Time to Play

Fair question.....based on the timeline, I would say the protests opened the flood gates.
Only because people chose to react that way. People want to rationalize, because it lets them do what they want.

If you rationalize, you can host a 30 person dance party in your house and still feel good about yourself because at least you aren’t looting Target. It’s still just as bad an idea as it was in April. But now we have a convincing story for when we want to lie to ourselves.

EJ has a point about there being nothing for kids to do. It’s a lot easier for single income families and those with desk jobs who can telecommute. If you have a stay at home parent, you can play a board game or kick a ball with your kid whenever you need. Lots of families don’t have that.

There isn’t much reason for the youth restrictions, especially for those under 10 or 12. But there is way to get rid of them as long we spend our risk budget on dining out, movies, and going mask-free.
 
Only because people chose to react that way. People want to rationalize, because it lets them do what they want.

If you rationalize, you can host a 30 person dance party in your house and still feel good about yourself because at least you aren’t looting Target. It’s still just as bad an idea as it was in April. But now we have a convincing story for when we want to lie to ourselves.

EJ has a point about there being nothing for kids to do. It’s a lot easier for single income families and those with desk jobs who can telecommute. If you have a stay at home parent, you can play a board game or kick a ball with your kid whenever you need. Lots of families don’t have that.

There isn’t much reason for the youth restrictions, especially for those under 10 or 12. But there is way to get rid of them as long we spend our risk budget on dining out, movies, and going mask-free.
U5-U17. I do see your climbing up a little. Kids need a purpose to live folks. Duh!!!
 
Well, it takes 2-3 weeks to have an impact on cases so what happened 2-3 weeks ago? The protests. And it wasn't just the spread from the protests but the protests also caused people to think the emergency was over and to also engage in whataboutism: well, if they can do it what about funerals, what about Trump rallies, what about my business, what about my kid's birthday party, what about youth sports? If the authorities don't treat things as emergencies it's not unfair for people to assume the emergency is over.

Add to that the pathetic mask handling of our leadership. Fauci admitted he lied about the mask thing early on, so like the boy who cried wolf the public is skeptical. The WHO lied and continues to lie. Trump won't wear one. Don't know if you saw the fiasco (both in behavior and mask usage, by both Nadler and the Republicans) at the House committee hearing yesterday. And I had to deal with 2 cops yesterday and both of them showed up without masks and didn't put them on until they were shamed by a neighbor and her baby.

There's also the possibility that the wave curves are rigid. For states which didn't have outbreaks like the northeast, the only thing the lockdowns did was push the outbreaks back in time. We see that not only in the south but also in the Eastern Europe and even in Eastern Germany. The most persuasive point on this is the difference between NorCal and SoCal which locked down around the same time and have similar rules and mask requirements. Like a brush fire, unless you smother it right at the inception, it may be it has to burn through a certain amount of brush before it can be controlled. The other underwritten thing is that if you've seen what's going on in Mexico, people are fleeing due to the poor medical treatment there...some of the hospital spike in the southern area is being driven by people coming north, though the percentage is unclear and it could be a small effect or a large one.

The initial idea was that we were going to flatten the curve and give ICUs time to prepare. We did that. We don't at this point really have any choice but to move forward with life because the protests broke the possibility of having any limiting principle on gatherings, and we are heading into a huge trainwreck with the 4th of July where many informal celebrations will also be protected by the first amendment. Hopefully people will wear masks when sensible, but at this point the kids may as well play because if movie theatres are open, there's no reason for limiting the kids.
To restate what we already know, the PUBLIC protests from the right wing groups, open carry militias and anti-maskers, Michigan, Huntington Beach, etc., and the actions of Trump to undermine and make political the pandemic response, immediately preceded the George Floyd protests. Let’s not forget the idiots like the ones out there on PCH at Main Beach breached the damn first. Not to excuse the blm protests, but when half the country started to disregard the idea behind shutdown, inevitably the virus would come back strong. That’s why cases and deaths are growing in states that don’t necessarily correlate to the blm protests, and are more about denial of the whole endeavor and a wish to return to “normal.”
 
