that now is the worst time ever to be an American, and are embarrassed to even be one. They see the EU propose banning Americans due to our poor handling of Covid, which is a polite way of saying the EU plans to ban Americans because they’re undeniably stupid as a whole. They see their government ruling based on fear and fueled by hate of entire classes of people, to which many of them either belong or support. They’re seeing American Aryan Hitler Youth claiming - in church of all places - that Aunt Jemima symbolizes the American Dream. They see the irony and sadness in the fact that our privileged little dumb blonde is actually telling everyone, without realizing it, that the idea of the American Dream that their parents held onto so dearly is a farce. They see their own moronic parents claim that people out protesting are stupid, but then turn right around and use those stupid people as their excuse to go out themselves. They’re seeing idiots claim that wearing masks are killing people because air can’t get in and out, but also claiming that masks don’t work because, uh, the air that carries the virus does get in and out.

And there’s also no telling whether sitting at home is a bigger factor in depression than if there had been no sheltering and a lot more people, including friends and family members, had died instead. In short, speculating that shelter-in-place restrictions were a bad idea because maybe perhaps it contributed to a few suicides is just grasping at straws in a weak effort to rationalize why getting a beer at the brewery is more important to you than, well, people living.

I'll just post this again since you have Covid tunnel vision (and because you resort to name calling since the facts don't support your narrative). This is what medical professionals at the highest levels are predicting regarding non-covid impacts vs covid impacts to health. Clearly the non-covid impacts (due to the interruption of treatment and social isolation etc) are substantially greater than the direct covid impacts. Your claims regarding mental health issues are not supported by the concerns of actual medical professionals. Its not with glee that I point out the other negative impacts, I point it out to show we need to consider the bigger picture. I wish for all health impacts to be considered and for limiting those that are be afflicted with Covid, non-Covid and mental health issues. It's an incredibly difficult balancing act, but its impossible to balance if you don't even consider the other health issues. I believe the Covid blanket lockdown was originally done in good faith (despite my belief that a targeted approach would have been significantly more effective) but now its become entirely political and neither the left or Trump can claim innocence.

 

[dad4]

Just to clarify the "Covid Tunnel Vision" posters seem to be deathly afraid of the "Bigger Picture" posters not wearing masks. This is not about masks, none of the "Bigger Picture" posters have said they will not wear a mask if they can't social distance. The "Covid Tunnel Vision" posters just assume that since the "Bigger Picture" posters don't buy into the covid hysteria that they're not going to wear mask. Masks suck, but they may be effective to some degree. Again I wear a mask if I can't social distance out of respect for others. And again if you run across someone who isn't wearing a mask move 6 feet away. It's that simple. If your around people that are comfortable not wearing a mask, more power to you if you decide to not wear a mask, its called freedom of choice.

If your way worked, Arizona would be under control. They tried exactly what you propose, got a huge spike, and now have the governor asking everyone to ”Mask up, Arizona”. Same goes for Texas.

So, enjoy being a “Bigger Spreader” poster if you like, but understand it for what it is.

 

[EOTL]

Just to clarify the "Covid Tunnel Vision" posters seem to be deathly afraid of the "Bigger Picture" posters not wearing masks. This is not about masks, none of the "Bigger Picture" posters have said they will not wear a mask if they can't social distance. The "Covid Tunnel Vision" posters just assume that since the "Bigger Picture" posters don't buy into the covid hysteria that they're not going to wear mask. Masks suck, but they may be effective to some degree. Again I wear a mask if I can't social distance out of respect for others. And again if you run across someone who isn't wearing a mask move 6 feet away. It's that simple. If your around people that are comfortable not wearing a mask, more power to you if you decide to not wear a mask, its called freedom of choice.

So here is @watfly using the same rhetorical device again. When you don’t have facts, or science, or anything on your side, just characterize the person telling you what you don’t want to hear as “gleeful” when people die or “tunnel visioned”. In other words, just attack the person stating the science-backed position because that’s all you have. Me, on the other hand, I’ve got science on my side AND I’m perfectly happy to make personal attacks right back at those who think that’s a useful debate tactic. Super fun.

If anyone is tunnel-visioned, it’s the person who doesn’t wear a mask when they go out and won’t stay home unless they need to go out. It’s the people who look at 120,000 dead, know that number may be 200,000 by November, and label people who understand that those are really big and unnecessary numbers as “hysterical”. But the only people who are hysterical are the whackos going ballistic when Costco or the grocery store won’t let them in unless they put on a mask and storming state capitols with their AR-15s because they think they’ve been denied a 1st amendment right to get a haircut at Sport Clips for a couple months.

