WWC 2023

[Grace T.]

Annoying because on every team my kid has played on there's 1-2 "scholarship" players that the club let's play for free or at a reduced cost.

I've even seen situations where scholorship players play poor but turn around and fund the coach with privates.

If anything the clubs I've seen are very accommodating.

Where you might not see all the free rides given out is on the top teams where coaches can bring on paying players + win. My suspicion is that this is the free ride players gripe.

"top teams where coaches can bring on paying players + win". That's the issue right there though. The boys at the older at least have the MLS Academies to prevent that barrier from happening and to aggregate the top talent. The top girl teams within the ECNL do not.

Also interesting youtube I came across on my earlier point about how the goalkeeper affects everything else. If the coach does not understand the goalkeeper role, he or she simply does not understand the game. What the GK does even if the GK sits there on the line and gives the defender the ball to boot absolutely impacts how the rest of the team can play.

 

[Carlsbad7]

"top teams where coaches can bring on paying players + win". That's the issue right there though. The boys at the older at least have the MLS Academies to prevent that barrier from happening and to aggregate the top talent. The top girl teams within the ECNL do not.

Also interesting youtube I came across on my earlier point about how the goalkeeper affects everything else. If the coach does not understand the goalkeeper role, he or she simply does not understand the game. What the GK does even if the GK sits there on the line and gives the defender the ball to boot absolutely impacts how the rest of the team can play.

My point is that poor kids aren't being excluded from playing soccer.

Are poor kids with equivalent talent as paying players being excluded in high level soccer? Probabaly

Are poor kids with extreme natural talent more so than paying players being excluded? No

The problem with any sport at a high level is that it's expensive.

I guess I dislike when I hear that poor kids are being excluded from playing sports. At least in Socal this is not the case. There's plenty of options.

If you want to talk about high level competitive soccer that's a different thing.

 

[Carlsbad7]

Here's another thing to consider...

If every high level team has 1-2 scholorship players + there's 18ish high level teams in an area is that the equivalent of 1 free ride academy team?

 

[Carlsbad7]

"top teams where coaches can bring on paying players + win". That's the issue right there though. The boys at the older at least have the MLS Academies to prevent that barrier from happening and to aggregate the top talent. The top girl teams within the ECNL do not.

Also interesting youtube I came across on my earlier point about how the goalkeeper affects everything else. If the coach does not understand the goalkeeper role, he or she simply does not understand the game. What the GK does even if the GK sits there on the line and gives the defender the ball to boot absolutely impacts how the rest of the team can play.

BTW what Onana is doing in futsal terms is called a Flying Goalie.

Basically the goalie rolls out to themself + switches from a defensive player to an offensive player. This creates an overload situation + if the team knows how to space out someone will become open.

The flying goalie concept + being encouraged to be aggressive (because a single goal doesnt define a game) instead of conservative is why goalies generally like playing futsal.

 

[Grace T.]

My point is that poor kids aren't being excluded from playing soccer.

Are poor kids with equivalent talent as paying players being excluded in high level soccer? Probabaly

Are poor kids with extreme natural talent more so than paying players being excluded? No

The problem with any sport at a high level is that it's expensive.

I guess I dislike when I hear that poor kids are being excluded from playing sports. At least in Socal this is not the case. There's plenty of options.

If you want to talk about high level competitive soccer that's a different thing.

Agree with your first and second. Disagree with your third point because scouting only takes place on the high level letter leagues and as others have discussed talent selection is not such so the best soccer players are always selected.

 

[Zoro]

The convo is about the WNT, the elite of the elite. College is a crap development ground for those players. If you are not in that bracket, then college is the way to go, i.e. for the 99.99% of players, given their earning potential as a pro currently.

I think if you are in that bracket for females it [college] is the way to go. Females peak far later than men. Both physically and skills wise they are going to be much better mid 20s than late teens. Any player that is NT level that is going to be ruined by a few years of college is not really at that level.

Guys - totally different and they are giving up a lot of money if they delay.

 

[pewpew]

AUS beats FRA in KFTM shootout. Another drawn-out shootout that could've gone either way. Hard to say if FRA subbing the GK with about a minute or two left in OT changed anything for them. Both GKs made saves. Both teams missed shots.

