WWC 2023

[Slobodan]

Speaking of scouting and Latinos, an article on point.....mentions Downtown Soccer Club, one of the clubs that's locked out of letter league.

Plaschke: U.S. Soccer will keep losing if it keeps ignoring Latina stars who can't pay to play

Nayelli Barahona is a lost soccer star, a potential U.S. Soccer game changer who never got scouted because she played on a Downtown L.A. club team.

www.latimes.com

My bad... didn't see you'd just posted this.

 

[Slobodan]

Speaking of scouting and Latinos, an article on point.....mentions Downtown Soccer Club, one of the clubs that's locked out of letter league.

Plaschke: U.S. Soccer will keep losing if it keeps ignoring Latina stars who can't pay to play

Nayelli Barahona is a lost soccer star, a potential U.S. Soccer game changer who never got scouted because she played on a Downtown L.A. club team.

www.latimes.com

I don't know that it's on point. First, she was unwilling to leave the area to play despite sniffing scholarship offers. Second, she walked on at Long Beach and quit. That's more opportunity than 98% of the "more fortunate" ever get. The problem isn't being female, Latina or poor. If you can't pay the fees, elect to NOT pay the fees or simply don't have a way to get to practice because both of your parents work, you likely aren't getting noticed. I don't care who you are.

"I didn't get to show my potential." Uh, yes you did, at LBSU. You walked on and walked off.

 

[Grace T.]

I don't know that it's on point. First, she was unwilling to leave the area to play despite sniffing scholarship offers. Second, she walked on at Long Beach and quit. That's more opportunity than 98% of the "more fortunate" ever get. The problem isn't being female, Latina or poor. If you can't pay the fees, elect to NOT pay the fees or simply don't have a way to get to practice because both of your parents work, you likely aren't getting noticed. I don't care who you are.

"I didn't get to show my potential." Uh, yes you did, at LBSU. You walked on and walked off.

I found the stuff about the club far more interesting than the stuff about her. Downtown LA is one of the clubs that despite performing for lots of teams is locked out of letter leagues (such as ECNL/MLS Next). There are others locked out, not necessarily Latino (Socal Elite, Santa Monica Surf, Oaks FC, AYSO United). Because of the river and rail line, getting to TFA or LAUFA on the boys side, two other heavily Latino clubs, takes about an hour+. You see the same thing in the Valley where Latino clubs have been dying as Coast withers on the vine. There's also a barrier between Latino clubs and white clubs....white/Asian players find themselves the odd ducks out in a Latino team, some suburban teams limit the number of Latino players for not only economic reasons but also a fear they'll become ghettoized. I was once speaking to a white dad whose son was trying out for my kid's Latino team...he was grossed out the kids were using the "n" word for example. Or how the coaches conduct meetings with the parents: in Spanish or in English.

p.s. forgive me if I'm wrong, but is there a girl's side Latino equivalent to TFA and Laufa in the ECNL?

 

[Slobodan]

I found the stuff about the club far more interesting than the stuff about her. Downtown LA is one of the clubs that despite performing for lots of teams is locked out of letter leagues (such as ECNL/MLS Next). There are others locked out, not necessarily Latino (Socal Elite, Santa Monica Surf, Oaks FC, AYSO United). Because of the river and rail line, getting to TFA or LAUFA on the boys side, two other heavily Latino clubs, takes about an hour+. You see the same thing in the Valley where Latino clubs have been dying as Coast withers on the vine. There's also a barrier between Latino clubs and white clubs....white/Asian players find themselves the odd ducks out in a Latino team, some suburban teams limit the number of Latino players for not only economic reasons but also a fear they'll become ghettoized. I was once speaking to a white dad whose son was trying out for my kid's Latino team...he was grossed out the kids were using the "n" word for example. Or how the coaches conduct meetings with the parents: in Spanish or in English.

p.s. forgive me if I'm wrong, but is there a girl's side Latino equivalent to TFA and Laufa in the ECNL?