 

[Desert Hound]

If your way worked, Arizona would be under control. They tried exactly what you propose, got a huge spike, and now have the governor asking everyone to ”Mask up, Arizona”. Same goes for Texas.

So, enjoy being a “Bigger Spreader” poster if you like, but understand it for what it is.

Well the interesting thing for AZ and the other states with any sudden spikes are that the largest numbers of positive cases are in the younger age groups. And those are the age groups least likely to have an issue. In AZ about half of all positive cases are in the 20-44 age range. That number has been rising. At the same time that age group contributes 92 to the 1450 deaths.

In Cal you see 64% off all positive cases are 49 and younger. And yet they only account for 6% of all deaths.

Cal for instance has been trending up in positive cases now since early April and yet deaths per day remain rather flat. That covers the lag by the way.

The people that have had issues and currently have issues are generally old with serious health issues.

 

[Keepermom2]

 

[watfly]

If your way worked, Arizona would be under control. They tried exactly what you propose, got a huge spike, and now have the governor asking everyone to ”Mask up, Arizona”. Same goes for Texas.

So, enjoy being a “Bigger Spreader” poster if you like, but understand it for what it is.

I'm proposing to wear a mask in public (except when I'm trying to get food or drink in my mouth), not sure how that makes me a super spreader. I take the necessary precautions based on common sense, as do my family and friends. I take an even more cautious approach with our employees because I shouldn't be deciding the level of risk they should accept, that's their choice (see how that works). None of my family or friends has contracted the virus so its worked so far. Only one of our many employees who are in contact with the public on daily basis has contracted Covid and that individual got it from their partner who works in a high risk occupation. Maybe our group is just lucky, but I suspect its because of the reasonable precautions we take.

 

[paytoplay]

1-America does not respond well to public health crises and problems that other advanced countries have already solved (gun deaths, universal health care).

2-Leadership is willfully incompetent. We have poor role models. Trump could wear a mask, but unfortunately he’s a psychopath.

3-Soccer gossip, trashing clubs, refs, coaches is more rewarding than politics.

 

[The Outlaw *BANNED*]

I find it unfortunate how people are so torn on this issue. Copa, Mav, Espola, you guys are honestly a little much on this subject. The problem is, you guys are ok living in a world of fear. Staying home for the time really needed is not an option. We can't do years, which is what would be needed to get done what you would like to get done, to keep this under control. That is the reality, I know you know you can't dispute that. This is now part of our lives and that will be the case for years to come. The idea that the vaccine is going to fix everything is folly. On the flip side, there are quite a few people on here that are like our president, an ostrich in the sand. Nothing is ok and it isn't going to be alright. Our country is an absolute shit show and we have nobody to blame but ourselves. The reality is, we are not wired to deal with things like this because we are arguably the most idealistically diverse country on this planet. We can't compare ourselves to other places because they can get their people behind and idea much better that we can. There is not one single issue that our country could get behind, no matter what it is. Covid, protests, 100 degrees in Antartica, etc are great examples of that fact.

As for any of those people that think that what is going on with our country isn't affecting our youth, you are as bad as our President. I have a 19 and 21 year old home again due to Covid. We sit down and talk as much as we can but this has been devastating to them. Last night, we sat down and talked about a myriad of subjects. The biggest one is suicide. Both of them were surprisingly open about the conversations that they have had with friends in regard to current life. "We have what equates to it is going to be ok, don't do anything stupid talks every week or two amongst friends in our group." That is hard to hear your kids talk about but I appreciate their willingness to talk about it. What I think hurt me the most was the talk of kids. I honestly can't wait to have grandkids to spoil, watch play, etc. I miss that part of my life selfishly more than anything else. Both of my kids said that they are unsure that they want to bring kids into the world any more given what is going on and where we are going. That is frightening to hear kids this age say but they are so frustrated with the way people our age are screwing up this country that they are not sure they want the responsibility of raising kids in the direction we are going. Ouch. Are they wrong?

What makes this country great is also part of our demise. Our individual nature, which I live for, is also what is holding us back in times of crisis. I hope by some act of God we can turn this around but I am not as hopeful as I would like to be. Btw, I am an independent so no political backing here one way or the other. I have voted on both sides as well as the middle once, I prefer to choose who I believe in the most. This November will be the toughest decision ever, 330 million people and these two are the best we can come up with. I teach a PoliSci 102 course, we discuss at length what we should do to revamp the system. The buy in from these 18-20 year olds is outstanding. There is hope if us older folk can just get out of their way....

