Why keep arguing, NO FALL SOCCER!

happy9 said:
Not exactly, and self defense is a complex and nuanced thing to behold. And no, I'm not lawyer but I know a thing or two about the use of pew pews. I don't think comparable force is a thing, it's about the threat being presented. If you come into my house with a knife and lunge at me, I don't have to lunge back at you with a knife. It is my right to defend myself with whatever is at my disposal.

To be fair If the threat involves deadly force, the person defending themselves can use deadly force to counteract the threat. If, however, the threat involves only minor force and the person claiming self-defense uses force that could cause grievous bodily harm or death, the claim of self-defense will fail. So, being chased by a guy who has a brick or a molotov cocktail can be interpreted as deadly force. Being hit in the head by a skate board and kicked in the head can be considered deadly force. You don't need to go and find a skateboard to defend yourself.

This is going to be a politically charged trial. He should not have been there in the first place, but he was. Doesn't mean he doesn't have the right to defend himself. I guess if they would have taken away his black rifle and stomped him to death, you would be fine. He could have killed more people if he wanted to, but he didn't. Just about every time he point his rifle and pulled the trigger, he hit hit a target, then he stopped.

Your example above breaks down if the "smart" vigilante is unable to defuse a situation.

The whole thing is shitty. Unless he gets a settlement as a result of adult idiots in government trashing his name, he is in for an uphill fight for the rest of his life. Again, my opinion is he shouldn't have been there. Plenty of video and eyewitness accounts that support self defense. The prosecution will try to prove otherwise. We will see what happens.
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Ok dumbass, everything you just described regarding self defense is “comparable” force. I tried to dumb it down for Jose so he could understand. So yeah, non-lethal v. non-lethal is ok and lethal v. lethal is ok.

And of course you’re the type of tough guy who now claims, like a little pussy, that a skateboard and a kick are lethal weapons/force. Like I said before, everybody hates Johny Cochran until they need Johny Cochran. Everybody is tough on crime until their little Johnny gets popped for a crime.

He came looking for trouble, he found it, and now he has to face the consequences. Isn’t that what you law and order guys say all the time. I knew you guys were pussies, defending a lawless piece of shit like this.

Anyways, he’s got huge issues in the 1st killing with self defense because there’s been no allegation of any use of a deadly force against him. And even if there is, he’s got an uphill battle because he certainly came to Kenosha with a certain intent.

In the 2nd killing he’s going to have issues because you cannot be the initial aggressor in a self defense defense. Thus, prosecutors are going to say he waived self defense in the 2nd killing because of the 1st killing AND the fact that you can effectuate a legal citizens arrest (i.e. you can tackle the motherf’r and hold him till police get there) when a person has committed a Felony (even if not in your presence). So the guys who attempted to stop him had a legal right to do so AND you can’t then resist arrest and claim self defense.
 
Not_that_Serious said:
Lol you seem to be impressed by your own google skills and people’s titles. We talk to big ball swanging “top” “chief” number dudes at least 3x a week. They even are on tv on cable networks. Guess what? No one cares. No one is impressed with how how many charts or colors you have in the charts - because no one is copying stuff to forums in attempt to prove a point. At this point, people are looking for solutions and ways to implement solutions. Leadership is trying to maintain their employees ability to pay rent and fees their families - and not become American Airlines or like other businesses. So people can see the trend amongst something we might use frequently: in a one month period from June-July, over 15,000 businesses permanently closed on Yelp. Of the businesses that have closed since March 55% will NEVER reopen over 70,000. I’m pretty sure that will negate the 120 people your friend just hired. I’ll await the next chart or link showing it’s allll good
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So no intelligent response for debate huh? Enough said.
 
happy9 said:
Not exactly, and self defense is a complex and nuanced thing to behold. And no, I'm not lawyer but I know a thing or two about the use of pew pews. I don't think comparable force is a thing, it's about the threat being presented. If you come into my house with a knife and lunge at me, I don't have to lunge back at you with a knife. It is my right to defend myself with whatever is at my disposal.

To be fair If the threat involves deadly force, the person defending themselves can use deadly force to counteract the threat. If, however, the threat involves only minor force and the person claiming self-defense uses force that could cause grievous bodily harm or death, the claim of self-defense will fail. So, being chased by a guy who has a brick or a molotov cocktail can be interpreted as deadly force. Being hit in the head by a skate board and kicked in the head can be considered deadly force. You don't need to go and find a skateboard to defend yourself.

