2020...

Hüsker Dü said:
Only if it's a made up story.
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Andy Dukes said:
He was writing a book. A book about history. And in it he heard that one member of Congress may have been a member of a group of hackers. He could not confirm it but Beto seemed to be the likely choice. Beto agreed to confirm that while in High School. He had been but only after the writer promised that the information would come out after the elections. About something that happened in High School.
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Beto...Beto ...Beto....The " Fake " Mexican in Sheep clothing.
 
Well Bernie Sander's numbers must be down, because I was reading today that despite promising to once again keep it civil, that he's hired a reporter whose been writing attack ads on other dem's, to handle his Twitter account. No real surprise there I guess, we've all seen Bernie go scorched earth before.

So in that scorched earth vein... I thought this article from Newweek was interesting. Here's a sample:

Then there’s the fact that Sanders was on unemployment until his mid-30s, and that he stole electricity from a neighbor after failing to pay his bills, and that he co-sponsored a bill to ship Vermont’s nuclear waste to a poor Hispanic community in Texas, where it could be dumped. You can just see the words “environmental racist” on Republican billboards. And if you can’t, I already did. They were in the Republican opposition research book as a proposal on how to frame the nuclear waste issue.

Also on the list: Sanders violated campaign finance laws, criticized Clinton for supporting the 1994 crime bill that he voted for, and he voted against the Amber Alert system. His pitch for universal health care would have been used against him too, since it was tried in his home state of Vermont and collapsed due to excessive costs. Worst of all, the Republicans also had video of Sanders at a 1985 rally thrown by the leftist Sandinista government in Nicaragua where half a million people chanted, “Here, there, everywhere/the Yankee will die,’’ while President Daniel Ortega condemned “state terrorism” by America. Sanders said, on camera, supporting the Sandinistas was “patriotic.”

The Myths Democrats Swallowed That Cost Them the Presidential Election
https://www.newsweek.com/myths-cost-democrats-presidential-election-521044

On Friday, I almost assaulted a fan of my work. I was in the Philadelphia International Airport, and a man who recognized me from one of my appearances on a television news show approached. He thanked me for the investigative reporting I had done about Donald Trump before the election, expressed his outrage that the Republican nominee had won and then told me quite gruffly, “Get back to work.” Something about his arrogance struck me, so I asked, “Who did you vote for?”

He replied, “Well, Stein, but—” I interrupted him and said, “You’re lucky it’s illegal for me to punch you in the face.” Then, after telling him to have sex with himself—but with a much cruder term—I turned and walked away.

A certain kind of liberal makes me sick. These people traffic in false equivalencies, always pretending that both nominees are the same, justifying their apathy and not voting or preening about their narcissistic purity as they cast their ballot for a person they know cannot win. I have no problem with anyone who voted for Trump, because they wanted a Trump presidency. I have an enormous problem with anyone who voted for Trump or Stein or Johnson—or who didn’t vote at all—and who now expresses horror about the outcome of this election. If you don’t like the consequences of your own actions, shut the hell up.

Let me explain this as clearly as I can: In reporting on Trump and his campaign, my job has never been to promote or oppose his election. I believed the media was letting him slide toward Election Day without conducting the normal examination performed on all presidential candidates, while instead wasting time on idiotic spectacles like Trump’s appearance on The Dr. Oz Show. So I dug in, working full-time from July up to election eve, without weekends off, missing family events. In exchange, my family and I received multiple death threats and endured many online attacks. Yet we stayed committed to my work so that the public could have as much information as possible before they cast their ballot on who should the leader of the free world.

That was the only job for everyone else: vote. They wouldn’t have to miss parents’ day at their kids’ schools; they wouldn’t have to skip weekend events; they wouldn’t have to neglect their spouses. All they had to do was recognize that governance is not a game, and that their choices matter. Again, if they supported Trump or truly didn’t care who won after acquiring a real understanding of both candidates’ positions—rather than spouting some self-indulgent, bumper-sticker logic—I have no complaints. If they opposed Trump while refusing to do what they could to keep him out of office—that is, vote for the only other candidate who could win—then they need to go perform sex with themselves. And I mean that in much cruder terms.

The problem this election season has been that liberal Democrats—just like too many Republicans—have been consumed by provably false conspiracy theories. They have trafficked in them on Facebook and Twitter, they have read only websites that confirm what they want to believe, and they have, in the past few months, unknowingly gulped down Russian propaganda with delight. In other words, just like the conservatives they belittle, they have been inside a media bubble that blocked them from reality. So before proceeding, let’s address a few fantasies about this campaign:

1. The Myth of the All-Powerful Democratic National Committee
Easily the most ridiculous argument this year was that the DNC was some sort of monolith that orchestrated the nomination of Hillary Clinton against the will of “the people.” This was immensely popular with the Bernie-or-Busters, those who declared themselves unwilling to vote for Clinton under any circumstances because the Democratic primary had been rigged (and how many of these people laughed when Trump started moaning about election rigging?). The notion that the fix was in was stupid, as were the people who believed it.