Not familiar with those. Is it a facilities issue for some? I know when we played in rough areas, the parents were far worse than the kids. Yeah, I get the racial thing. 3/4 of my high school team were Mexican and they harassed the shit out of me until I reminded them Jorge Campos is the ONLY decent goalkeeper Mexico has ever produced.

I just thought Plashke was pandering. We all know how the system works.

 

[Grace T.]

Not familiar with those. Is it a facilities issue for some? I know when we played in rough areas, the parents were far worse than the kids. Yeah, I get the racial thing. 3/4 of my high school team were Mexican and they harassed the shit out of me until I reminded them Jorge Campos is the ONLY decent goalkeeper Mexico has ever produced.

I just thought Plashke was pandering. We all know how the system works.

Fair.

Don't know what the issue is. Downtown though does have one of the nicest game fields out there. If they don't kick you out of the stairwells, great places to get game footage. It's certainly not merit. Nothing against the Red Bulls club-- fine organization, but certainly did not hold the record when compared to others to get to MLS Next and it certainly did not fill a geographical need given it's in LAUFA's and the Galaxy's shadow (though supposedly the Bulls are supposed to cover SM and LASC, which is in LA Surf's shadow, is supposed to cover the Val, which is why we've been seeing I guess tryout info for those two orgs in those two areas).

Is there a downtown/downey/bell Latina team in the ECNL? Anyone know?

 

[LASTMAN14]

Fair.

Don't know what the issue is. Downtown though does have one of the nicest game fields out there. If they don't kick you out of the stairwells, great places to get game footage. It's certainly not merit. Nothing against the Red Bulls club-- fine organization, but certainly did not hold the record when compared to others to get to MLS Next and it certainly did not fill a geographical need given it's in LAUFA's and the Galaxy's shadow (though supposedly the Bulls are supposed to cover SM and LASC, which is in LA Surf's shadow, is supposed to cover the Val, which is why we've been seeing I guess tryout info for those two orgs in those two areas).

Is there a downtown/downey/bell Latina team in the ECNL? Anyone know?

Enjoyed the article. And much of it very true in regards to club soccer affordability and lack of exposure, as well as development. Like you the details of the situation were more interesting than Nayella Barhona's situation. I know several latina players who have found their way onto ECNL/GA teams and given scholarships by the club to cover fees. If players like Nayella are as good as they are being described in the article they need to contact teams in those leagues and see what is available. Essentially just pointing out that there are opportunities for players like Nayella if they look. And I do understand there are other obstacles that do make this hard for players and their families. Based on what has been described so far there are not teams in downtown LA/Downey/Bell. The closest is Westside Breakers. I would recommend Tudela (located in the LA area) for exposure, coaching and affordability. JT does a great job with such a small club. He also is able to bring his teams to GA Showcases. Overall ECNL has grown in SoCal with the number of teams, but as many have described since I have been on this forum the talent pool is already diluted and adding more clubs has enlarged this issue. There are also requirements from ECNL that asks clubs to meet and Downtown more than likely would not be able to fulfill those requests. Many clubs who are well established did not meet the requirements. Prior to the Girls DA both Beach and SouthBay Force/LAG Southbay were not allowed to join because partly OC ECNL clubs did not want them, but their was also politics from ECNL at the time. Getting back to Nayella trying out at LBST and players that are latina. My DD both played for LAG DA and it was a free program. Everything was provided for. The coaches and the teams offered a spot to any player based on their ability and not their ethnicity. The teams were quite diversified ehtnically. Now when DA was no longer my oldest left for Slammers ECNL and yes these teams were quite polar. Playing for LBST is not easy. I know the HC as he is my youngests coach and he does not pass on talent if its there. I think if Nayella is on par with ECNL players she could easily play at schools like CPP or CSTLA because of her wish to be close to home. I do think USC is a stretch for many reasons.

 

[Carlsbad7]

Well, the good news is we finally know the reason for the U.S. leaving early. It was that damned "rabid capitalism".