This is going to be a politically charged trial. He should not have been there in the first place, but he was. Doesn't mean he doesn't have the right to defend himself. I guess if they would have taken away his black rifle and stomped him to death, you would be fine. He could have killed more people if he wanted to, but he didn't. Just about every time he point his rifle and pulled the trigger, he hit hit a target, then he stopped.

Your example above breaks down if the "smart" vigilante is unable to defuse a situation.

The whole thing is shitty. Unless he gets a settlement as a result of adult idiots in government trashing his name, he is in for an uphill fight for the rest of his life. Again, my opinion is he shouldn't have been there. Plenty of video and eyewitness accounts that support self defense. The prosecution will try to prove otherwise. We will see what happens.
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Robbers today have rights bro. For example, you break into me house with a knife and I turn the light on you with a rifle, the thief can call a timeout and tell the homeowner to get his knife to fight fair. This also includes gas station store owners and all adult disputes. The one with the biggest weapon is now cheating and not fighting fair.........
 
OC Register Headline, Sept 2, 2020

Newsom: California making ‘a lot of progress’ toward reopening theme parks

As my goat and I drive to the Cactus Cup Sept 18th at 2am, I'm sure some from AZ WHO really miss Mickey and Goofy, we be driving West on the 10 frwy so they can enjoy theme park. Eat all the cotton candy and sugar you can give a kid. My wife had annual passes for my son and her back in the day. One day, when the little boo boo bear was 4, he refused to leave. My wife calls and says he wont leave and is running away so he can stay at the greatest place on earth. He threw a fit of fits. My wife, with the help of some nice people, finally contained my boy. I talked to him on the phone and he was not having it. He didnt want leave, so I understand how it's essential to open up the Magic Kingdom. I just ask to see if we have "a lot of progress" for youth sports at the Great Park in Irvine. The adults are playing, the kids are not. That is stupid!!!!!!
 
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Justafan said:
He came looking for trouble, he found it, and now he has to face the consequences. Isn’t that what you law and order guys say all the time. I knew you guys were pussies, defending a lawless piece of shit like this.

In the 2nd killing he’s going to have issues because you cannot be the initial aggressor in a self defense defense. Thus, prosecutors are going to say he waived self defense in the 2nd killing because of the 1st killing AND the fact that you can effectuate a legal citizens arrest (i.e. you can tackle the motherf’r and hold him till police get there) when a person has committed a Felony (even if not in your presence). So the guys who attempted to stop him had a legal right to do so AND you can’t then resist arrest and claim self defense.
Click to expand...

All this back and forth has my head on a swivel. For those of us who are confused, and so we all understand you correctly, he can't claim self defense - but he can claim he is a victim?
 
Eagle33 said:
I got to admit, I'm really impressed that this thread is not shutdown yet or moved to off topic.
It's very sad that bunch of good soccer moms and dads talk about everything but soccer on this forum :confused:
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Were going to Cactus Cup in two weeks. My wife can;t come so it will be another road trip with my goat. This time she can drive so I can sleep. She is already a better driver then my wife so I feel safe and I can sleep on da 10 on the way home. Fall ball is kicking in, just not in SoCal. You get what you vote for and we ALL can see now what the truth is. Patients Eagle.
 
Justafan said:
Let’s see, he killed 2 people right? In the video with the flying kick and skateboarder, he kills 1 and wounds another. He puts his hands in the air after the skateboarder shooting and wants to turn himself in to police. So there’s no killing after that.

Makes sense since he is being chased and people are yelling “that’s the shooter” prior to the skateboarder shooting. The only other shooting he’s involved in is the gas station shooting. Thus, the gas station shooting occurred BEFORE the skateboarder shooting.
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I'll have the conversation with you... OFF TOPIC under "Riots". Already posted and waiting for your thoughts.
 
Justafan said:
Ok dumbass, everything you just described regarding self defense is “comparable” force. I tried to dumb it down for Jose so he could understand. So yeah, non-lethal v. non-lethal is ok and lethal v. lethal is ok.