U5-U17. I do see your climbing up a little. Kids need a purpose to live folks. Duh!!!
olders are still higher risk than youngers. If I we a cluster caused by an outdoor game, I’ll be back to advocating under 10 only.

Kids only, either way. No need for a cluster of 45 year olds on the sideline talking to each other. That’s riskier than the game.
 
Weak... I'm all ears.
then go back and read the earlier posts.

You keep talking about infectious disease as a libertarian issue of individual rights. People keep pointing out that your actions affect the health of other people. You keep ignoring them and repeating your personal liberty argument.

No discussion. Just a libertarian absolutist who refuses to think about whether his actions have an impact on other people.

As long as you refuse to to think about this as infectious disease, no one can prove anything to you, because your ears and mind are fully closed.
 
olders are still higher risk than youngers. If I we a cluster caused by an outdoor game, I’ll be back to advocating under 10 only.

Kids only, either way. No need for a cluster of 45 year olds on the sideline talking to each other. That’s riskier than the game.
But beach is ok to hang out all day? Tell you want dad of 4 kids with nothing else to do, let us take the risk and you stay home this season. I know your really jealous of being left out of the party like copa and others. If you can;t have the top league, no one can is some folks motto. Like most with that attitude, money is no worry. I bet all you with nice jobs that are safe from never losing your gig would go cray cray if your industry ((career or job)) just disappeared like fart in the wind that will never come back. So now all the negative parents who lost their income need to find work and also keep their four kids entertained? My sister in law is a single mom of three and also a middle school counselor in Riverside. My mother in law used to watch the kids but can;t because she's 75 and has health issues. She is left alone with zero help and has to teach somehow in August and also watch her three kids. The oldest boy is a stud at GSFC and can;t play or play hoops and all that stuff. The other two were going to play AYSO and other activities but they can't. I spoke to her and it's been very difficult to say the least. This is going on everywhere.
 
I find it unfortunate how people are so torn on this issue. Copa, Mav, Espola, you guys are honestly a little much on this subject. The problem is, you guys are ok living in a world of fear. Staying home for the time really needed is not an option. We can't do years, which is what would be needed to get done what you would like to get done, to keep this under control. That is the reality, I know you know you can't dispute that. This is now part of our lives and that will be the case for years to come. The idea that the vaccine is going to fix everything is folly. On the flip side, there are quite a few people on here that are like our president, an ostrich in the sand. Nothing is ok and it isn't going to be alright. Our country is an absolute shit show and we have nobody to blame but ourselves. The reality is, we are not wired to deal with things like this because we are arguably the most idealistically diverse country on this planet. We can't compare ourselves to other places because they can get their people behind and idea much better that we can. There is not one single issue that our country could get behind, no matter what it is. Covid, protests, 100 degrees in Antartica, etc are great examples of that fact.

As for any of those people that think that what is going on with our country isn't affecting our youth, you are as bad as our President. I have a 19 and 21 year old home again due to Covid. We sit down and talk as much as we can but this has been devastating to them. Last night, we sat down and talked about a myriad of subjects. The biggest one is suicide. Both of them were surprisingly open about the conversations that they have had with friends in regard to current life. "We have what equates to it is going to be ok, don't do anything stupid talks every week or two amongst friends in our group." That is hard to hear your kids talk about but I appreciate their willingness to talk about it. What I think hurt me the most was the talk of kids. I honestly can't wait to have grandkids to spoil, watch play, etc. I miss that part of my life selfishly more than anything else. Both of my kids said that they are unsure that they want to bring kids into the world any more given what is going on and where we are going. That is frightening to hear kids this age say but they are so frustrated with the way people our age are screwing up this country that they are not sure they want the responsibility of raising kids in the direction we are going. Ouch. Are they wrong?