Our President? Our President knows the government hasn't done shit for the people that pay their salaries. 1 stimulus check this entire time? Californians that have been unemployed and not received a single unemployment check in 3 months? Get off Trump's dick and go call Pelosi... ask that drunken bitch why she managed to get money to The Kennedy Center and illegals but not American tax paying citizens. And "bullshit" to your "no political backing" statement.

 

[The Outlaw *BANNED*]

1-America does not respond well to public health crises and problems that other advanced countries have already solved (gun deaths, universal health care).

2-Leadership is willfully incompetent. We have poor role models. Trump could wear a mask, but unfortunately he’s a psychopath.

3-Soccer gossip, trashing clubs, refs, coaches is more rewarding than politics.

Who solved gun deaths? Have you talked to anyone from a country with "universal healthcare"? And so you know, the U.S. already has universal healthcare. The problem is that not everyone pays into it... only the people with jobs and something to lose. Your governor is a libtard... I've yet to see him wear a mask, but I guess a "role model" wouldn't bang his best friend's wife, either.

 

[EOTL]

I'll just post this again since you have Covid tunnel vision (and because you resort to name calling since the facts don't support your narrative). This is what medical professionals at the highest levels are predicting regarding non-covid impacts vs covid impacts to health. Clearly the non-covid impacts (due to the interruption of treatment and social isolation etc) are substantially greater than the direct covid impacts. Your claims regarding mental health issues are not supported by the concerns of actual medical professionals. Its not with glee that I point out the other negative impacts, I point it out to show we need to consider the bigger picture. I wish for all health impacts to be considered and for limiting those that are be afflicted with Covid, non-Covid and mental health issues. It's an incredibly difficult balancing act, but its impossible to balance if you don't even consider the other health issues. I believe the Covid blanket lockdown was originally done in good faith (despite my belief that a targeted approach would have been significantly more effective) but now its become entirely political and neither the left or Trump can claim innocence.

View attachment 7901

Uh, what you posted is not science, it is a meme. Tell me, where are we on each of the lines? How many people are at the top of each of the fakey fake lines on your meme? What are the specific times when each of the lines reach their apex? There is literally nothing quantifiable about this. Your chart is as scientific as a photo of a chimpanzee wearing a mask accompanied by some zinger.

 

[watfly]

So here is @watfly using the same rhetorical device again. When you don’t have facts, or science, or anything on your side, just characterize the person telling you what you don’t want to hear as “gleeful” when people die or “tunnel visioned”. In other words, just attack the person stating the science-backed position because that’s all you have. Me, on the other hand, I’ve got science on my side AND I’m perfectly happy to make personal attacks right back at those who think that’s a useful debate tactic. Super fun.

If anyone is tunnel-visioned, it’s the person who doesn’t wear a mask when they go out and won’t stay home unless they need to go out. It’s the people who look at 120,000 dead, know that number may be 200,000 by November, and label people who understand that those are really big and unnecessary numbers as “hysterical”. But the only people who are hysterical are the whackos going ballistic when Costco or the grocery store won’t let them in unless they put on a mask and storming state capitols with their AR-15s because they think they’ve been denied a 1st amendment right to get a haircut at Sport Clips for a couple months.

I understand your perspective, but because of our fundamental beliefs you and I will never agree. I fundamentally believe most Americans are smart, hardworking and reasonable and that America is still a great nation despite its many flaws. Whereas you seem to believe that Americans are undeniably stupid as a whole. It really leaves no middle ground.

Best of luck and stay safe.

 

[paytoplay]

Who solved gun deaths? Have you talked to anyone from a country with "universal healthcare"? And so you know, the U.S. already has universal healthcare. The problem is that not everyone pays into it... only the people with jobs and something to lose. Your governor is a libtard... I've yet to see him wear a mask, but I guess a "role model" wouldn't bang his best friend's wife, either.

Just for that, Outlaw, you’re out of the club! Loser.

 

[The Outlaw *BANNED*]

Just for that, Outlaw, you’re out of the club! Loser.

RUN, Forrest, RRRRRRRRRRRUUUUUUUUUUUUUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[watfly]

Uh, what you posted is not science, it is a meme. Tell me, where are we on each of the lines? How many people are at the top of each of the fakey fake lines on your meme? What are the specific times when each of the lines reach their apex? There is literally nothing quantifiable about this. Your chart is as scientific as a photo of a chimpanzee wearing a mask accompanied by some zinger.