And of course you’re the type of tough guy who now claims, like a little pussy, that a skateboard and a kick are lethal weapons/force. Like I said before, everybody hates Johny Cochran until they need Johny Cochran. Everybody is tough on crime until their little Johnny gets popped for a crime.

He came looking for trouble, he found it, and now he has to face the consequences. Isn’t that what you law and order guys say all the time. I knew you guys were pussies, defending a lawless piece of shit like this.

Anyways, he’s got huge issues in the 1st killing with self defense because there’s been no allegation of any use of a deadly force against him. And even if there is, he’s got an uphill battle because he certainly came to Kenosha with a certain intent.

In the 2nd killing he’s going to have issues because you cannot be the initial aggressor in a self defense defense. Thus, prosecutors are going to say he waived self defense in the 2nd killing because of the 1st killing AND the fact that you can effectuate a legal citizens arrest (i.e. you can tackle the motherf’r and hold him till police get there) when a person has committed a Felony (even if not in your presence). So the guys who attempted to stop him had a legal right to do so AND you can’t then resist arrest and claim self defense.
Click to expand...

Like I said, these things are complicated. Good thing about murica is that there is this thing called due process. As much as some hate this country, due process is a thing. This kid certainly has an uphill battle. Body part calling aside, unless you have inside knowledge of the case, you have no idea what you are talking about. You may be a lawyer, so maybe I'm wrong, but you don't seem to be one. Comparable force is not a thing, words mean something. Thanks for dumbing it down for me though, I certainly appreciate it. Sounds like you are quite the tough guy, hats off to you. Shouldn't everyone be a law and order "guy". I mean, law and order is good for society in general. Keyboard Rangers like yourself may be the exception.

In the meantime, go and play some soccer.
 
happy9 said:
Like I said, these things are complicated. Good thing about murica is that there is this thing called due process. As much as some hate this country, due process is a thing. This kid certainly has an uphill battle. Body part calling aside, unless you have inside knowledge of the case, you have no idea what you are talking about. You may be a lawyer, so maybe I'm wrong, but you don't seem to be one. Comparable force is not a thing, words mean something. Thanks for dumbing it down for me though, I certainly appreciate it. Sounds like you are quite the tough guy, hats off to you. Shouldn't everyone be a law and order "guy". I mean, law and order is good for society in general. Keyboard Rangers like yourself may be the exception.

In the meantime, go and play some soccer.
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its what our country has become. Intelligent conversation is over.
 
MSK357 said:
Im just saying stats show show healthy people with no comorbidities are good to go to work. healthy young students can go to class. healthy teachers can teach in class. healthy soccer players can play, and healthy coaches can coach. More harm is being done by preventing these things when they are at very little risk. stats and science are on my side. The lock down is hurting not just soccer players but young students, especially the minority and the poor. agree to disagree.
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How do you identify who is actually healthy without testing? Do we just assume? I have an 11 year old and there is no way I am letting him around anyone that I am not 100% convinced is COVID free. When my daughter came home she had just gotten a COVID test and got her results the day she arrived. If she hadn't then she would have been staying in a hotel for 5 days until I was sure. YOU may be willing to risk YOUR child's health because YOU see it as very low risk. Again I am a person of color and I am not willing to risk mine and most people don't want to risk their children either. Especially for what amounts to a recreational activity for 99% of the youth players. I ifeel that way and my child is part of the 1%. As I said before it is a free country but don't be shocked that public officials are acting very conservatively with our public health.

Good luck to you and your player.
 
MSK357 said:
Its about everything including soccer stuck in a half@ssed lockdown where we have restrictions that contradict and dont make any sense.
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Get a hobby. Have your kid learn another language or take up computer programing. Maybe it is just me but I see opportunity in this rare break that we get from the hustle and bustle of pre-pandemic life. I realized how much money I was wasting on BS since this pandemic has started and in the last 5 months of not running around all over the place and I have saved an extra $12k since March.

Embrace it. Love it. These times will pass

Good luck to you and your player.
 
dad4 said:
First, your article blatantly confuses correlation with causation. It refers to NY, NJ, MA, DC and MI to imply that lockdowns cause outbreaks.
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I think your reading skills might be off.
MakeAPlay said:
How do you identify who is actually healthy without testing? Do we just assume? I have an 11 year old and there is no way I am letting him around anyone that I am not 100% convinced is COVID free. When my daughter came home she had just gotten a COVID test and got her results the day she arrived. If she hadn't then she would have been staying in a hotel for 5 days until I was sure. YOU may be willing to risk YOUR child's health because YOU see it as very low risk.
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Actually I asked you about risk a few days ago.