Start with this: The DNC, just like the Republican National Committee, is an impotent organization with very little power. It is composed of the chair and vice chair of the Democratic parties of each state, along with over 200 members elected by Democrats. What it does is fundraise, organize the Democratic National Convention and put together the party platform. It handles some organizational activity but tries to hold down its expenditures during the primaries; it has no authority to coordinate spending with any candidate until the party’s nominee is selected. This was why then-President Richard Nixon reacted with incredulity when he heard that some of his people had ordered a break-in at the DNC offices at the Watergate; he couldn’t figure out what information anyone would want out of such a toothless organization.

The first big criticism this year was that the DNC had sponsored “only” six debates between Clinton and Bernie Sanders in some sort of conspiracy to impede the Vermont senator. This rage was built on ignorance: The DNC at first announced it would sponsor six debates in 2016, just as it had in 2008 and 2004. (In 2012, Barack Obama was running for re-election. Plus, while the DNC announced it would sponsor six debates in 2008, only five took place.) Debates cost money, and the more spent on debates, the less available for the nominee in the general election. Plus, there is a reasonable belief among political experts that allowing the nominees to tear each other down over and over undermines their chances in the general election, which is exactly what happened with the Republicans in 2012.
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tenacious said:
Well Bernie Sander's numbers must be down, because I was reading today that despite promising to once again keep it civil, that he's hired a reporter whose been writing attack ads on other dem's, to handle his Twitter account. No real surprise there I guess, we've all seen Bernie go scorched earth before.

So in that scorched earth vein... I thought this article from Newweek was interesting. Here's a sample:

Then there’s the fact that Sanders was on unemployment until his mid-30s, and that he stole electricity from a neighbor after failing to pay his bills, and that he co-sponsored a bill to ship Vermont’s nuclear waste to a poor Hispanic community in Texas, where it could be dumped. You can just see the words “environmental racist” on Republican billboards. And if you can’t, I already did. They were in the Republican opposition research book as a proposal on how to frame the nuclear waste issue.

Also on the list: Sanders violated campaign finance laws, criticized Clinton for supporting the 1994 crime bill that he voted for, and he voted against the Amber Alert system. His pitch for universal health care would have been used against him too, since it was tried in his home state of Vermont and collapsed due to excessive costs. Worst of all, the Republicans also had video of Sanders at a 1985 rally thrown by the leftist Sandinista government in Nicaragua where half a million people chanted, “Here, there, everywhere/the Yankee will die,’’ while President Daniel Ortega condemned “state terrorism” by America. Sanders said, on camera, supporting the Sandinistas was “patriotic.”
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We fucked over Latin America big time, Nicaragua especially so . . . you reap what you sow.
 
Hüsker Dü said:
We fucked over Latin America big time, Nicaragua especially so . . . you reap what you sow.
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Yeah... I agree. You reap what you sow.
And my guess joining in on anti-American cheers down in Latin America doesn't lead to the reaping as many votes for President of the United States as the communist left hopes.
 
Litmus tests for Dems......hmmmm...
Electoral College. It is here for the duration of our Republic.
New Green Deal.... The thought is great but the plan lacks, practicality. What a surprise from the Dems.
Medicare for all. This is where much discussion has to happen. This is where the debates can help build a common call for a pragmatic expansion of Medicare.
Reparations.... Speaking of false flags.

What I think they should be talking about.

Health care for all.... A new American system using private providers and insurance companies as Medicare partners.
Federal debt
Infrastructure rebuilding for the next generation.
How are we going to handle the continued under employment as jobs disappear from automation and industrial revolution
How to build micro-economies, so goods and services are more localized. (part of that whole Happiness thing from the European north).
Tax reform. Real tax reform not give-aways.
The end of gerrymandering forever.
 
Andy Dukes said:
Litmus tests for Dems......hmmmm...
Electoral College. It is here for the duration of our Republic.
New Green Deal.... The thought is great but the plan lacks, practicality. What a surprise from the Dems.
Medicare for all. This is where much discussion has to happen. This is where the debates can help build a common call for a pragmatic expansion of Medicare.
Reparations.... Speaking of false flags.

What I think they should be talking about.

Health care for all.... A new American system using private providers and insurance companies as Medicare partners.
Federal debt
Infrastructure rebuilding for the next generation.
How are we going to handle the continued under employment as jobs disappear from automation and industrial revolution
How to build micro-economies, so goods and services are more localized. (part of that whole Happiness thing from the European north).
Tax reform. Real tax reform not give-aways.
The end of gerrymandering forever.
Click to expand...

Opinions are like assholes, and here are my non-stinky ones --

Electoral college - keep it as a bulwark against massive voter fraud so that no state can invent a million imaginary voters, but eliminate the winner-take-all aspect. Two states (Maine and Nebraska) currently allow their votes to be split, but a true proportional system would reduce some of the 2-party stranglehold on American politics.

New Green Deal - too late. We should be planning on Green recovery.