Yes, its a graphic illustration because no one can predict the future, but its being taken seriously by at least some at the highest levels of medicine. This was given to me by someone who is responsible for over 10,000 employees of a major health care system. You can turn a blind eye to it, but medical professionals are taking it seriously.

 

[Ellejustus]

I'll just post this again since you have Covid tunnel vision (and because you resort to name calling since the facts don't support your narrative). This is what medical professionals at the highest levels are predicting regarding non-covid impacts vs covid impacts to health. Clearly the non-covid impacts (due to the interruption of treatment and social isolation etc) are substantially greater than the direct covid impacts. Your claims regarding mental health issues are not supported by the concerns of actual medical professionals. Its not with glee that I point out the other negative impacts, I point it out to show we need to consider the bigger picture. I wish for all health impacts to be considered and for limiting those that are be afflicted with Covid, non-Covid and mental health issues. It's an incredibly difficult balancing act, but its impossible to balance if you don't even consider the other health issues. I believe the Covid blanket lockdown was originally done in good faith (despite my belief that a targeted approach would have been significantly more effective) but now its become entirely political and neither the left or Trump can claim innocence.

View attachment 7901

I learned something new from you today watfly. That's why I love this message board. You do have to be careful. Is it your belief that the more name calling and folks calling people names like idot, dam fool, STFU and many others is more of a sign that what your saying is more true because the truth hurts? I can say when the truth hurts me, I hate it and it and I just confess and do better next time. Boy, folks can get real dirty and nasty and do much worse than name calling. Scary time folks but be positive. This will all soon pass and life will be way better. Let's stay positive everyone

 

[Desert Hound]

View attachment 7909

By the way even in OC...54% of all cases are 49 and younger. And yet only contribute 6% of all deaths.

Again it seems that any increase is in the old with serious health issues and or anyone who has serious health issues.

The at risk are the ones that should be staying away from everything if they are worried.

 

[EOTL]

Yes, its a graphic illustration because no one can predict the future, but its being taken seriously by at least some at the highest levels of medicine. This was given to me by someone who is responsible for over 10,000 employees of a major health care system. You can turn a blind eye to it, but medical professionals are taking it seriously.

Please ask your buddy to quantify a single thing on your meme. Just one please.

And, yes, we can predict the future. People who believe in science understood that a lot of people were going to die if Americans did not take this as seriously as they should, and that’s what happened. A few soccer parents, anti-vaxxers and the president of the United States believed 15 people had it and it would soon he down to zero. Just because idiots make idiotic predictions does not mean that the future cannot be predicted.

 

[The Outlaw *BANNED*]

Please ask your buddy to quantify a single thing on your meme. Just one please.

And, yes, we can predict the future. People who believe in science understood that a lot of people were going to die if Americans did not take this as seriously as they should, and that’s what happened. A few soccer parents, anti-vaxxers and the president of the United States believed 15 people had it and it would soon he down to zero. Just because idiots make idiotic predictions does not mean that the future cannot be predicted.

The President can't stop house parties, riots and Chicago mayors from getting haircuts during a quarantine.

 

[watfly]

I learned something new from you today watfly. That's why I love this message board. You do have to be careful. Is it your belief that the more name calling and folks calling people names like idot, dam fool, STFU and many others is more of a sign that what your saying is more true because the truth hurts? I can say when the truth hurts me, I hate it and it and I just confess and do better next time. Boy, folks can get real dirty and nasty and do much worse than name calling. Scary time folks but be positive. This will all soon pass and life will be way better. Let's stay positive everyone

In all fairness some name call out of frustration for not being able to convince the other side of their argument even if their argument is true or reasonable. Unfortunately, our culture is moving to the emotional argument over the factual one. How something makes you feel is more important than what actually happened. Dissenting opinion is so threatening to some that they have to silence it or shout and name call over it. Yes, this divisiveness is not helping our country (and fighting for my position is likely not helping either...I'll blame it on Covid ). It seems were losing the middle ground where compromise can occur. It doesn't help when the far ends of each spectrum are trying to control the narrative when most of the population is just a little bit left or right of center.

 

[MicPaPa]

then go back and read the earlier posts.

You keep talking about infectious disease as a libertarian issue of individual rights. People keep pointing out that your actions affect the health of other people. You keep ignoring them and repeating your personal liberty argument.

No discussion. Just a libertarian absolutist who refuses to think about whether his actions have an impact on other people.

As long as you refuse to to think about this as infectious disease, no one can prove anything to you, because your ears and mind are fully closed.

You've dodged the point for a second time...so, I'll take that as yes, you have a steady income...thus, a completely different perspective, making my point.

No response necessary, I'm board with it. I'm out.