 

[kickingandscreaming]

Oh wait, my bad... Diego Plaschke figured it out. The problem isn't poor kids... it's poor Latinas.

Plaschke: U.S. Soccer will keep losing if it keeps ignoring Latina stars who can't pay to play

Nayelli Barahona is a lost soccer star, a potential U.S. Soccer game changer who never got scouted because she played on a Downtown L.A. club team.

www.latimes.com

This is nothing more than a parasitic cause looking for a prominent host. Again, speaking specifically about elite, potentially national team players - which the headline indicates. I have little doubt there are many capable to very good ECNL level players whose families could use a scholarship but don't get one because the teams have enough capable to very good players who pay.

 

[kickingandscreaming]

Speaking of scouting and Latinos, an article on point.....mentions Downtown Soccer Club, one of the clubs that's locked out of letter league.

Plaschke: U.S. Soccer will keep losing if it keeps ignoring Latina stars who can't pay to play

Nayelli Barahona is a lost soccer star, a potential U.S. Soccer game changer who never got scouted because she played on a Downtown L.A. club team.

www.latimes.com

Oof. This young lady's story doesn't support the premise of the article. That's not an indictment on Nayelli. However, nothing in this article indicates she was a National Team level player. She's old enough to play professionally, and she's not. Why isn't she playing at Angel City FC? She had offers to play in college elsewhere but didn't want to leave her community. You have to have that fire to play. Also, many here, myself included, regularly discuss our poor training in the US. This article argues that she didn't make it because she didn't get that specific training. Well, the kindest interpretation of this article is that it implies that. It can't possibly be arguing that she is good enough for the National Team now.

One of the quotes that struck me, “In this country it’s all connections and money,” - Has this guy ever seen an NBA game?

I have said somewhere on this board that our biggest potential for growth in soccer is the Hispanic population which has a football culture - for boys and men. As the culture changes to become more inclusive for girls, we will see greater representation on the National Team. More importantly, larger numbers of these young ladies will get an opportunity to gain confidence and know the joy of playing a sport.

 

[tjinaz]

This is nothing more than a parasitic cause looking for a prominent host. Again, speaking specifically about elite, potentially national team players - which the headline indicates. I have little doubt there are many capable to very good ECNL level players whose families could use a scholarship but don't get one because the teams have enough capable to very good players who pay.

Agreed. No club is going to give a scholarship when there are 5 blonde ponytails heading to the field in mom's tesla that are just as good. The player has to be that much better to get the scholarship. In Phx the latinos are primarily on the west side. In recent years the big clubs have been setting up infrastructure and establishing teams out there so they can scout that talent. Funny thing is the long established latino teams don't like it. They see these big Anglo clubs coming in trying to steal their players and resist it. Tell them that they are the path and to stay away. Especially on the boys side. One large club deliberately put their Girls ECRL team on the west side in an attempt to pull the high end latina talent. Not sure how successful it has been but starting at about U15 the team has less and less latinos and more white girls driving in from the north. It may eventually work out but not really seeing the results right now.

 

[Grace T.]

Oof. This young lady's story doesn't support the premise of the article. That's not an indictment on Nayelli. However, nothing in this article indicates she was a National Team level player. She's old enough to play professionally, and she's not. Why isn't she playing at Angel City FC? She had offers to play in college elsewhere but didn't want to leave her community. You have to have that fire to play. Also, many here, myself included, regularly discuss our poor training in the US. This article argues that she didn't make it because she didn't get that specific training. Well, the kindest interpretation of this article is that it implies that. It can't possibly be arguing that she is good enough for the National Team now.

One of the quotes that struck me, “In this country it’s all connections and money,” - Has this guy ever seen an NBA game?

I have said somewhere on this board that our biggest potential for growth in soccer is the Hispanic population which has a football culture - for boys and men. As the culture changes to become more inclusive for girls, we will see greater representation on the National Team. More importantly, larger numbers of these young ladies will get an opportunity to gain confidence and know the joy of playing a sport.