How rabid capitalism helped sink USA’s Women’s World Cup campaign

Families often have to pay thousands of dollars to help their kids reach the elite level of youth soccer. No wonder participation is dwindling

www.theguardian.com

Annoying because on every team my kid has played on there's 1-2 "scholarship" players that the club let's play for free or at a reduced cost.

I've even seen situations where scholorship players play poor but turn around and fund the coach with privates.

If anything the clubs I've seen are very accommodating.

Where you might not see all the free rides given out is on the top teams where coaches can bring on paying players + win. My suspicion is that this is the free ride players gripe.

 

[Carlsbad7]

Annoying because on every team my kid has played on there's 1-2 "scholarship" players that the club let's play for free or at a reduced cost.

I've even seen situations where scholorship players play poor but turn around and fund the coach with privates.

If anything the clubs I've seen are very accommodating.

Where you might not see all the free rides given out is on the top teams where coaches can bring on paying players + win. My suspicion is that this is the free ride players gripe.

Like saying you're starving + someone hands you a cheeseburger + telling them you only eat steak.

It's not a matter of being able to play for free. They want to play a specific type of soccer for free.

 

[Grace T.]

Annoying because on every team my kid has played on there's 1-2 "scholarship" players that the club let's play for free or at a reduced cost.

I've even seen situations where scholorship players play poor but turn around and fund the coach with privates.

If anything the clubs I've seen are very accommodating.

Where you might not see all the free rides given out is on the top teams where coaches can bring on paying players + win. My suspicion is that this is the free ride players gripe.

"top teams where coaches can bring on paying players + win". That's the issue right there though. The boys at the older at least have the MLS Academies to prevent that barrier from happening and to aggregate the top talent. The top girl teams within the ECNL do not.

Also interesting youtube I came across on my earlier point about how the goalkeeper affects everything else. If the coach does not understand the goalkeeper role, he or she simply does not understand the game. What the GK does even if the GK sits there on the line and gives the defender the ball to boot absolutely impacts how the rest of the team can play.

 

[Carlsbad7]

"top teams where coaches can bring on paying players + win". That's the issue right there though. The boys at the older at least have the MLS Academies to prevent that barrier from happening and to aggregate the top talent. The top girl teams within the ECNL do not.

Also interesting youtube I came across on my earlier point about how the goalkeeper affects everything else. If the coach does not understand the goalkeeper role, he or she simply does not understand the game. What the GK does even if the GK sits there on the line and gives the defender the ball to boot absolutely impacts how the rest of the team can play.

My point is that poor kids aren't being excluded from playing soccer.

Are poor kids with equivalent talent as paying players being excluded in high level soccer? Probabaly

Are poor kids with extreme natural talent more so than paying players being excluded? No

The problem with any sport at a high level is that it's expensive.

I guess I dislike when I hear that poor kids are being excluded from playing sports. At least in Socal this is not the case. There's plenty of options.

If you want to talk about high level competitive soccer that's a different thing.

 

[Carlsbad7]

Here's another thing to consider...

If every high level team has 1-2 scholorship players + there's 18ish high level teams in an area is that the equivalent of 1 free ride academy team?

 

[Carlsbad7]

"top teams where coaches can bring on paying players + win". That's the issue right there though. The boys at the older at least have the MLS Academies to prevent that barrier from happening and to aggregate the top talent. The top girl teams within the ECNL do not.

Also interesting youtube I came across on my earlier point about how the goalkeeper affects everything else. If the coach does not understand the goalkeeper role, he or she simply does not understand the game. What the GK does even if the GK sits there on the line and gives the defender the ball to boot absolutely impacts how the rest of the team can play.

BTW what Onana is doing in futsal terms is called a Flying Goalie.

Basically the goalie rolls out to themself + switches from a defensive player to an offensive player. This creates an overload situation + if the team knows how to space out someone will become open.