What makes this country great is also part of our demise. Our individual nature, which I live for, is also what is holding us back in times of crisis. I hope by some act of God we can turn this around but I am not as hopeful as I would like to be. Btw, I am an independent so no political backing here one way or the other. I have voted on both sides as well as the middle once, I prefer to choose who I believe in the most. This November will be the toughest decision ever, 330 million people and these two are the best we can come up with. I teach a PoliSci 102 course, we discuss at length what we should do to revamp the system. The buy in from these 18-20 year olds is outstanding. There is hope if us older folk can just get out of their way....
 
But beach is ok to hang out all day? Tell you want dad of 4 kids with nothing else to do, let us take the risk and you stay home this season. I know your really jealous of being left out of the party like copa and others. If you can;t have the top league, no one can is some folks motto. Like most with that attitude, money is no worry. I bet all you with nice jobs that are safe from never losing your gig would go cray cray if your industry ((career or job)) just disappeared like fart in the wind that will never come back. So now all the negative parents who lost their income need to find work and also keep their four kids entertained? My sister in law is a single mom of three and also a middle school counselor in Riverside. My mother in law used to watch the kids but can;t because she's 75 and has health issues. She is left alone with zero help and has to teach somehow in August and also watch her three kids. The oldest boy is a stud at GSFC and can;t play or play hoops and all that stuff. The other two were going to play AYSO and other activities but they can't. I spoke to her and it's been very difficult to say the least. This is going on everywhere.
I am a single parent of 2 girls and I am self employed with no family near by. I am not sure where my future income will come from and if they will allow me to work at home. If I die, my children will have no parent because I adopted them on my own. So...be careful about assuming you know everyone's situation.
 
I'll just add to the points already made. It's easy for club soccer parents who typically have, comparatively speaking, a more stable financial and home situation, to say just stay at home, etc. However, the lockdown and social isolation negatively impacts the underprivileged and disadvantaged children disproportionally more than our kids. This upcoming school year is likely to be a disaster for many of the underprivileged kids. I hate the word "new normal", particularly as it relates to education. The "new normal" will result in substandard education because there is no replacement for in-person, interactive learning. Once the "new normal" is implemented this fall its likely never to change back to traditional learning, because that's just how our government works. The underprivileged have not been well served by our educational community in many cases, and this will only cause them to fall farther and farther behind. Although, these kids aren't likely playing club sports, they need some sort of sport or exercise as an outlet. PE in a lot of schools is being banned. Those that are physically in school will be tethered to their desks for the entire school day. It's sad to punish children in the name of a virus that has little to no impact on them.

On an entirely different note, a shout out to GraceT who months ago predicted that because of the early shutdown in California that Covid cases would be drawn out and smolder over a long period of time. Logic prevails.
 
Just looked and the death rate continues to nosedive. I suppose you are looking at the new cases which you will claim due to the tired refrain of "lag time" will result in significant deaths. (BTW Georgia has been reopened for months and I find it curious that there is a sudden spike a week or two after the protests, looting and riots.) I'm sure you will post here in glee if that ever turns out to be right. Like I said before I find it extremely odd behavior to want things to be worse than they are.

Unfortunately I know a couple teens in our community who have committed suicide as well as a few more in other communities. Was it due to the social isolation, hard to say, but suicide is one of the non-covid health impacts of the lockdown that medical professional are very concerned about. In fact some are seeing an unprecedented rise in suicides https://abc7news.com/suicide-covid-19-coronavirus-rates-during-pandemic-death-by/6201962/

This whole tunnel vision with Covid approach is seriously fucked up.

I love how you and others are already preparing to be wrong. When more people die as a result of the abysmal way Covid is being handled in the US, the only thing you will be able to do to avoid confronting that you’re an idiot is to claim that everyone who was right is “gleeful” that more people are dying. But the truth is no one is gloating about it, and the only one who’s a POS is the person who mocks the very simple and obvious concept of wearing a face covering, lacks the discipline to avoid crowds whenever possible and is also too much of a p**y to accept responsibility for their role in advocating and supporting obviously stupid behavior that kills people.