I generally agree with the critique. The most deadon point raises in the article is the lack of an ecnl level team (no one here has been so far able to name one) for the girls in the downtown-downey-bell triangle. That alone is a major hole. The boys have two largely Latino based orgs in laufa and tfa on the boys side, but have a similar void in the val (lasc is a suburban club that at least until now has drawn from Pasadena-Granada hills; there’s la surf with a bigger footprint but same area; and real SoCal/lafc ecnl). For the reasons I stated, financial cultural and racial, there’s not a lot of cross over between Latino and suburban teams with some exceptions.

for the reasons I previously stated I also think placing the hopes on our Latino community is poor. There’s not a lot of cultural crossover (lafc notwithstanding…there were as many Monterrey supporters last night than lafc in our hometown) and soccer iq in the community is poor compared to Europe. I was a big Latinos will build it fan. I’ve revised my opinion recently…was wrong about it.

 

[Grace T.]

Agreed. No club is going to give a scholarship when there are 5 blonde ponytails heading to the field in mom's tesla that are just as good. The player has to be that much better to get the scholarship. In Phx the latinos are primarily on the west side. In recent years the big clubs have been setting up infrastructure and establishing teams out there so they can scout that talent. Funny thing is the long established latino teams don't like it. They see these big Anglo clubs coming in trying to steal their players and resist it. Tell them that they are the path and to stay away. Especially on the boys side. One large club deliberately put their Girls ECRL team on the west side in an attempt to pull the high end latina talent. Not sure how successful it has been but starting at about U15 the team has less and less latinos and more white girls driving in from the north. It may eventually work out but not really seeing the results right now.

If the Latino clubs see what’s happened in our val I don’t blame them. Tfa and laufa can survive because the community is almost exclusively Latino.

the greatest problem is the early years where talent is still developing. Other than a fast runner with a big leg, there aren’t very many clearly superior players…the early athleticism not soccer skills are the key difference

 

[watfly]

AUS beats FRA in KFTM shootout. Another drawn-out shootout that could've gone either way. Hard to say if FRA subbing the GK with about a minute or two left in OT changed anything for them. Both GKs made saves. Both teams missed shots.

20 kicks and not one over the crossbar. Just sayin. Most of the balls saved where off the ground. Only one carpet ball saved barely with a fingertip by Aussie keeper (although one or two off the post). Upper V is toughest for keeper to save, but also the hardest for kicker to make and now you can miss over in addition to left and right. Soccer IQ fail for the US.

 

[kickingandscreaming]

I generally agree with the critique. The most deadon point raises in the article is the lack of an ecnl level team (no one here has been so far able to name one) for the girls in the downtown-downey-bell triangle. That alone is a major hole. The boys have two largely Latino based orgs in laufa and tfa on the boys side, but have a similar void in the val (lasc is a suburban club that at least until now has drawn from Pasadena-Granada hills; there’s la surf with a bigger footprint but same area; and real SoCal/lafc ecnl). For the reasons I stated, financial cultural and racial, there’s not a lot of cross over between Latino and suburban teams with some exceptions.

for the reasons I previously stated I also think placing the hopes on our Latino community is poor. There’s not a lot of cultural crossover (lafc notwithstanding…there were as many Monterrey supporters last night than lafc in our hometown) and soccer iq in the community is poor compared to Europe. I was a big Latinos will build it fan. I’ve revised my opinion recently…was wrong about it.

I definitely like the idea of ECNL placing teams in under-represented areas. Also, thank you for taking the time to provide additional context.

 

[tjinaz]

I definitely like the idea of ECNL placing teams in under-represented areas. Also, thank you for taking the time to provide additional context.

How is that going to work? ECNL is expensive. Just because you put a team there doesn't mean it will be successful. ECNL only works where the demographic has the money to pay for it. How are they going to pay for travel, flying all over for events and showcases? ECNL is the pinnacle of the pay to play system adding a team to a poor neighborhood is not a solution unless someone subsidizes all the expenses. The only solution for that is something like DA where US Soccer pays the bills.

 

[Zeke]

How is that going to work? ECNL is expensive. Just because you put a team there doesn't mean it will be successful. ECNL only works where the demographic has the money to pay for it. How are they going to pay for travel, flying all over for events and showcases? ECNL is the pinnacle of the pay to play system adding a team to a poor neighborhood is not a solution unless someone subsidizes all the expenses. The only solution for that is something like DA where US Soccer pays the bills.