The flying goalie concept + being encouraged to be aggressive (because a single goal doesnt define a game) instead of conservative is why goalies generally like playing futsal.

 

[Grace T.]

My point is that poor kids aren't being excluded from playing soccer.

Are poor kids with equivalent talent as paying players being excluded in high level soccer? Probabaly

Are poor kids with extreme natural talent more so than paying players being excluded? No

The problem with any sport at a high level is that it's expensive.

I guess I dislike when I hear that poor kids are being excluded from playing sports. At least in Socal this is not the case. There's plenty of options.

If you want to talk about high level competitive soccer that's a different thing.

Agree with your first and second. Disagree with your third point because scouting only takes place on the high level letter leagues and as others have discussed talent selection is not such so the best soccer players are always selected.

 

[Zoro]

The convo is about the WNT, the elite of the elite. College is a crap development ground for those players. If you are not in that bracket, then college is the way to go, i.e. for the 99.99% of players, given their earning potential as a pro currently.

I think if you are in that bracket for females it [college] is the way to go. Females peak far later than men. Both physically and skills wise they are going to be much better mid 20s than late teens. Any player that is NT level that is going to be ruined by a few years of college is not really at that level.

Guys - totally different and they are giving up a lot of money if they delay.

 

[pewpew]

AUS beats FRA in KFTM shootout. Another drawn-out shootout that could've gone either way. Hard to say if FRA subbing the GK with about a minute or two left in OT changed anything for them. Both GKs made saves. Both teams missed shots.

 

[kickingandscreaming]

Oh wait, my bad... Diego Plaschke figured it out. The problem isn't poor kids... it's poor Latinas.

Plaschke: U.S. Soccer will keep losing if it keeps ignoring Latina stars who can't pay to play

Nayelli Barahona is a lost soccer star, a potential U.S. Soccer game changer who never got scouted because she played on a Downtown L.A. club team.

www.latimes.com

This is nothing more than a parasitic cause looking for a prominent host. Again, speaking specifically about elite, potentially national team players - which the headline indicates. I have little doubt there are many capable to very good ECNL level players whose families could use a scholarship but don't get one because the teams have enough capable to very good players who pay.

 

[kickingandscreaming]

Speaking of scouting and Latinos, an article on point.....mentions Downtown Soccer Club, one of the clubs that's locked out of letter league.

Plaschke: U.S. Soccer will keep losing if it keeps ignoring Latina stars who can't pay to play

Nayelli Barahona is a lost soccer star, a potential U.S. Soccer game changer who never got scouted because she played on a Downtown L.A. club team.

www.latimes.com

Oof. This young lady's story doesn't support the premise of the article. That's not an indictment on Nayelli. However, nothing in this article indicates she was a National Team level player. She's old enough to play professionally, and she's not. Why isn't she playing at Angel City FC? She had offers to play in college elsewhere but didn't want to leave her community. You have to have that fire to play. Also, many here, myself included, regularly discuss our poor training in the US. This article argues that she didn't make it because she didn't get that specific training. Well, the kindest interpretation of this article is that it implies that. It can't possibly be arguing that she is good enough for the National Team now.

One of the quotes that struck me, “In this country it’s all connections and money,” - Has this guy ever seen an NBA game?

I have said somewhere on this board that our biggest potential for growth in soccer is the Hispanic population which has a football culture - for boys and men. As the culture changes to become more inclusive for girls, we will see greater representation on the National Team. More importantly, larger numbers of these young ladies will get an opportunity to gain confidence and know the joy of playing a sport.

 

[tjinaz]

This is nothing more than a parasitic cause looking for a prominent host. Again, speaking specifically about elite, potentially national team players - which the headline indicates. I have little doubt there are many capable to very good ECNL level players whose families could use a scholarship but don't get one because the teams have enough capable to very good players who pay.

