baldref
GOLD
and my buff frame won't be blocking your view as i sprint by like carl lewis
Referees - what can we all do to improve the situation?
- Thread starter Paul Spacey
- Start date
End of the Line
SILVER ELITE
So far, I have liked many of the things you have said/posted. The whole ACL thread was a bit entertaining and the science is there confirming a higher incidence of non-contact ACL injuries in one gender vs. the other. That said, little zingers to a group/class of people are fine, but individual zingers will quickly degrade the conversation. Consider making a modification.
The soccer rule book is actually called the Laws of the Game.
Your point is taken and I will consider it, but only because you tend to say good stuff and make the effort to flatter me. This was an interesting interaction for sure. Certainly, I could have posted "I respectfully disagree with your opinion. I think most children will not be adversely impacted in their ability to discern how to best approach their runs in future games if they are forced to adapt to a bad ref in a game. Refs are just doing their best, are paid very little and deserve a ton of latitude." Such a response is completely obvious, lacks value and, frankly, shouldn't need to be said at all. Alternatively, I could have been a complete jerk and said "that's one of the dumbest things I've heard in a while". I'm a little offended that comment was insufficient to merit a rebuke from you compared to my response (that got a bunch of likes by the way), but I won't hold it against you. Regardless, I'm not sure I am responsible for this conversation jumping the rails. Sure, we both knew where this was likely to go with my first comment, but is it really my fault that people say stupid things and are so serious that they can't take some ribbing? Maybe I can put the fun back in the sport and also run off the people who make it insufferable.
Which brings me back to the "Laws of the Game". Of course I know the name of the name of FIFA's rulebook. Speaking of pretension and an over-inflated sense of importance, did you know that the very first sentence of the rulebook is "Football is the greatest game on earth"? C'mon everyone. They're just rules for a game being played by your kid. The MLB baseball rulebook introduction, in contrast, explains it applies to only to pros and that youth organizations can look to their rules but modify according to their own needs. How refreshing that a professional sport doesn't dictate how, when and where a 9 year old gets to play it. The entire culture of soccer is ridiculous and too serious, whether its complaining how refs are ruining their children, the title of the rulebook, the incessant need on the men's side for the US to better at a sport in which we've never been good in the entire history of time, the belief the sky is falling on the women's side every time we "only" win the WC but fail to trounce every opponent by at least 4 goals, and with a commensurate amount of style and grace required to pay appropriate homage to the "beautiful game" (another term that should be banned forever). Relax. It's just a game. That ref you're complaining about was doing their best, and that is all you can expect for your $3.
Nope. You clearly did miss my point. See my near rant above about how little the outcome of these games matter. Trying to guess how someone thinks from a couple of posts on a form usually fails.
"...they should adapt..."
Right, and they do. That's my point. They adapt to their situation and those adaptations often make them lazy or keep them from trying things because they know they're going to get an incorrect call.
I seem to have unintentionally hit a nerve and that wasn't my intention.
I think you may have misunderstood what I posted. I fully agree that the outcomes of these games are meaningless. I said so in my post. I don't care who wins or looses, especially in U12 DA. What I care about is that kids play good soccer and while I agree that they're going to have to adapt to refs their entire careers, we've had refs that clearly don't understand how the offside rule works and when that happens, it affects how the kids play - which is the important part.
Again, I seem to have touched a nerve and I didn't mean to. This is just an observation I've made from watching a lot of youth soccer. While the results don't matter, the kids don't like to loose on the day (who does?) and they adapt their play to match the ref. If the reffing is good, they will adapt to match that. If it's bad, they'll adapt accordingly.
Paul Spacey
SILVER ELITE
Sounds a bit like perhaps you’re not that keen on soccer but feel baseball is ‘the worlds game’ instead...I guess it does have the WORLD Series (see what I did there?)...Soccer just happens to be the most popular sport in the world; by a long, long, loooong way. So to call it the greatest game on earth (though not technically correct as that is subjective), maybe isn’t stretching too far IMO.
Hope you don’t mind the ‘ribbing’...
Surfref
PREMIER
F’ing again!! Two referees I worked with today were lazy, did not run and not up to date on the LOTG especially Law 11. One guy literally stayed in or near the center circle for most of the game. I think these idiots forget that we get paid to do a job. If they worked as poorly during their normal job they would get fired.
baldref
GOLD
i had a couple of decent young men for my first two. one had the center in the first match and did reasonably well. we were both Ar's in the third match and at the end of that game, lost badly by a sd united team, some moron assistant coach decided to berate the young man. i sprinted across from my line and got in his face. hopefully our center will write him up as i asked him to. i just don't get it. that team played horribly so the ass coach wants to scream at some kid with the flag like it was his fault?