In the US you have about 330 total deaths of people under 24 during covid. That is it. Not Cal...but nationwide.

I am curious as to how you look at that number and think that age group has any risk at all?
 
EOTL said:
Wow. Just wow. This exchange is the best.

Let me explain what @MakeAPlay is too diplomatic to tell you directly. By all accounts, his daughter is succeeding in ways that most parents only dream of for their own, and that’s no accident. No doubt it’s largely attributable to the fact her parents didn’t raise her whining about things outside their control, or to use those things as an excuse for failure. I’m guessing that when someone offered sage advice or help (such as being a mentor), they probably either took it or at least expressed gratitude for the offer. What is your kid learning from your, uh, different perspective? What do children learn from the kind of parent who receives an extremely generous offer for a wildly successful young adult to mentor theirs, and they respond with a barrage of crap trying to prove that they are right that no one has died of C19, it’s really heartburn or some other s**t.

And my god man, your nonsense about how @MakeAPlay doesn’t understand what you and everyone else is going through because his daughter is out of college is embarrassing to those who know she’s the oldest sibling in her family, you dimwit.

Now is time to be a hero to your children. Are you going to turn that frown upside down and be a leader for your family? Or are you going to keep teaching your kid to blame C19, and libs, and HS teachers, and greedy soccer club owners, and the media and the CDC for all of your problems and your refusal to get it together?
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I am trying to be a little more diplomatic. I was helped by a lot of sage advice along the way and my kid had mentors. I am just trying to return the favor.

Continued good fortune to you and your player.
 
Desert Hound said:
I think your reading skills might be off.

Actually I asked you about risk a few days ago.

In the US you have about 330 total deaths of people under 24 during covid. That is it. Not Cal...but nationwide.

I am curious as to how you look at that number and think that age group has any risk at all?
Click to expand...


Thanks for another good belly laugh. You do realized that until there are years of research and studies done to see the long term effects that asymptomatic COVID has on people we have no idea of what the risks are. I am the type that is okay with you taking whatever risks that you want to take with you kids but don't expext everyone else to feel the same way. I am the type that believes that your rights end where my rights begin so as long as MY kid isn't playing against kids that aren't isolated in a bubble then the risk is too high for me.

Let me make it clear to you. There is nothing that you could say that would convince me that youth sports are important enough to risk my kid's long term health. In addition, if my daughter was a senior in college this year and her conference decided to play without a bubble she would be redshirting until there is a RELIABLE vaccine (not a Russian one or a rushed one). This is America and I am perfectly comfortable with you risking your kid's lives. I think the principles of Darwinism would agree that you should be able to have your kid play meaningless games because they only have a slight chance of having a seriuos outcome should they become infected.

Good luck to you and your player.
 
MakeAPlay said:
Thanks for another good belly laugh. You do realized that until there are years of research and studies done to see the long term effects that asymptomatic COVID has on people we have no idea of what the risks are
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That kind of answers my question. You would put things on hold for years.

I am not saying you should go out. Was just asking about perceived risk. You answered it. Thx.
 
I’m glad this was brought up, it is important to understand Myocarditis (from Myocarditis Foundation):

The most common cause of Myocarditis is a Viral Infection. acute Myocarditis is a well known complication of influenza infection. The clinical expression varies from asymptomatic to fulminant myocarditis, which can result in severe hemodynamics dysfunction, necessitating high-dose catechilolamimes and mechanical circulatory support.

Many viruses are associated with myocarditis, including viruses that cause the common cold (of which are 5 existing Covid strains that predate Covid 19), Covid 19, hepatitis B and C, parvovirus and herpes.
 
Desert Hound said:
That kind of answers my question. You would put things on hold for years.

I am not saying you should go out. Was just asking about perceived risk. You answered it. Thx.
Click to expand...

If that is what you got from it. I said I would wait for a reliable COVID vaccine. My kids aren't defined by their sports. Their health and happiness are my two biggest concerns in that order. Health then happiness. The risk is high. 30-35% with myocarditis is a pretty significant risk in my opinion.

Good luck to you and your player.
 
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