CalSouth National Cup Question (use of ECNL players)

[jrcaesar]

Why do people care so much about not having better players play down?

Because the team has played and bonded together since August tournaments, and suddenly adding non-teammates pushes others aside. The top 7 on the team might be happy about it, but not the other 8. Now ... if there's a tryout session, etc., first, then all bets are off. But it's usually that players drop in at warm-ups known only to the coach ... who has probably been planning for it since November and the players (expecting to play that day) and parent$ are just finding out about it 12 weeks later. Simple answer.

(I'm just answering the question, btw.)

 

[MakeAPlay]

Because the team has played and bonded together since August tournaments, and suddenly adding non-teammates pushes others aside. The top 7 on the team might be happy about it, but not the other 8. Now ... if there's a tryout session, etc., first, then all bets are off. But it's usually that players drop in at warm-ups known only to the coach ... who has probably been planning for it since November and the players (expecting to play that day) and parent$ are just finding out about it 12 weeks later. Simple answer.

(I'm just answering the question, btw.)

Thanks for the reply. I come from a background of survival of the fittest. If somebody comes along that is better then a particular player they have 2 choices. Either (wo)man up and work harder and take your spot back or quit. Club soccer is so protectionist anyway with pay for play being a significant obstacle for many superior athletes. It just seems like typical first world entitled crying to me. If a player isn't good enough to EARN their minutes by being a better player then let mommy and daddy cry about it. If you ask me more than anything else including incompetent coaching, this is why we are losing ground to the rest of the world in women's soccer. The US has such a me first, entitled attitude instead of a true meritocracy like our other sports.

By the way this wasn't aimed at you it is just a general statement. Thanks again for the reply.

 

[jrcaesar]

Yep .. no problem.

To offer an opinion (because I agree with you in general), it's the coach's being afraid (maybe?) to let the parents know in advance that, "hey, I have had this idea since November that when we play in an hour, these kids you've seen with the other team will be playing instead of the kids you know." To me, that's the conflict that can be resolved easily.

 

[ESPNANALYST]

Thanks for the reply. I come from a background of survival of the fittest. If somebody comes along that is better then a particular player they have 2 choices. Either (wo)man up and work harder and take your spot back or quit. Club soccer is so protectionist anyway with pay for play being a significant obstacle for many superior athletes. It just seems like typical first world entitled crying to me. If a player isn't good enough to EARN their minutes by being a better player then let mommy and daddy cry about it. If you ask me more than anything else including incompetent coaching, this is why we are losing ground to the rest of the world in women's soccer. The US has such a me first, entitled attitude instead of a true meritocracy like our other sports.

By the way this wasn't aimed at you it is just a general statement. Thanks again for the reply.

That argument only works if it's an ecnl team. The club already decided that the B team players weren't at that level.
They decided the ecnl player was better and placed her at the appropriate level. To then use said better player to advance a team in an essentially b team tourney lesser than her skill level is sandbagging at best and pathetic at worst.
For the record to me there is no angst against a family unless the family is shopping The daughter (again pathetic) and no shame against a girl who wants to play.
I think it's a sad state of affairs of a coach or club that does that and there is a pretty glaring example of that two years ago at a National Championship when they brought ECNL players down or an ECNL ringer up. Happen to know two of the girls and they were so hurt the exact quote was "we came our whole season without them to get here and now he brings them over to win this..."

 

[ESPNANALYST]

PSS
Meritocracy can only exist if Club takes ownership of the issues. I don't see that occurring. One can argue that politics will exist always. That being said after like you collegiate athletics and having many other children in many other sports I see SoCal soccer as truly non merit based on a lot of instances

 

[MakeAPlay]

PSS
Meritocracy can only exist if Club takes ownership of the issues. I don't see that occurring. One can argue that politics will exist always. That being said after like you collegiate athletics and having many other children in many other sports I see SoCal soccer as truly non merit based on a lot of instances

I agree with you and THAT is the true problem. It could easily be solved by eliminating 50-75% of the teams. Make kids earn a spot on a club team and everyone else plays rec or AYSO extra. Top players will not guest play for a rec team in most cases.

 

[MakeAPlay]

That argument only works if it's an ecnl team. The club already decided that the B team players weren't at that level.
They decided the ecnl player was better and placed her at the appropriate level. To then use said better player to advance a team in an essentially b team tourney lesser than her skill level is sandbagging at best and pathetic at worst.
For the record to me there is no angst against a family unless the family is shopping The daughter (again pathetic) and no shame against a girl who wants to play.
I think it's a sad state of affairs of a coach or club that does that and there is a pretty glaring example of that two years ago at a National Championship when they brought ECNL players down or an ECNL ringer up. Happen to know two of the girls and they were so hurt the exact quote was "we came our whole season without them to get here and now he brings them over to win this..."

I hear you and I am a parent of a former "B" team player. I never complained when an "A" team player guest played for a tournament. I even lobbied for the player to move to her team. Again I have the mentality that fighting through adversity is one of the best lessons that sports can teach you. Getting screwed over and then coming back and overcoming it is one of the most satisfying lessons that a player can learn and it is a lesson that EVERYONE is confronted with eventually.