We could start by putting a few non-ECNL teams on the schedule. Not whole clubs. Just invite the top two non-ECNL teams in each age group, and offer them a chance to play in the ECNL league for one season. Then do the same thing next year.

It probably makes more sense for compact regions like Norcal. Our whole conference is about 2-3 hours across. Travel expenses for league games are relatively small.

 

[Grace T.]

How is that going to work? ECNL is expensive. Just because you put a team there doesn't mean it will be successful. ECNL only works where the demographic has the money to pay for it. How are they going to pay for travel, flying all over for events and showcases? ECNL is the pinnacle of the pay to play system adding a team to a poor neighborhood is not a solution unless someone subsidizes all the expenses. The only solution for that is something like DA where US Soccer pays the bills.

Laufa and tfa make it work on the boys end but I’ve heard mls next is more financially forgiving than ecnl.

one point that isn’t touched upon in the article is the market. And that’s entirely the fault of the Mexican American community. It’s very chauvinistic when it comes to sports and for a long time it was not considered lady like for a girl to play sports. When I was coaching can’t tell you how many times I heard “my abuelita wouldn’t approve”. It’s changing but very slowly. Latino league teams can still get desperate to fill their girl quotas. Academies can cut through that by pursuading parents this is an opportunity and it doesn’t cost as much as ecnl.

 

[kickingandscreaming]

How is that going to work? ECNL is expensive. Just because you put a team there doesn't mean it will be successful. ECNL only works where the demographic has the money to pay for it. How are they going to pay for travel, flying all over for events and showcases? ECNL is the pinnacle of the pay to play system adding a team to a poor neighborhood is not a solution unless someone subsidizes all the expenses. The only solution for that is something like DA where US Soccer pays the bills.

Agreed. I don't see how this works without an outside source of money. Considering what our government spends money on, an investment in the youth of an underserved community will top many current expenditures. In a country where the professional league is thriving, they could help with costs. I don't think we are there yet.

The travel requirement can be waived. Put a team in LA, and they will have plenty of "local" games to play. They don't even have to be part of ECNL, IF they can get agreement to be able to play ECNL teams and attend local ECNL events where college coaches attend. It would be wise to work in partnership with existing clubs, if possible. I feel like DA would have been much wiser to attempt this instead of directly competing with ECNL for ALL the girls instead of focusing on the highest level.

Nationwide, I don't believe you will need many to fill the gaps. I'm guessing that in most places, predominantly Hispanic neighborhoods are not "city" sized as the area in LA. It sounds like Phoenix has "enough" coverage. I'd say that's true for most of the Bay Area, except maybe Oakland.

 

[Keeperkat]

While the focus in articles and this thread has been on barriers to entry because of club fees, how many of the elite players were actually developed by the club coaches and how many were developed through private training $$$$$ throughout the years only to get on a top team with minimal challenging games to maximize development? The number of challenging games for the top ECNL teams looks a whole lot like the number of challenging games the USWNT played in the last couple of years. I have likened many games played to shooting fish in a barrel. How do you develop to your maximum if you are not challenged on a regular basis? Look at the Thompson girls. In order to keep developing, they played on boys teams. That in and of itself should speak loudly.

We have a US club structure that caters to 16% of the population (Upper middle class and Upper class). Are we missing creating a large pool of great players because we do not have any sort of system that develops the middle or lower class to even be identified for scholarship on elite teams?

With the declining # of soccer players in the US and the current trend of 10% increase in club fees with larger roster sizes thus increasing the divide between the haves and have nots, what happens now?

 

[watfly]

I'm still fuzzy on the math as to how some of you imply that we don't (and won't) have good enough players on our 23 women roster to compete internationally, so we need to scour the poor neighborhoods to change that, when we have more women playing soccer in the US by a longshot over any other country and its the most popular girl's sport in our country. Sure we may not get every potentially great soccer player, but we can't find 23 others when we have by far the largest pool to choose from? If player identification is a problem, how does having a larger pool improve that? Is it because you believe we could have 23 Messi's instead of just 23 DeBruyne's. I guess its possible that we miss out on that once in the lifetime talent that completely changes the entire team, although even Messi didn't have that impact on Argentina....except arguably once.

I'm all for improving opportunities for underprivileged talent, but I'm not convinced that that would change the overall quality and results of our national team.