And suggesting suicides are up because of the particular things the government is doing about Covid that you don’t like is just ludicrous. Using your own rhetorical device against you, it just shows how “gleeful” you are about people dying so you can rationalize why you want to go to the brewery and live vicariously through your child’s sports.

But if you want to speculate so badly why a few teens have committed suicide, I’m going to speculate that there are a lot of other more likely reasons than not being able to play team sports or going out to dinner for a couple months. I’m going to speculate that there’s an overall feeling among much of our youth that now is the worst time ever to be an American, and are embarrassed to even be one. They see the EU propose banning Americans due to our poor handling of Covid, which is a polite way of saying the EU plans to ban Americans because they’re undeniably stupid as a whole. They see their government ruling based on fear and fueled by hate of entire classes of people, to which many of them either belong or support. They’re seeing American Aryan Hitler Youth claiming - in church of all places - that Aunt Jemima symbolizes the American Dream. They see the irony and sadness in the fact that our privileged little dumb blonde is actually telling everyone, without realizing it, that the idea of the American Dream that their parents held onto so dearly is a farce. They see their own moronic parents claim that people out protesting are stupid, but then turn right around and use those stupid people as their excuse to go out themselves. They’re seeing idiots claim that wearing masks are killing people because air can’t get in and out, but also claiming that masks don’t work because, uh, the air that carries the virus does get in and out.

And there’s also no telling whether sitting at home is a bigger factor in depression than if there had been no sheltering and a lot more people, including friends and family members, had died instead. In short, speculating that shelter-in-place restrictions were a bad idea because maybe perhaps it contributed to a few suicides is just grasping at straws in a weak effort to rationalize why getting a beer at the brewery is more important to you than, well, people living.
 
To restate what we already know, the PUBLIC protests from the right wing groups, open carry militias and anti-maskers, Michigan, Huntington Beach, etc., and the actions of Trump to undermine and make political the pandemic response, immediately preceded the George Floyd protests. Let’s not forget the idiots like the ones out there on PCH at Main Beach breached the damn first. Not to excuse the blm protests, but when half the country started to disregard the idea behind shutdown, inevitably the virus would come back strong. That’s why cases and deaths are growing in states that don’t necessarily correlate to the blm protests, and are more about denial of the whole endeavor and a wish to return to “normal.”

Well, I have plenty of criticism for Trump (he did something things right too, and there's some things that you can't blame him for unless you take the buck-stops-here position in which case Cuomo is an outright murderer). But the public was unified against the lockdown protests, or at the miminum felt that like drive thru worship they should have been limited to driving (and some were). You may have a point it seeded thing, but it didn't break the dam. And you are right, if you want to point to seeding it was the poor leadership among our politicians (left and right) and supposedly-neutral experts that led to this, whether decisions to not reign in out of control cops, stupid decisions like close the beaches, or decisions target can sell food but has to close gardening supplies, or public health officers saying the protests were o.k. because they were important (everyone has something important) or their personal decisions to get haircuts or go to their second homes when the public was stuck at home. If you are going to get mad, be mad at all of them, because they were all (for the most part) horrible, left and right, elected and appointed.

But the fact remains the protests shattered any limiting standard, and we are headed for a train wreck on the 4th of July. You can't say limit 4th celebrations but the protests continue to this day, because it's patently unconstitutional to do that. So, let em play...even if it's as bad as the doom and gloomers say (and it isn't), no reason to pick on the kids when everyone is doing what they want.
 