Health care - a properly administered program would save money overall, but with the loss of health insurance company and health care provider profits.

Reparations - descendants of slaves getting money from descendants of slave-owners? I can see big business for genetic tracing companies from both sides. What would you do for the case of descendants of a slave who was fathered by his owner?

Infrastructure repair and maintenance - yes, yes, yes.

Tax reform - rescind the t giveaway to the wealthy, then start from there.
 
espola said:
Opinions are like assholes, and here are my non-stinky ones --

Electoral college - keep it as a bulwark against massive voter fraud so that no state can invent a million imaginary voters, but eliminate the winner-take-all aspect. Two states (Maine and Nebraska) currently allow their votes to be split, but a true proportional system would reduce some of the 2-party stranglehold on American politics.

New Green Deal - too late. We should be planning on Green recovery.

Health care - a properly administered program would save money overall, but with the loss of health insurance company and health care provider profits.

Reparations - descendants of slaves getting money from descendants of slave-owners? I can see big business for genetic tracing companies from both sides. What would you do for the case of descendants of a slave who was fathered by his owner?

Infrastructure repair and maintenance - yes, yes, yes.

Tax reform - rescind the t giveaway to the wealthy, then start from there.
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The tax situation one is the big pisser. The rhetoric was to simplify and take away incentives but the reality was the biggest boondoggle ever.

We should be on some simpler flatter tax system and all income should be taxable. No write offs. The tax starts at above $30k or so and has one maybe two jumps. One at $300k and one at above $1.3mil.

Medicare already has plans that include insurance companies adding benefits. We would jump all over that like a Double Latte Mocha with sprinkles. Basic plan covers everything the ACA did and you can jump up from there. Get ride of Medicaid, VA healthcare, All public employee healthcare and all of a sudden our local government deficits start shrinking.

One more double. National ID cards for all things and a holiday for our federal election day. It can replace Columbus Day.
 
Andy Dukes said:
The tax situation one is the big pisser. The rhetoric was to simplify and take away incentives but the reality was the biggest boondoggle ever.

We should be on some simpler flatter tax system and all income should be taxable. No write offs. The tax starts at above $30k or so and has one maybe two jumps. One at $300k and one at above $1.3mil.

Medicare already has plans that include insurance companies adding benefits. We would jump all over that like a Double Latte Mocha with sprinkles. Basic plan covers everything the ACA did and you can jump up from there. Get ride of Medicaid, VA healthcare, All public employee healthcare and all of a sudden our local government deficits start shrinking.

One more double. National ID cards for all things and a holiday for our federal election day. It can replace Columbus Day.
Click to expand...

What do you mean by "write-offs"?
 
Andy Dukes said:
Litmus tests for Dems......hmmmm...
Electoral College. It is here for the duration of our Republic.
New Green Deal.... The thought is great but the plan lacks, practicality. What a surprise from the Dems.
Medicare for all. This is where much discussion has to happen. This is where the debates can help build a common call for a pragmatic expansion of Medicare.
Reparations.... Speaking of false flags.

What I think they should be talking about.

Health care for all.... A new American system using private providers and insurance companies as Medicare partners.
Federal debt
Infrastructure rebuilding for the next generation.
How are we going to handle the continued under employment as jobs disappear from automation and industrial revolution
How to build micro-economies, so goods and services are more localized. (part of that whole Happiness thing from the European north).
Tax reform. Real tax reform not give-aways.
The end of gerrymandering forever.
Click to expand...


At this point it seems to be the dems are trying to be a little bit of everything to everybody, and the message needs to be simplified down to three main ideas.

1- Economic and social inequality
This to me is an issue that cuts all the way across America from the rural to the urban, from red states to blue state. The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. I don't buy into stunts like "reparations" where 85% of America is going to cut a check to the %15 of American's who are black, or other immediate and massive "redistribution" plans where Auntie Elizabeth Progressives claim they are going to sit in Washington and fairly take from one group and give to another group. There is always going to be unfairness and inequality of some sort... we just need to make sure whatever the bias is in the system that it favors the middle class.


2- Environmentalism / Infrastructure / Energy
While I don't agree with AOC's politics, I do think she has a very strong instinct for politics. Nor do I think she was off base in making environmentalism the first big issue she tried tackling. As to me this is another area where at all levels of society and income, most people agree they want clean drinking water, clean air, to protect the Endangered Species Act... not to mention avoiding raising sea levels and super hurricanes and fire systems. However, I don't think the dems can address the issue like we're going to take things away from voters to set up a Green New Deal for our children. Dems need to find a way to make green issues feel more like a positive. I.e. we already massively subsidize all sorts of industries in this country from farming, construction, defense, education, energy production, etc.. Dem's need to start demanding these give aways include environmental targets that make life better for all Americans.

3- International Trade and Defense
I don't think I could clearly articulate what the Dems stance on international trade, NATO or even wars in the Middle East is anymore? My last main issue is I think Dem's need to clearly articulate what America stands for, and what they see as our place in the world moving forward.
 
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