Agreed. No club is going to give a scholarship when there are 5 blonde ponytails heading to the field in mom's tesla that are just as good. The player has to be that much better to get the scholarship. In Phx the latinos are primarily on the west side. In recent years the big clubs have been setting up infrastructure and establishing teams out there so they can scout that talent. Funny thing is the long established latino teams don't like it. They see these big Anglo clubs coming in trying to steal their players and resist it. Tell them that they are the path and to stay away. Especially on the boys side. One large club deliberately put their Girls ECRL team on the west side in an attempt to pull the high end latina talent. Not sure how successful it has been but starting at about U15 the team has less and less latinos and more white girls driving in from the north. It may eventually work out but not really seeing the results right now.

 

[Grace T.]

Oof. This young lady's story doesn't support the premise of the article. That's not an indictment on Nayelli. However, nothing in this article indicates she was a National Team level player. She's old enough to play professionally, and she's not. Why isn't she playing at Angel City FC? She had offers to play in college elsewhere but didn't want to leave her community. You have to have that fire to play. Also, many here, myself included, regularly discuss our poor training in the US. This article argues that she didn't make it because she didn't get that specific training. Well, the kindest interpretation of this article is that it implies that. It can't possibly be arguing that she is good enough for the National Team now.

One of the quotes that struck me, “In this country it’s all connections and money,” - Has this guy ever seen an NBA game?

I have said somewhere on this board that our biggest potential for growth in soccer is the Hispanic population which has a football culture - for boys and men. As the culture changes to become more inclusive for girls, we will see greater representation on the National Team. More importantly, larger numbers of these young ladies will get an opportunity to gain confidence and know the joy of playing a sport.

I generally agree with the critique. The most deadon point raises in the article is the lack of an ecnl level team (no one here has been so far able to name one) for the girls in the downtown-downey-bell triangle. That alone is a major hole. The boys have two largely Latino based orgs in laufa and tfa on the boys side, but have a similar void in the val (lasc is a suburban club that at least until now has drawn from Pasadena-Granada hills; there’s la surf with a bigger footprint but same area; and real SoCal/lafc ecnl). For the reasons I stated, financial cultural and racial, there’s not a lot of cross over between Latino and suburban teams with some exceptions.

for the reasons I previously stated I also think placing the hopes on our Latino community is poor. There’s not a lot of cultural crossover (lafc notwithstanding…there were as many Monterrey supporters last night than lafc in our hometown) and soccer iq in the community is poor compared to Europe. I was a big Latinos will build it fan. I’ve revised my opinion recently…was wrong about it.

 

[Grace T.]

Agreed. No club is going to give a scholarship when there are 5 blonde ponytails heading to the field in mom's tesla that are just as good. The player has to be that much better to get the scholarship. In Phx the latinos are primarily on the west side. In recent years the big clubs have been setting up infrastructure and establishing teams out there so they can scout that talent. Funny thing is the long established latino teams don't like it. They see these big Anglo clubs coming in trying to steal their players and resist it. Tell them that they are the path and to stay away. Especially on the boys side. One large club deliberately put their Girls ECRL team on the west side in an attempt to pull the high end latina talent. Not sure how successful it has been but starting at about U15 the team has less and less latinos and more white girls driving in from the north. It may eventually work out but not really seeing the results right now.

If the Latino clubs see what’s happened in our val I don’t blame them. Tfa and laufa can survive because the community is almost exclusively Latino.

the greatest problem is the early years where talent is still developing. Other than a fast runner with a big leg, there aren’t very many clearly superior players…the early athleticism not soccer skills are the key difference

 

[watfly]

AUS beats FRA in KFTM shootout. Another drawn-out shootout that could've gone either way. Hard to say if FRA subbing the GK with about a minute or two left in OT changed anything for them. Both GKs made saves. Both teams missed shots.

20 kicks and not one over the crossbar. Just sayin. Most of the balls saved where off the ground. Only one carpet ball saved barely with a fingertip by Aussie keeper (although one or two off the post). Upper V is toughest for keeper to save, but also the hardest for kicker to make and now you can miss over in addition to left and right. Soccer IQ fail for the US.