Come work the DA12 games, no other refs to worry about but yourself. It won't fill a full slate but might be a good break and you'll see some decent soccer.
baldref
GOLD
I had. U10 7v7 solo yesterday
It was a girls team and a boys team
Really fun game
Good soccer
Long thread and I'm surprised nobody brought this up yet. I know this can be a point of contention, but I do believe that those who played the game themselves do make better referees, especially at the higher levels of the game. Like many said before, a lot is left to the referee's interpretation, and having the past context can help apply the rules in a way the players on the field expect it. Totally understand that we don't have enough referees as is and can't make this a condition of employment, and that there are always exceptions, but personally I can almost always tell the difference between a ref who themselves played at a high level and one who did not (both as a player in the past and as a spectator in youth soccer more recently).
Surfref
PREMIER
I would send an email to a Jack D. and C.c. PM and DW. Let them know what happened. Jack will take care of the Ass Coach especially since a youth referee was involved. PM or DW should call the youth ref and tell him good job and that the Ass Coach’s yelling has been addressed by the league.
baldref
GOLD
I already sent the email to P. Didn't think to include Jack.....
Uh oh
MijoPlumber
SILVER
Mijo, Bad coach making bad behavior needs to be fined and pay up of get the boot. They need to set the example for the kids.
GunninGopher
SILVER ELITE
JH?
Overlap
SILVER ELITE
Okay, I have to post this from last weekend, I'm still laughing....my last email had mentioned the Ref's speaking to the other side in Spanish through out the game right? On to last weekend, same deal, the ref's were nice enough however, several calls you could see neither one knew what the call was as they weren't in view, kind of funny to watch but getting annoying by this point as our team is in control and up 1-0 first half. Their forward gets a break away to which our center defender makes a great block, ball rolls off the right side of the goal, kid is slow to get up, our GK sets the ball to kick it out only to have the ref say it was a goal!!! Everyone and I mean EVERYONE was shocked, players were walking back and the other sides cheers were short as they knew it wasn't a goal. The game goes to half 1-1, second half our team is still in control however, not getting good shots off, several offside calls and after the 3 or 4 of them, our player gets the pass in front of 3 defenders, passes all 3 on the outside and starts cutting toward the goal at about 20 yards out only to get called for offsides, WTH! 
by this time the parents have had enough and are screaming at the ref crew, I'm laughing as it was my kid heading to goal and she looks at me and all I can do is laugh and shrug my shoulders. The game continues, I'm looking at my watch and see about 22 seconds left, I'm thinking, well a tie is better than a loss...they get a shot, our GK blocks it, punts it right in front of our right mid, she takes it about 10 yards, makes the cross, their GK is heading at our forward and our FWD makes the best light touch over their GK's head into the net with only a few seconds left! Sometimes no matter how bad the ref's are, you get the breaks, even if they take the entire second half!......PLAY ON!!!
by this time the parents have had enough and are screaming at the ref crew, I'm laughing as it was my kid heading to goal and she looks at me and all I can do is laugh and shrug my shoulders. The game continues, I'm looking at my watch and see about 22 seconds left, I'm thinking, well a tie is better than a loss...they get a shot, our GK blocks it, punts it right in front of our right mid, she takes it about 10 yards, makes the cross, their GK is heading at our forward and our FWD makes the best light touch over their GK's head into the net with only a few seconds left! Sometimes no matter how bad the ref's are, you get the breaks, even if they take the entire second half!......PLAY ON!!!
Paul Spacey
SILVER ELITE
Nothing will change and nothing will improve (on the part of coaches, parents and referees) until a robust rating system is introduced and there are clear/firm consequences for individuals and teams who conduct themselves poorly.
Surfref
PREMIER
Okay, I have to post this from last weekend, I'm still laughing....my last email had mentioned the Ref's speaking to the other side in Spanish through out the game right? On to last weekend, same deal, the ref's were nice enough however, several calls you could see neither one knew what the call was as they weren't in view, kind of funny to watch but getting annoying by this point as our team is in control and up 1-0 first half. Their forward gets a break away to which our center defender makes a great block, ball rolls off the right side of the goal, kid is slow to get up, our GK sets the ball to kick it out only to have the ref say it was a goal!!! Everyone and I mean EVERYONE was shocked, players were walking back and the other sides cheers were short as they knew it wasn't a goal. The game goes to half 1-1, second half our team is still in control however, not getting good shots off, several offside calls and after the 3 or 4 of them, our player gets the pass in front of 3 defenders, passes all 3 on the outside and starts cutting toward the goal at about 20 yards out only to get called for offsides, WTH!
I have said this before, video tape every game and make sure the refs see the camera. If you do get a bias ref, hopefully the camera will keep them honest. If not, then you have video evidence.
baldref
GOLD
and more than likely when someone sees the video, they will explain to you that your bias makes you see things less true.
TangoCity
GOLD
We video tape every game. We have captured some awful game deciding calls and some incredibly dirty/dangerous play by "a certain team" (two separate things). From my experience, NOBODY cares about your video unless it is elevated to an extremely high level on both sides. Even with all this concussion training that they make parents/kids take before you can play in the gaming circuit, when it comes down to kids actually getting concussions and going to emergency rooms -> THEY STILL DON'T CARE (They = Cal South, CSL). With the concussion training THEY are only just checking a box for liability purposes. Keep video taping but keep in mind that nobody (I mean nobody) will give a sh-- about the bad call(s) that you taped.