I am not saying that it is fair. It just is what it is.

 

[ESPNANALYST]

I hear you and I am a parent of a former "B" team player. I never complained when an "A" team player guest played for a tournament. I even lobbied for the player to move to her team. Again I have the mentality that fighting through adversity is one of the best lessons that sports can teach you. Getting screwed over and then coming back and overcoming it is one of the most satisfying lessons that a player can learn and it is a lesson that EVERYONE is confronted with eventually.

I am not saying that it is fair. It just is what it is.

Oh I agree and credit that as to the only reason why mine clawed through. She should write those former coaches a thank you letter for the inspiration ❤
Point is some coaches don't get the fact that the girls are old enough to see through the garbage. Forget us- the parents- you can't be a leader like that to young women and expect to produce results year after year.

 

[ESPNANALYST]

I agree with you and THAT is the true problem. It could easily be solved by eliminating 50-75% of the teams. Make kids earn a spot on a club team and everyone else plays rec or AYSO extra. Top players will not guest play for a rec team in most cases.

Agree or a regional travel team like boys side does. Solves a lot of problems honestly.

 

[The Driver]

Looking at the bracket I am excited and looking forward to playing in group E. I don't believe we played any of the 3 in the group unless it was during CRL in the spring. Always fun to play against new faces and see the girls play under a bit of pressure. Good Luck To All

 

[bababooey]

I agree with you and THAT is the true problem. It could easily be solved by eliminating 50-75% of the teams. Make kids earn a spot on a club team and everyone else plays rec or AYSO extra. Top players will not guest play for a rec team in most cases.

Yes, there are too many club teams, but with the money generated by those teams and the compensation that the DOC's make, I don't think we will see fewer teams anytime soon. Until the pay to play system is abandoned (which would be never in our capitalist society), it will not change.

As I stated before, if the parents are willing to pay thousands of dollars for their players to play on the C, D or E teams, why should we worry?

 

[bababooey]

Looking at the bracket I am excited and looking forward to playing in group E. I don't believe we played any of the 3 in the group unless it was during CRL in the spring. Always fun to play against new faces and see the girls play under a bit of pressure. Good Luck To All

I completely agree. I love when we play teams that we have not played multiple times in the past. That is usually one of the best things about Surf Cup, Vegas Cup, etc.

 

[tugs]

Oh I agree and credit that as to the only reason why mine clawed through. She should write those former coaches a thank you letter for the inspiration ❤
Point is some coaches don't get the fact that the girls are old enough to see through the garbage. Forget us- the parents- you can't be a leader like that to young women and expect to produce results year after year.

Remember coaches get $$ bonuses for winning said titles so some are more inclined to win at all costs than others...

 

[MakeAPlay]

Yes, there are too many club teams, but with the money generated by those teams and the compensation that the DOC's make, I don't think we will see fewer teams anytime soon. Until the pay to play system is abandoned (which would be never in our capitalist society), it will not change.

As I stated before, if the parents are willing to pay thousands of dollars for their players to play on the C, D or E teams, why should we worry?

Hey I agree with you. This is America and people should be free to spend their money in whatever way that they want to. That doesn't change the fact that the clubs enriching themselves by taking players that are clearly rec level is one of the banes of development in the US. If there were fewer teams there would be much stiffer competition (and less games). Again I said before that my desire for less teams would be selfish as it would favor elite players. No worries. It will be interesting to see how things work out going forward.

 

[SoccerLife75]

Can 03's playing up in 02 National cup play in 03 National Cup with younger team?

 

[mbeach]

Can 03's playing up in 02 National cup play in 03 National Cup with younger team?

No. I sent an email to calsouth asking about this and they replied "no". The exact reply was:

No, per Cal South State Cup rules a player may only play with one team in one Cal South State tournament per year.
Thank you for deciding to participate in the Cal South State Cup Tournament, the world’s largest youth soccer tournament.

Regards:
CAL SOUTH
Craig Mues
State Cup Program Manager

e-mail: cmues@calsouth.com

Phone: 909-973-0827

 

[ESPNANALYST]

And now Sharks is ECNL.
Wow!

 

[Surfref]

You guys need to read the ECNL handbook and rules. ECNL players are not allowed to play for non-ECNL teams unless released by the ECNL team. If you know for a fact that an ECNL player is playing on a non-ECNL team, than send an email to ECNL and report them. If true, ECNL will fine and sanction the team.

 

[Sunil Illuminati]

Getting ECNL status at this point is like winning a Discman

 

[Soccer123]

No. I sent an email to calsouth asking about this and they replied "no". The exact reply was:

No, per Cal South State Cup rules a player may only play with one team in one Cal South State tournament per year.
Thank you for deciding to participate in the Cal South State Cup Tournament, the world’s largest youth soccer tournament.

Regards:
CAL SOUTH
Craig Mues
State Cup Program Manager

e-mail: cmues@calsouth.com

Phone: 909-973-0827

Thank you Cal South! GREAT RULE! Love it!