I am a single parent of 2 girls and I am self employed with no family near by. I am not sure where my future income will come from and if they will allow me to work at home. If I die, my children will have no parent because I adopted them on my own. So...be careful about assuming you know everyone's situation.
That's awesome you adopted two kids :) and the future is not looking good for many on the income front. I wasn;t speaking to you at all. I dont know you. I was just sharing a true story that is from a personal experience. Thanks for sharing :)
 
I'll just add to the points already made. It's easy for club soccer parents who typically have, comparatively speaking, a more stable financial and home situation, to say just stay at home, etc. However, the lockdown and social isolation negatively impacts the underprivileged and disadvantaged children disproportionally more than our kids. This upcoming school year is likely to be a disaster for many of the underprivileged kids. I hate the word "new normal", particularly as it relates to education. The "new normal" will result in substandard education because there is no replacement for in-person, interactive learning. Once the "new normal" is implemented this fall its likely never to change back to traditional learning, because that's just how our government works. The underprivileged have not been well served by our educational community in many cases, and this will only cause them to fall farther and farther behind. Although, these kids aren't likely playing club sports, they need some sort of sport or exercise as an outlet. PE in a lot of schools is being banned. Those that are physically in school will be tethered to their desks for the entire school day. It's sad to punish children in the name of a virus that has little to no impact on them.

On an entirely different note, a shout out to GraceT who months ago predicted that because of the early shutdown in California that Covid cases would be drawn out and smolder over a long period of time. Logic prevails.
Is the PE teacher toast now? When I was doing some student teaching and observing others to see if I wanted to be PE teacher and the hoops coach, I talked with many teachers and some seem to not like the PE teacher who happens to be head baseball coach too. I was told from many that PE will be the first to go and here we are. What happens to the PE teacher?
 
I love how you and others are already preparing to be wrong. When more people die as a result of the abysmal way Covid is being handled in the US, the only thing you will be able to do to avoid confronting that you’re an idiot is to claim that everyone who was right is “gleeful” that more people are dying. But the truth is no one is gloating about it, and the only one who’s a POS is the person who mocks the very simple and obvious concept of wearing a face covering, lacks the discipline to avoid crowds whenever possible and is also too much of a p**y to accept responsibility for their role in advocating and supporting obviously stupid behavior that kills people.

And suggesting suicides are up because of the particular things the government is doing about Covid that you don’t like is just ludicrous. Using your own rhetorical device against you, it just shows how “gleeful” you are about people dying so you can rationalize why you want to go to the brewery and live vicariously through your child’s sports.

But if you want to speculate so badly why a few teens have committed suicide, I’m going to speculate that there are a lot of other more likely reasons than not being able to play team sports or going out to dinner for a couple months. I’m going to speculate that there’s an overall feeling among much of our youth that now is the worst time ever to be an American, and are embarrassed to even be one. They see the EU propose banning Americans due to our poor handling of Covid, which is a polite way of saying the EU plans to ban Americans because they’re undeniably stupid as a whole. They see their government ruling based on fear and fueled by hate of entire classes of people, to which many of them either belong or support. They’re seeing American Aryan Hitler Youth claiming - in church of all places - that Aunt Jemima symbolizes the American Dream. They see the irony and sadness in the fact that our privileged little dumb blonde is actually telling everyone, without realizing it, that the idea of the American Dream that their parents held onto so dearly is a farce. They see their own moronic parents claim that people out protesting are stupid, but then turn right around and use those stupid people as their excuse to go out themselves. They’re seeing idiots claim that wearing masks are killing people because air can’t get in and out, but also claiming that masks don’t work because, uh, the air that carries the virus does get in and out.

And there’s also no telling whether sitting at home is a bigger factor in depression than if there had been no sheltering and a lot more people, including friends and family members, had died instead. In short, speculating that shelter-in-place restrictions were a bad idea because maybe perhaps it contributed to a few suicides is just grasping at straws in a weak effort to rationalize why getting a beer at the brewery is more important to you than, well, people living.
So I already copied and shared this response with a friend. We agreed...you hit the nail on the head!!!!
 
That's awesome you adopted two kids :) and the future is not looking good for many on the income front. I wasn;t speaking to you at all. I dont know you. I was just sharing a true story that is from a personal experience. Thanks for sharing :)
The tone of your posts appear to lump everyone in that disagrees with you into the rich, easy life category, and I just wanted to dispel that myth. Thanks for the nice comment.
 
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